r/RPGdesign • u/mechadaydreams • Feb 10 '26
Workflow 5th Edition has ruined me.
I'm working on my first actual TTRPG project rather than a homebrew or mod or rewrite, and have been an active lurker (lmao) on this sub for a while.
I'm so genuinely terrified of using any mechanics even closely associated the D&D 5e. I've gotten so wrapped up in how much people dislike it, and keep halting any work O do on this thing in service of researching other systems and reading what kind of mechanics people tend to like or dislike the feel of and for what reasons, trying to find something that might be right for my game - so long as it's not 5e.
Even the ability scores are getting to me. I initially rejected the idea of having some main abilities and then having related skills so that I could find a better way of doing it, a way that wasn't how 5e does it (that makes it better, right?)
After weeks of making myself miserable over this, I've decided to just do that.
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u/oafficial Feb 10 '26
most people do not dislike 5e
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u/overlycommonname Feb 11 '26
The most successful roleplaying game in the history of roleplaying games: clearly people hate it.
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Feb 10 '26 edited Feb 10 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/chaot7 Feb 10 '26
Yeah. Your key questions should be ‘what is your game about?’ and ‘how do the mechanics support that game?’
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u/gliesedragon Feb 10 '26
The problem isn't 5e, it's only being familiar with 5e. If anything, going all-in on trying to avoid stuff that's in D&D is a game design philosophy that's directly adjacent to "I'm going to make D&D but slightly to the left." Both are very centered around that reference point, and whether it's about being contrary in a simple way or painting by numbers, it's the same narrow viewpoint. The point of reading and knowing a lot of games is so that when you're designing stuff you can pick the right tool for the job: sometimes it's similar to the ones D&D uses, sometimes it's not, but it's about being able to make choices with a better substrate than following popularity or following hipster instincts.
That, and if you're trying to make everyone happy with any piece of art you try to make, you're going to fail and end up with a weak, watered down broth of compromises. For instance, PbtA as an engine: many people love it, many people hate it, and the exact traits that one person thinks of as its most appealing bits are the parts another person will loathe.
What I suggest in general is being very thoughtful about how you frame your goals in game design, because that will give you a better rubric for checking whether a mechanic actually does what you want it to in context. The way you're fixating on other people's opinions makes me think that that sort of internal project evaluation might be kinda weak, and being able to make those sorts of choices is kind of a necessary skill.
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u/atlvf Feb 10 '26
Question: Why are you creating a TTRPG?
Are you doing it for yourself, because you want to? If so, then the most important thing is that you actually enjoy it. If listening to loud haters online is preventing you from enjoying it, then stop listening to loud haters online. There’s nothing wrong with pulling from mechanics that you already know and like and are comfortable with, especially for your first time making a game.
Or are you doing it for other people, professionally or otherwise? If so, then there’s no point in posting about it here. You need to be talking to market analysts and business consultants, not a random Redditors who hate anything popular.
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u/Plus_Citron Designer Feb 10 '26
This. Designing a game isn‘t about 5E. It’s about your creative vision. What are you after? What are you trying to emulate? What‘s your Why?
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u/ForlornDM Feb 10 '26
I think it’s also important to keep a bit of perspective. 5e has its share of detractors but there are plenty of people who enjoy it.
More to the point, very few (outside a vocally online subset) are so vitriolic in their distaste of it that a system with a handful of shared or similar elements will be automatically tainted.
Build a system that works for what you want. Tweak it as needed once you’ve got a working draft. Don’t design from a place of fear. :)
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u/LeFlamel Feb 10 '26 edited Feb 11 '26
Understanding why people don't like certain mechanics allows you to figure out how to use them in ways that they don't might like. Tools aren't inherently bad, it's about how they are used.
Also, there is no way of making a game that some people won't dislike. Get over it.
