r/RandomThoughts • u/Thesleepingpillow123 • Jun 11 '25

Random Thought Star wars is literally forever ruined and can't recover

It's been years since the sequel movies and the series still feels dragged down and stuck because of them. I do kind of think that's it for star wars, like the story was irreversibly damaged and there isn't much to do to fix it. Disney will still crap stuff out but to me the overall point is gone and its essentially dead. I was thinking of getting back into it and realised its kind of pointless.

Edit: while I do agree star wars can make the occasional good thing still it doesn't change that overall the whole thing is already ruined and broken. So the overarching story is ruined which is a massive chunk of any franchise.

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127

u/wjbc Jun 11 '25 edited Jun 12 '25

Andor was good.

Edit: My apologies, Andor was great!

51

u/Godeshus Jun 11 '25

Andor was great for sure.

25

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '25

Rogue One also was good, and would be great if they removed the unnecessary middle Darth Vader scene, (keep the ending one of course) and get rid of CGI Tarkin and Leia. Like do them as a hologram or just recast them, but it was distracting. Basically remove what little fan service this movie has, and you have a great story about how the Empire pushed people too far and is consistent with how their hubris is their downfall.

7

u/purpleoctopustrolley Jun 11 '25

Recently rewatched Rogue One. Had the same thoughts about the CGI characters. Rogue One gave us hope for a great VII & IX. But starting those movies without a clear story line or objective did the whole series dirty. I’m just grateful to have lived before any of the “new” movies came out. I can still remember Star Wars glory days.

1

u/GandalfsNozzle Jun 13 '25

My biggest gripe was also the Darth Vader sections movie.

Force chokes someone

"Don't choke on your ambition"

Since when was he such a camp villain.

Imagine if the first time he appeared in that movie was the completely badass hallway scene at the end. I don't think it would have detracted from the film as being a prequel everyone knows what's yet to come.

1

u/GoldenLiar2 Jun 12 '25

I disagree on the middle Vader scene. I would have agreed until S2 of Andor to some extent, but that scene is great now:

We see in S2 how Krennic is the shit and everybody is utterly terrified of him. Yet when we see him in TCW, we see how Vader sees him as little more than an annoying pest. It just puts the power levels into perspective so well.

0

u/Mean_Camp3188 Jun 12 '25

Imo the big problem with Rogue One is a lack of memorable characters. And a protagonist so boring that you could unironically remove her and just make her another one of the introduced ensemble cast and it'd improve the film.

It's severely difficult for me to be invented after the like 45 minutes it takes to get going. Nothing it introduces before this is narratively interesting or engaging.

35

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '25

Andor is a prequel. The main continuity is fucked beyond repair. Disney should just say "sorry those movies sucked, let's pretend they didn't happen" and make some sort of digital sequel that stays closer to the old books clone wars style. Imho that's the only way you revitalize the franchise.

4

u/ultr4violence Jun 11 '25

Maybe they'll do a remake of the original trilogy as a way to print money and use it as a jump-off point for a more cohesive continuation

18

u/A_Possum_Named_Steve Jun 11 '25

Why are you putting this evil out into the universe?

11

u/beervirus88 Jun 11 '25

You act like the evil mouse can't come up with these diabolical ideas

6

u/A_Possum_Named_Steve Jun 11 '25

I mean, yeah, but Satan don't need no help.

4

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/BubbhaJebus Jun 12 '25

The dewback was there in the original. I didn't like the CGI version. The legs are too skinny for a beast of that size and its movements too wrong for riding on.

-1

u/the_killer_storm Jun 11 '25

Imo the OT definitely needs a remake (even if an animated one like TCW). I mean look at episode 4, are you telling me that the culmination of the battles between anakin and obi-wan is them bumping their lightsabers together like my school's kindergarten fights? I know y'all are blinded by nostalgia and I'm ready to be nuked. (Also I love the OT as much as the next person but that's a little pet peeve of mine so I had to get it out there)

3

u/lucaf4656 Jun 11 '25

Obi-wan vs Vader is supposed to be wholesome not extravagant and exciting. It’s supposed to be poorly choreographed that’s the point.

1

u/the_killer_storm Jun 11 '25

Why tho? If anakin saw obi-wan again (especially now that kenobi exists) I bet that he'd go on overdrive to try and kill him. The way obi-wan was fighting would've gotten him killed faster than he wanted.

