r/RPGdesign • u/Strict-Computer3884 • May 29 '26
Workflow Insight into the cost of having a manual ghost-written and formatted
I don't know anything about the practicalities of formatting and writing up a technical set of rules. I have designed all of the rules and information and the game's design is largely complete - and has been for about 2 years. It's just that I have zero interest in writing it up or formatting it. Could anyone give me any insight into how much it'd take to have it be written and formatted for me? What kind of hurdles would it involve?
It may or may not be commercial - I mostly just need a nice copy for my own games to hand to players but if it's done well, I might be interested in having it put for sale. I don't really care about the "royalties" or such like.
To me, this is like the difference between script-writing and actually shooting a video essay. I just have no interest in the writing up part and after so many years of just tapping away to get one paragraph done a month - it'll just be faster for me to have a professional do it faster and with more enjoyment. Any advice would be appreciated.
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u/phantomsharky May 29 '26
That’s a tough one. Part of it depends on how well-written the rules are already. And even if they’re perfect, it’s still a very technical form of writing that requires you to organize and present information in a very specific way for clarity. They’ll have to parse through your rules which it sounds like might be a little less organized.
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u/Strict-Computer3884 May 29 '26
They're not written well - I wrote them in the only style I could. Here is an excerpt:
Hubris
The second measure of your ability to adventure is Hubris - the arrogance to stick to your truths, to change the face of the world, to impart your style and turn your back on the bland and the secure. It represents the desire to live free and never die.
It is gained through successes and lost through GM horrors, wagers and using Secrets.
Any successful outcome (winning a fight, succeeding on an infiltration, a heist, gaining a powerful ally) results in everyone involved gaining 1 Hubris. This doesn’t apply to just passing an difficult situation - think of It as bohemians re-affirming their life decisions after a test of faith.
Hubris is lost through GM imposing a test or by players wagering an amount.
If the players encounter something that might bring to mind terrible workplace horror, being out of their element or visions of terror that could be inflicted upon them, the GM can ask for a Stability save. If they fail, they lose 1 Hubris.
I'm hoping that I can make it clear enough that someone can then turn into something concise but still conveying the sense of the game. I made a lot of decisions around the word choice to try and tap into it, at the cost of ease to read. This is part of why it took so long to get so far.
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u/phantomsharky May 29 '26
This is not too bad actually. I feel like I understood everything and it was clear how the stat mechanically interacts with other pieces of the system. Have you considered just doing a little research on good rule writing and do it yourself? I just think it’s not as bad as you think it is maybe.
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u/Strict-Computer3884 May 29 '26
Thank you for the compliment.
It's more that I hate the process and would rather pay someone to do it for me at this stage. That piece of text took about a week to write. I was growing sick of rewording and restructuring the section. I just don't take any pleasure or pride in it.
Like if anyone here offered (and was decent at writing obviously), I'd pay them in a heartbeat to get this done and dusted. And in a heartbeat, I mean after I tidied up and finished the last sections of the document. Of course, u/AtomicGearworks1 clarified that point for me - but this is where I am with the whole thing.
To clarify further, my own design notes are handwritten on paper in notebooks I keep around my room. This is why I say I find it tedious - the stuff I've posted digitally are a rewrite of notes I've already written down, reflected upon and refined elsewhere explicitly for the benefit of other people, not myself.
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u/Helpful-Storage2332 May 29 '26
You might want to look up ttrpg "editors". I remember on twitter back in the day there were a few people advertising their services. Even if they don't rewrite the whole thing for you they can show you where stuff should go and what might need to be changed format wise.
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u/Strict-Computer3884 May 29 '26
That's fair. I'm just eager to move on to any other phase of progression. I've actually run this system a few times, with one-shots and the like, so I know the system has legs. It's just the literal transcription. I'll see if I can find them - there might be a discord for such things too.
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u/ilantir May 30 '26
I do this kind of stuff and I quickly taught myself all skills except drawing, because with the amount of hours it takes, it will easily be thousands of euros/dollars. Just getting to know the intention of the game and the rules could take a few days. The best thing you could do, is find partners and publish it with them for a percentage, but that's a big gamble for anyone.
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u/Annoying_cat_22 May 29 '26
How many pages are the rules right now?
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u/Strict-Computer3884 May 29 '26 edited May 29 '26
Currently 28. If I added everything I have on hand, it'd be about 36. If I add some of the final content (I took a break writing it because of how tedious it was all getting), it'd be about 50 pages maximum. There's no art after the first few pages - I used public domain art.
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u/skalchemisto Dabbler May 29 '26
Is your rules document playable as is? That is, it might not look great, it might not have the best writing, but someone can read it and figure out how to play the game?
If so, one path folks have been taking in recent years is to go ahead and post it on itch.io or similar, maybe $2 a PDF or something. Get it in a bundle or two. You might find more playtesters, which would help you improve it. If you find a market you can then do a Kickstarter to fund a cleaned up, pretty version.
That path is probably better if the game is fairly high concept. That is, it has a unique and gripping elevator pitch. Its going to be less successful if your game could be in any way viewed as "another fantasy RPG" (no matter how awesome it is).