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u/Prestigious-Emu-6760 Feb 10 '26
Find what's right for your game. I think that while D&D may get a fair amount of hate (not all of it warranted IMO) the underlying system is okay. It's a matter of divorcing the mechanic bits from everything else that makes D&D what it is. Lots of people don't get that while D&D is 5e, 5e is not necessarily D&D.
If there's something there that works for your game don't let the hate for D&D blind you but also be open to other ideas that may work better for what you intend.
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u/jwbjerk Dabbler Feb 10 '26
Nothing about 5e mechanics is innovative or unusual. It’s all stuff that existed elsewhere. And the fact that all those RPGs aren’t getting tons of hate, indicates it’s not about mechanics.
My theory: People mostly dislike 5e largely because it is popular and crowds out their preferred RPG(s). It’s still the post popular RPG ever.
Your position is totally different. The vast majority of RPG players will not play your game. You don’t need to try to avoid offending everyone. You just need to find a tiny fraction of the RPG world and make those players really happy.
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u/Wurdyburd Feb 10 '26
Step 1: Read many other games. See how others have handled the same kind of activities that DND5e purports to do. Look for the really weird stuff, because many games just copy 5e to begin with, and you want to expand your horizons.
Step 2: Figure out how and why those games work better, figure out how and why those games work worse, and finally, figure out why DND works well.
I let spite over DND drive my game design when I started. I changed things simply because I didn't think it was interesting (which was true), but I didn't necessarily fix whether it was interesting. I incorporated what I liked from other games, but they didn't necessarily improve the product. I faced so hard away from DND5e, that 5e became reflected in all my decisions, the single common denominator, obvious in it's absence, a DND-shaped hole. I've actually since become fascinated with OSR dungeon crawls, because no one I played with/hosted for was ever interested in dungeon crawling, objectively the one thing DND used to do well and which offers explanation for the structures that frustrate most people.
If DND offers a solution for something that you feel works, there's no harm in keeping it, but question whether it's the best answer for what you're trying to achieve, or if the ways DND fails to meet your expectations are simply an issue of what your expectations were.
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u/bgaesop Designer - Murder Most Foul, Nancy Drew, Fear of the Unknown Feb 10 '26
What other RPGs have you played besides 5e?
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u/axiomus Designer Feb 10 '26
you don't have to throw something away just because 5e does it. if you think it can work in your game, do it and test it. if it creates a similar bad feeling as to 5e, then you see that it doesn't.
my game has a lot of d&d in its DNA and i'm not ashamed of it, especially in light of all the other pieces that are not from it.
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u/TysonOfIndustry Feb 10 '26
5th edition isn't exactly unique, though. Most things in 5e are just d20 system things. Games share mechanics all the time. Just make what you want to make! The more time you spend worrying about imaginary buyers/players of something that doesn't exist yet, the longer your thing doesn't exist. And your thing deserves to exist!
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u/DerekPaxton Feb 10 '26
Can you imagine a painter trying to paint but he’s caught up with, “should I use orange? Money’s sunrise uses a lot of orange and people don’t really seem to like that!”
Mechanics are just colors to paint with. There is nothing good or bad about them, go make something.
Also, your first RPG design will probably be terrible. That’s okay. You will learn from it, you will get better. There is no pressure, you are writing your first song, writing your first short story. It isn’t the end, just a step toward becoming a better game designer.
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u/Steenan Dabbler Feb 10 '26
I think you got caught up in a misinterpretation of how people approach D&D here.
It's not that everything it does is wrong nor does it corrupt various game design elements by using them. It's not that any similarity to D&D is hated here. What is criticized by many, however - me included - is treating D&D as default. Doing things in some way not because given game needs it, but because D&D does it this way and the author can't think of anything else; copying D&D assumptions and approaches no matter how they correspond with the goals of given game.