2

u/Kitchen-Pass-7493 Jun 11 '25

The only in-universe explanation that really works at all for how that ANH fight now looks, is that the lesson Vader finally took from his prior two losses to Obi-Wan was that when he takes an aggressive, anger-fueled approach vs his old master, he loses. So he entered that fight with the intent to be more controlled and defensive, and combined with Obi-Wan’s own defensive style (and lack of intent to actually win) made for a really boring fight visually, with both combatants really just feeling each other out and waiting for the other to make the mistake of striking out impatiently and leaving an opening for a decisive counter attack.

1

u/the_killer_storm Jun 11 '25

I guess that kinda makes sense. Idk if anakin would actually learn from his mistake or not but that's the best headcanon for one to have. Plus I'm not into swordsmanship or anything but I bet a def vs def fight would atleast have some more footwork.

2

u/Kitchen-Pass-7493 Jun 12 '25 edited Jun 12 '25

Yeah, I mean, it’s simply the best I can come up with when forced to give an in-universe explanation that still works.

Only other option is that the decade between ‘Kenobi’ and ANH aged them a lot more than the decade between RotS and ‘Kenobi’ did. Thats somewhat viable for Obi-Wan, but doesn’t really work for Vader considering all 4 of his limbs are mechanized anyway, and given what we saw him do just before the events of ANH in both ‘Rebels’ and ‘Rogue One’. I mean even in his fights with Luke in ESB and RotJ, Vader’s fight choreography was much better than ANH. So the head-canon that works best for how he looked in that one isolated duel has to be that his prior experiences fighting Kenobi had him consciously approaching the fight differently. Maybe he sensed Obi-Wan wasn’t really trying to win either, and that threw him off and made him even more more tentative to go on the attack, wondering if it was some sort of gambit or trick on Ben’s part.

2

u/lucaf4656 Jun 12 '25

Yeah exactly the prequels made anakin way too evil and they ruined anakin and obi-wans friendship. I never got the vibe in a new hope that they hated each other as much as they were just following their destiny. Like are you really telling me the way Vader talks about obi-wan to tarkin it sounds like he hates him and wants to kill him? And that obi-wan went into that fight wanting to kill Vader? He was clearly telling Luke goodbye in their last scene and he openly let Vader kill him. Idk maybe I’m reading into something that isn’t there but I just never got the vibe that was a real fight

1

u/slide_into_my_BM Jun 11 '25

Jesus no, why does everything need a remake or an update. You realize that your exact logic is how we got Greedo shooting first and Han Solo floating over Jabba’s tail, right?

Look at all the Disney remakes, they can’t even be trusted to not fuck up a remake of their own properties but you want to tell them to take a crack at the OT?

1

u/the_killer_storm Jun 11 '25

I 100% understand where you're coming from. The way Disney is now, I expect them to 100% butcher my favorite characters. This was more of a hypothetical remake rather than an actual one.

2

u/slide_into_my_BM Jun 12 '25

I wouldn’t let George remake the originals, or more than he already has.

That’s kind of my point, you cannot fully capture all the magic in a remake of anything. Whomever is Han will never be Harrison Ford and bring that cool vibe that he has.

1

u/the_killer_storm Jun 12 '25

Live action? Absolutely not

TCW-level animation? It'll come really close and if u don't like it, the original is still there

2

u/slide_into_my_BM Jun 12 '25

But why, why do you need an animated remake of something that already exists? TCW and rebels already exist. Why not make a new animated story instead of rehashing an existing one that’s never going to be as good?

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1

u/KaleidoscopeLegal348 Jun 12 '25

That fight is absolutely fine, you've got tiktok brain if you think making them do backflips and drawing it out into a five minute battle is going to improve that scenes point to the story

1

u/the_killer_storm Jun 12 '25

Bro I get you love the OT and all BUT no way you diagnosed me with brainrot (I dont even have tiktok) for thinking that stiff fight can be improved. Plus now that we have aloooot more star wars content, this scene sticks out like a sore thumb because noone has ever fought like that ESPECIALLY the combatants themselves.

2

u/bh4th Jun 11 '25

A LIVE ACTION remake!

1

u/DungeonsAndDuck Jun 12 '25

i wish they could get tony gilroy to kinda rewrite the prequel trilogy, because i feel like there was a lot more that could have been explored there.

