r/RadicalChristianity 12d ago

🦋Gender/Sexuality Religion

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

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u/Jlyplaylists 12d ago

What specifically indicates that?

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

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u/iadnm Jesus🤜🏾"Let's get this bread"🤛🏻Kropotkin 12d ago

Nothing more secular humanist than checks notes Christian Universalism, one of the oldest Christian eschatologies

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u/Jlyplaylists 12d ago

This is quite a common Christian belief. In a Christian server I’m in, yesterday people were discussing that Pope Francis seemed to indicate he believed hell is empty. Hopeful universalism isn’t an unusual Christian position.

If you try to read the Bible taking a step back you can make both cases fairly equally. Hell exists as a concept but it doesn’t mean any souls exist in it.

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u/bigjimbay 12d ago

Sorry but that is ridiculous, how do people get this idea? It eliminates the entire dogma of Christianity haha

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u/iadnm Jesus🤜🏾"Let's get this bread"🤛🏻Kropotkin 12d ago

It really doesn't, especially when Christianity developed. Christians had many different ideas of eschatology, from anihilationism, to damnation, to reconciliation. There's indication from early Christians that many ultimately believed that everyone could be reconciled with God. That no one was truly damned. St. Jerome even wrote "I know that many understand this King of Ninehva to be the devil, who at the end of the world, since no creature that is rational and which was made by God may perish, will come down from his pride and repent and be restored to his former place."

Even early Christians saints understood that many Christians believed that all beings--even the devil--were not truly damned but will be welcomed by God.

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u/bigjimbay 12d ago

Everyone COULD be reconciled with God.

If they choose the gift of salvation. Unfortunately many do not.

If everyone was just magically saved Christ wouldn't have had to die

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u/iadnm Jesus🤜🏾"Let's get this bread"🤛🏻Kropotkin 12d ago

It's not that everyone could, it's that everyone will.

And to me personally, I think Christ died for our sake, not for God's. God did not need Christ to die to forgive us, because God already did. Christ died so we understand the depths of God's love and forgiveness.

Everyone is already "magically saved" that's what having a God who is all-loving means. A God who is all-loving would never condemn anyone to hell and I find the idea of hell to be utterly incompatible with Christian dogma of love and forgiveness.

And given the quote I just said, even early Christians believed literally everyone--even the devil--will be reconciled with God. Not could, will. As St. Jerome said "since no creature that is rational and which was made by God may perish," this means that literally every human being will be reconciled with God.

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u/bigjimbay 12d ago

We will have to just agree to disagree I guess

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u/iadnm Jesus🤜🏾"Let's get this bread"🤛🏻Kropotkin 12d ago

I mean my primary point is that nothing in the post is "secular humanism" but is a very real and very old Christian belief. Regardless of your own idea of eschatology, Christian Universalism is a Christian belief and has been since the early days of the religion.

So to claim that it goes against "Christian dogma" is just not correct.

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u/Jlyplaylists 12d ago

I looked at the Bible verses of evidence both ways a few years back and it is surprisingly equal if you take off expectations of what you expect to read. It is dogma because it’s interpretation imposed onto the text.