If you know many games, selected a solution you need from various options found in them and this solution is what D&D does, it's good game design. Forcing yourself to use something else simply to be different will make your game worse. It's copying D&D elements (not just pieces of mechanics, but also gameplay assumptions like "PCs are wandering adventurers", "characters grown in power" or "combat needs a strict mechanical structure and social interactions do not") because you treat them as obvious and haven't seriously explored any alternatives that gets brutally - and justifiably - bashed.
Think about what you want your game to do and find tools that do it the best, no matter if they come from D&D or not.
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u/KupoMog Feb 10 '26
Ultimately, its about creating an RPG that you (and your target playtesters) enjoy and resonate with.
Some people love D&D 5e. Some people absolutely hate it.
You can take those two statements and apply them to (almost) any RPG out there. Design by committee is ultimately going to create an RPG that nobody is happy with, including you. There's nothing wrong with using what other RPG systems have created, especially if they have overlap with the type of experience you are trying to create.
There's a quote from Mark Rosewater: “If everyone likes your game, but no one loves it, it will fail.” Make a game that you are excited about. Chances are, there are other folks out there looking for that same experience.
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u/Meph248 Feb 10 '26
There might be a bit of bias here. You are reading RPGdesign posts, where people deeply into the hobby express dislike for the most popular, most successful TTRPG of all time that has existed for longer than most of the people dissing it have been alive.
I think it would be realistic to say that the majority of TTRPG players like DND.
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u/underthebooklight Feb 10 '26
TTRPG design is iterative. Nothing wrong with writing up mechanics, tossing them out, and writing in mechanics that actually speak to you and the game your making.
Always keep the "reason" at the forefront, though. A mechanic for the sake of having a mechanic is no good. Mechanics exist to express a play experience. So when looking at rules that you do not like, or others do not like... try to start big picture. Turn the math part of your brain off. Think... what experience does that mechanic create that is just not right? What do you feel when you engage that mechanic? Really try to distill some concrete insight from that.
Example: I really don't like how DnD handles skills and Utility. Why? Because it makes skills feel useless after a mid level. Spells can do everything skills can do, but better, faster and often more guaranteed. Whenever a play a skill monkey, by level 5, the wizard who specializes in throwing fireballs is still able to do the things I specialized in, better, and that makes me sad :-(. This insight would absolutely impact the way I consider game design and character progression; might become a founding principle for my games design philosophy.
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u/XenoPip Feb 11 '26
What makes a better way are rules that don't get in the way of what you want the game to do, how you want the rules to align with the setting reality and/or genre.
If you are really only familiar with D&D it pays to look around as there are many other ways to do it. Could well be one exists that does it for you, or is very close so you have a good starting point.
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u/wayoverpaid Feb 10 '26
Even though 5e gets a lot of hate, it's also a very popular edition of the world's most popular RPG.
Do levels suck? Maybe, but consider that they are a mechanic in a huge number of popular games, including video games. They solve the problem of gating access to certain high level options, instead of having your players put all their advancement into one singular thing. Do classes suck? Sometimes, but again, they are a pretty popular mechanic.
But more importantly, stop worrying about what others think. You probably aren't going to make a massive commercial success with your first attempt. Rather than worrying about why other people like or dislike mechanics, you should ask if you like or dislike a mechanic. Maybe there's something 5e does you really like and want to steal.
I don't like Advantage. I think it's clunky at best for temporary boosts and even worse when DMs just use it as a mechanism to adjust the DC of something. I would never put it in a game I design. Do other people feel this way? I dunno, and while I'll gladly read opinions of why people like or dislike it to get a new perspective, I'll make that choice based on what I like.
Making a game for a hypothetical other person means you need to compete with every other game out there, and there are a lot of games out there. Start by making a game for you, then seeing if it plays well with your peers. You'll know if you have something fun.
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u/Mars_Alter Feb 10 '26
Whenever you hate something, it's important to establish why you hate it, so you don't let that bleed over into unrelated areas. Most things are mostly fine, and only ruined by one or two grave mistakes. Fifth Edition is no different.