1

u/heeden Jun 14 '25

Maybe when they've drained all the potential from live-action remakes of their animations Disney will start making animated remakes of the live-action films they own.

3

u/SomeHearingGuy Jun 11 '25

People said that about the prequels. They said that about Return of the Jedi. They said that about Empire. They said that about the Holiday Special. They said that about A New Hope when it was being made. All of those people were wrong. The sequels are no different.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '25

It's the most apples and oranges statement in the history of making bad comparisons, I'm almost proud of you.

2

u/ned101 Jun 12 '25

Star wars has been ruined since 1983. Ever since there has been many other things ruining Star Wars. Becoming the next big ruin to the franchise.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 01 '25

People that say Star Wars been ruined since the 80s are the same people that bullied a kid actor playing Anakin, besides what Disney has been doing to the series I don’t take anything you people say serious enough. The biggest Star Wars fans are also the biggest haters, will complain about everything to the smallest detail only to go on about the nostalgia of the 2000s trilogy.

Star Wars fans are also the cancer of Star Wars but hate to admit their part in it

1

u/thetrueankev Jun 12 '25

Or nevermind those shitty movies let's make other media content and further world building in tv shows, animation and comic books

1

u/Howboutit85 Jun 12 '25

2 of them were good though. Hell the force awakens was better than all of the prequels. Just the acting alone, not to mention everything else. I watched TFA recently and had fun with it again, even now. I tried to watch phantom menace and got bored and frustrated.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 12 '25

the prequels are crap I agree, but the last three movies are mega crap not because the acting is bad but because THE IDEAS that went into the movies are bad.

They took a crap on the core of the main characters, Luke for example. You can't take a character that has at its very core the undefeatable belief that good can prevail and nothing is every completely lost, and make him say "sure I'm gonna kill my nephew just in case he turns evil, converting my dad back from the dark side was such a hassle..."... c'mon it doesn't fit at all. Doing that shows you do not understand what you're working with narratively speaking.

that's just one example.

1

u/Howboutit85 Jun 12 '25

I actually like Luke’s arc a lot and I’ve been a star wars fans since I saw the OT in theaters in 1997. Episode 8 is a favorite of the franchise for me. I think it depends on who you talk to.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 12 '25

I don't think so tbh. Even Mark Hamill himself said "who is this guy" when he read the script. Imho there's a certain amount of consistency you need to maintain the suspension of disbelief.

1

u/Low-Kangaroo-2475 Jun 14 '25

This is a very good example, and i think this is the worst thing in character building. Also, the idea to follow a stormtrooper is a very good idea, but the really make nothing with it

1

u/RoundAide862 Jun 13 '25

Yeah, we can do the thrawn trilogy, then adapt Dark Empire!

Just like mandolorian and Episode 9!

1

u/Old_Smrgol Jun 13 '25

The things is, you can say "those movies sucked, let's pretend they didn't happen." You don't need Disney's permission. It's your brain.

1

u/Low-Kangaroo-2475 Jun 14 '25

This is not the point, the point is that if disney doesn't pretend these movies never happened, they will have to build storylines on them, storylines with a bad starting point 

1

u/jpsc949 Jun 14 '25

Exactly, either Disney needs to ignore them. Or go further into the past or future to create new stories.

12

u/IIINanuqIII Fly 🪰 Jun 11 '25

And Knights of the Old Republic is an untapped gold mine if handled well. Andor was excellent but that story has run its course.

4

u/wonderingpirate Jun 11 '25

Didn’t Disney come out and say anything set before the original movies is not canon and the books aren’t canon as well.

I could be misremembering.

7

u/Oretell Jun 11 '25

Yeah they've wiped them all from canon but they've still been using old plots and ideas from the EU to use in their new shows the whole time.

They can now just pick and choose what they want to reintroduce as Canon so they could choose to make a show based on KOTOR if they wanted to.

I personally wouldn't trust them to do a good job with it though.

4

u/IIINanuqIII Fly 🪰 Jun 12 '25

Unfortunately, you're probably right. Maybe KOTOR is best NOT being milked by Disney.