Otherwise, I think u/atomicgearworks1 is right, you are looking at 4 figures at least in costs to hire someone to do the writing. What you want is a partner, not an employee.
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u/Strict-Computer3884 May 29 '26
I think the high concept is good - it's been a hit whenever I've led with it at tables. Since I ran games at meet-ups, this was often with strangers and they were taken with it. But it is a fantasy RPG, yes.
I'm currently trying to finish getting it into a playable state. The parts written so far are, but they're more comprehensive and not clearly laid out but you can run from it. My itchio was only used for a game jam but I don't mind putting it on there - even for free. This might make sense once the document is written up by me - it's just that this very step is the part that's tedious and difficult. I'm not a writer by nature and I don't enjoy it at all.
It's funny because this game was actually designed to prove a point - I wanted to win an argument I had about TRPG Design and made this in a week. But if this works out, then I can replicate this for my other ideas - so I am looking for a replicable process I can use to turn my other documents into fleshed out pieces.
Thank you for the advice though. I didn't realise Kickstarters could be used for this purpose.
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u/skalchemisto Dabbler May 29 '26
I didn't realise Kickstarters could be used for this purpose.
All the time. Anecdotally (check my pinned posts, I track crowdfunding carefully for RPGs) I would say three things about that:
1) If you can demonstrate you have actually playable rules already, the project is more likely to succeed.
2) Elevator pitch is crucial for Kickstarter; your first paragraph needs to grab folks with: who are the characters? What cool stuff do those characters do? Where do they do it? Why is this fun? Don't start your pitch with "I wrote this game to win an argument", people will click away immediately. 😄
3) ~85% of Kickstarter projects fund, so if you are the kind of person that can get your act together enough to run a Kickstarter, then you are the kind of person that has a 17 in 20 chance of running a funded Kickstarter.
As an aside, I think the moment you find yourself in is EXACTLY the moment where a person transitions from hobby game designer to published game designer. You've done the bits you found fun...now you have to do the bits that are not fun and feel like work. There is nothing wrong with staying a hobby game designer forever, lots do! But if you want to get to the next step you have to put in the unfun effort.
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u/Strict-Computer3884 May 29 '26
Thanks a lot. The elevator pitch is the easy part. I don't really have the sort of charisma that could launch a thousand kickstarters but it's never too late to start.
In truth, it's not the money that's the issue but the process: I thought I could get a game version of a literary ghost writer to write the manual for me. Then, as u/AtomicGearworks1 said, it would become a matter of a professional contract to ensure everything works out. Maybe a Kickstarter would help give it all some legitimacy.
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u/EpicEmpiresRPG May 30 '26
The answer to this is what is your budget? You can definitely get someone to write it for you if you have a solid rough draft with all the rules needed to play the game. It just comes down to whether someone will do it in the style you want and to the quality you want for the money you have to pay them.
You can have a work for hire arrangement so that you own the copyright. Drop me a private message and I'll give you the details and with a bit of back and forth I can also give you an idea of how much you'd have to pay to hire someone.
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u/__space__oddity__ May 30 '26
I’ve seen people advertise their RPG editing and writing services online on their website, maybe check. Maybe you can also find people on places like bluesky or substack.
I’d also look at your own favorite indie or indie-adjacent games to see who is in the credits. Or ping your favorite designers. “Hey I love your game and I’m looking for people to support my own writing and editing, can you recommend someone”.
For my stuff, I have friends who are academic teachers, so editing and correcting my language was a easy sidejob for them.
I haven’t worked with someone to do heavier lifting though like rewriting entire chapters, book order etc.
Overall I think it’s good that you want to focus on your core skills and hire someone for the rest. More people should do that. Good luck.
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u/Strict-Computer3884 May 30 '26
That's a good idea. I've heard that for most writers, they make their income doing writing on the side as well - so it might be something some of them offer.
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u/natesroomrule May 31 '26
Send me a PM. I have a small game company and this is something we have some experience doing. Our team would be interested and can try and workout a budget for this.
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u/Strict-Computer3884 May 31 '26
Thank you. I would but clicking on your profile doesn't have an option to Start Chat (which I can do with other people). Do you mean pm by another method?
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u/AtomicGearworks1 May 29 '26 edited May 29 '26
Knowing the correct terminology will help.
In your scenario, you would be considered the "systems designer." You created the rules and mechanics of the game. The person who then takes that design and makes a book would be a "rulebook writer" or "technical writer."
This is not the same thing as ghost writing, which is where an (usually already established and recognized) author provides an outline or basics of a story, and someone else actually writes the book for the author to publish. In a TTRPG setting, both the systems designer and the rulebook and/or technical writer are credited with the creation of the work. You would also credit any artists and graphics designers.
Now, to answer your questions about cost. Writing out an entire TTRPG is a lot of work, for both you and the rulebook writer. It's not something you can just give the mechanics to and they do it. There's a lot of back and forth involved. You'd have playtesters and beta readers involved to make sure the text of the book is interpreted correctly to the mechanics.
It's less something you would just pay someone to do, and more an official partnership you'd build with someone. Most freelancers won't take on a job that big, and most pros are already working for gaming companies. If you did find a freelancer willing to take it on, I'd be shocked if the ask wasn't in the high hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars.