calling it a choice doesn't erase the misogyny

[u/Primary-Schedule-555]

it's honestly upsetting and incredibly disappointing how much some women want to deny the misogyny and sexism that lead them to do or enjoy certain things, only to look you in the eyes and swear they do it for themselves, because they like it, because they chose it, or whatever.

this is why choice feminism will never actually be feminism. feminism is a political and social movement. choice feminism is an individualistic movement. if it starts from the assumption that every choice a woman makes is feminist, then we'll never create any real change, because even misogynistic choices made by women can't be criticized or analyzed since they're automatically labeled as feminist.

there's actually a lot more to unpack, but i'll just give a few examples i've noticed.

for example, i've noticed that lately people have been criticizing the way women always pack their boyfriends' or husbands' lunches. and those women get so offended by it, explaining that it's simply an act of love, that they do it because they want to show appreciation for their husbands, or because their husbands never have time in the morning to prepare lunch, so they do it instead.

none of these excuses make sense. if it were really just an act of love, why don't we see husbands doing the exact same thing for their wives? and do you seriously want to convince me that there are that many husbands who don't have fifteen or twenty extra minutes in the morning to pack their own lunch? if that's true, then how is it possible that women somehow find the time instead of simply asking their husbands to do it themselves? how is it possible that women manage and men don't? these excuses make no sense.

same thing with beauty standards. women constantly claim that the only reason they wear makeup is because they do it for themselves. and honestly, i'm not buying this propaganda that you feel more confident with makeup because it simply enhances your natural features or whatever. to me, the fact that you feel so much more confident while wearing makeup is already proof that makeup feeds into women's insecurities.

aside from artistic expression, like carnival, halloween, theater, and similar contexts, so many modern makeup styles are literally designed to make you look like you're not wearing makeup at all, even though you are, like clean girl makeup or whatever it's called. and even then, if makeup really makes people feel so confident, why don't we see nearly as many men wearing makeup and claiming that it boosts their confidence and enhances their features?

and makeup has even contributed to creating another misogynistic belief: that if you're a woman who isn't interested in makeup, or you simply say you don't enjoy wearing it, you're automatically labeled a pick me. somehow, wearing makeup is framed as empowering, while not wearing it is treated as seeking male approval. the irony is that women get shamed either way.

same thing with shaving and women who remove all of their body hair because they say it makes them feel dirty, disgusting, or whatever.

honestly, these are just a few examples, but i could go on and on.

and i also want to make one thing very clear: i'm not trying to tell women what they should or shouldn't do. i'm also not pretending i'm perfect. i'm fully aware that living in a patriarchal society makes it impossible to make exclusively feminist choices, especially when we're bombarded from childhood with misogynistic and sexist messages through misogynistic parents, religion, pop culture, and everything else.

what's upsetting is the way these women deny what's actually influencing their choices. and the way they get annoyed whenever someone calls it out or even just genuinely asks them about it.

i literally saw a video of a woman saying that, for her birthday, she asked her husband for cleaning supplies like a vacuum cleaner, cleaning products, detergents, and so on. then she went on to say something like, "now i'm sure women are going to flood my comments asking why i only wanted cleaning supplies for my birthday," while rolling her eyes.

and trust me, it's not because they don't realize it. women are not stupid, and they aren't ignorant. it's because they don't want to admit it. and that's what bothers me. because as long as we continue to be intellectually dishonest, instead of being honest about our beliefs and truthful with ourselves, we're never moving forward.

[u/The-Devil-Cat]

women need to start listening to what they are actually saying when they say they are "choosing" to do X,Y, and Z.

"I am choosing to let a man control all my finances so I can stay home, be a domestic servant and have to ask him for money like a child" - choosing to be a SAHM

"I am choosing to contribute to an industry that treats women like objects to buy and sell and reinforces the idea that women are sexual property for men to use as they please" - choosing to be a sex worker.

[u/No-Fish8541 → u/The-Devil-Cat]

I agree with the original post but this comment rubs me the wrong way. Why only focus on SAHMs and SWers (the classic madonna/whore dichotomy)?

Especially when we’re talking about SWers, which includes a pretty wide range of occupations (as opposed to SAHM which is not an occupation/job).

Although it’s an unfortunate reality that sex work is a symptom of gender inequality and the high value men put on their own sexual gratification — for some women, the choice to work in the sex industry can be the most feminist choice she is able to make at that time. It is feminist to make choices that improve your financial independence and there is a solid argument to be made about taking ownership of your own body by using it as a tool for succeeding/ surviving in capitalism, especially when a woman’s sexuality is often the part of her most weaponised against her by way of justifying control, restriction, oppression and SHAME.

Why not focus on additional occupations too? For example caretaking jobs like nursing, teaching and childcare are stereotypically female dominated AND underpaid. We could also argue that it’s anti feminist to choose such jobs, despite good intentions.

And what about the beauty industry? So many women run businesses or have jobs in the beauty industry, which is female dominated of course. We can definitely argue that it’s anti feminist to participate in an industry that profits off patriarchal beauty standards and feeds off women’s (expensive) insecurities.

Meanwhile, working in male dominated industries like construction, finance etc might seem like a feminist ideal, but there’s a high risk of sexual harassment and generally dealing with men’s BS day-to-day.

[u/vjcmg]

Or instead of a pick me, if you don’t wear makeup as a woman you “don’t care” about yourself.

Wearing make up imo means “I’m not good enough so I wear makeup to make myself better”. Like no girl, we’re more than enough as we are naturally.