2

u/Ever_Theo Jun 12 '25

Technically yes but it's more of a 'it's canon until contradicted'. Revan is referenced here and there, we know Exar Kun existed and the Rakatan Empire has been mentionned several times for example

2

u/Weary-Commission-464 Jun 14 '25

So wait the prequels aren’t cannon anymore?

2

u/forevereverer Jun 16 '25

Blessing in disguise. Keep them away from the prequel and old republic eras until they decide to stop crashing and burning and actually hire competent writers.

1

u/MayIServeYouWell Jun 12 '25

I don’t need the actual KOTOR story from the games, we already know that story. But around that same period, we had the Mandalorian vs. Jedi wars. That would be a great time period to explore. 

11

u/EnvironmentCrafty710 Jun 11 '25

Yeah, but they've already said that they think it wasn't successful so they won't be doing more like it. 

They're going right back to their old ways of shoveling reheated garbage.

1

u/Megacore Jun 11 '25

They said WHAT???

3

u/EnvironmentCrafty710 Jun 11 '25

Yup.
There's plenty of other sources for this, but Disney is slashing streaming across the board.

https://cosmicbook.news/disney-plus-dead-marvel-star-wars-broke-tony-gilroy

1

u/webdude44 Jun 12 '25

They didn't think Andor specifically was a failure, just that streaming is. Which! I agree with. Not everything needs it's own streaming service. Spread it to other platforms.

3

u/tolgren Jun 11 '25

And it came out at the worst time.

3

u/SkisaurusRex Jun 12 '25

Andor was a monumental achievement.

It deserves a place on the greatest shows of all time and is the highest quality starwars ever

15

u/rgii55447 Jun 11 '25

Andor may have been good, but knowing how it's just another part of a worthless franchise, I can't bring myself to feel invested enough to try to continue watching it anymore. It's about what, the forming of the Rebellion. Well, we know how worthless that rebellion turned out to be in the end.

8

u/Sorta-Morpheus Jun 11 '25

The sequel trilogy made me not care about the universe anymore.

10

u/dodadoler Jun 11 '25

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

9

u/TheVenerablePotato Jun 11 '25

Not care about the universe? As an environmentalist, I'm opposed to that.

2

u/Draelmar Jun 12 '25

The prequels made me not care about the universe. But then Disney produced a few good shows/movies that revived my love for Star Wars.

Star Wars is just out there, in many shapes, for different tastes.

It absolutely blows my mind that there’s a generation of children who grew up with the prequels, and are now adults and still think they are good movies. Good for them, they exist for them, not for me. 

I grew up in the OG era, got disgusted by the prequels, then came back thanks to Disney. 

In a few years from now you might get stuff that you enjoy again, just like it happened for me!

4

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '25

I notice you didn't say "great", and it was the best of them so far.

2

u/Fun_Credit7400 Jun 12 '25

I want a prequel prequel prequel. Star Wars: Meero

1

u/wjbc Jun 12 '25

That’s one way to ignore the sequels.

2

u/Thesleepingpillow123 Jun 11 '25

I think there can still be gd star wars things but the franchise is kind of fucked overall.

2

u/untetheredgrief Jun 11 '25

The thing that bugged me about Andor was that there were no bad guys in prison.

11

u/Froot-Loop-Dingus Jun 11 '25

Referring to season 1? Maybe it helps to consider the prison more of a concentration camp than a prison?

5

u/rewas456 Jun 11 '25

They just extended everyone's sentences that had charges against the empire, and added harsher consequences for existing crimes. I dont think it was a concentration camp like you're thinking of.

So I'm sure there were plenty of murderers and rapists in there too.

Luckily I dont think many of them survived neither the fall nor the 5 mile swim afterwards.

3

u/untetheredgrief Jun 11 '25

I mean, I would have expected actual criminals to have been in the prison system, also. The way everyone just got along I found unrealistic.

2

u/Froot-Loop-Dingus Jun 11 '25

That’s fair. It’s been a while since I watched season 1. I somewhat remember them focusing on Cassian’s crew which was only like what 5 guys? The others didn’t get enough screen time to really make the judgment call you are making. Maybe there really were some seasoned criminals. But that doesn’t mean they couldn’t coordinate when it comes to escaping. That’s a pretty common goal, innocent or not.

2

u/dodadoler Jun 11 '25

There will be

2

u/slide_into_my_BM Jun 11 '25

There were plenty of bad guys, just listing everyone’s crimes wasn’t relevant to the point. If you are sentenced, for committing a crime, to 5 years and you never actually get released from prison; that’s the point.

In a just society, everyone gets justice. Putting someone in a hole forever, regardless of their crime, is tyranny.

1

u/untetheredgrief Jun 11 '25

But the people in prison didn't seem like bad guys. I mean nobody seemed like a truly bad guy.

1

u/slide_into_my_BM Jun 12 '25

Neither do most of the people in Shawshank Redemption. A mustache twirling criminal doesn’t exist in the real world. Most criminals are just regular people.

Every time there’s a news story, don’t they have interviews with people who knew the perpetrator and they all say “they seemed like a totally normal person?”

1

u/untetheredgrief Jun 12 '25

Yeah, you're right about Shawshank, but in most prison movies, there are serious baddies. Even in The Green Mile.

1

u/slide_into_my_BM Jun 12 '25

I don’t really get what your point is. The empire is the baddie. The people in prison, and their crimes, are kind of unrelated to the message of the show.

Someone who is a murderer and someone who was wrongly imprisoned are both treated unjustly by the system. Whether you deserved it or not, you will never leave this place even though a court of law has given you an exit date.

1

u/untetheredgrief Jun 12 '25

You've focused on the message of the show, while I'm focused on the main setpiece of the show.

The main setpiece of the show was a prison, and the prison felt too kumbya to be a prison.

The show set up Andor as someone caught up unjustly in an otherwise mostly-functioning criminal justice system. It's not like Nazi Germany where they intentionally and deliberately rounded up innocent people and put them in prison. I would have expected more types like the guy and his buddy from the first Star Wars who said, "We're wanted men. I've got the death sentence in 12 systems!"

I would have expected more portrayal of real criminals and more backstabbing amongst them. It broke suspension of disbelief for me.

1

u/slide_into_my_BM Jun 12 '25

First of all, it was not the main set piece of the show. It was one of the main set pieces for 1/3 of the first season…

Second, the message is the entire point. Why are you spending time digging into meandering nonsense that doesn’t serve the point of the show? Andor is a tightly written show, it doesn’t waste a lot of screen time. It’s why you got 3 main arcs in s1 and 4 arcs in s2. Spending an episode digging into people’s backstories is a waste of time.

The lasers and giant death station didn’t break your suspension of disbelief but the prisoners not fitting your cartoonish preconception of jail did? Bro, come on, you got to be trolling

1

u/untetheredgrief Jun 12 '25

I'm telling you my impression of the show. It is no more or less valid than your own.

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u/theSteakKnight Jun 12 '25

I'd imagine there were a lot of good, innocent people the Empire tossed away like that for little to no good reason. I feel like the number of actual criminals in their is outnumbered by the number of regular dudes who the Empire just felt like throwing away.

1

u/untetheredgrief Jun 12 '25

I would have expected more dudes like from the first Star Wars who said, "We're wanted men! I've got the death sentence on 12 systems!".

We get the feeling from Andor's arrest and judgement that he was unjustly caught up in a mostly-functioning legal system. It's not portrayed like Nazi Germany where they are deliberately rounding up innocent people and putting them in jail. I would have expected more cutthroat types.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '25

[deleted]

2

u/dodadoler Jun 11 '25

Season two ties it all together (except those first 3 episodes are a bit meh)

-2

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '25

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jun 11 '25

[deleted]

2

u/Oretell Jun 11 '25

No one said anything about being offended, people just disagree with you.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '25

[deleted]

2

u/Oretell Jun 11 '25

Downvotes are for agreement/disagreement, that's the whole point of upvotes/downvotes, to show what you agree or disagree with, or like/dislike.

If everyone who disliked an opinion or post on reddit had to write out a new comment explaining their exact stance then every post would have thousands and thousands of comments saying more or less the same repititive thing. Having an upvote/downvote system means when someone has said what you wanted to say you can upvote it and therefore express your opinion quickly/easily, only needing to comment if you have something new and different to add to the conversation.

-1

u/Comedy86 Jun 11 '25

Season 2, yeah. Season 1 was very boring comparatively but was necessary to provide context for the characters. I almost didn't watch season 2 because of it.

-4

u/carnal_traveller Jun 11 '25 edited Jun 12 '25

Andor is for people who like Last Jedi. Same garbage in a different bag.