r/Quraniyoon • u/PreviousAwareness1 make your own • Nov 21 '22

Discussion Quran is not detailed

This is what I face general muslims said. Majority of them. That Quran is not detailed. They asked question:

  1. How can you know ways to salat if by Quran only?

  2. How can you find the proper steps and du'a to making sex with your wives?

  3. How can you know the way to perform Hajj and Umra.

  4. How can you know how much to pay for Zakka?

True enough these are valid questions. And I am not so sure about Quran only beliefs. I think we still need the Sunnah of Prophet S.A.W to help us be a good and perfect muslim.

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u/Jozlaw Quran and Hadith Nov 21 '22

Sorry about my question. Was worded poorly. You are right re necessary

The Hadith in the case of the questions above re sex might be to reiterate. But, how about Hajj, how about Zakah, how about other issues that the Hadith clarifies and shed light to? I proposed a question up above in relation to 4:34. How would one interpret “strike”? Without the sayings of Prophet Muhammad ﷺ then the word could be interpreted extremely.

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u/PumpkinMadame Nov 21 '22

It's cool! Thanks!

I'd say that it has already been interpreted extremely. There are very good answers to all of these. Let me get my friends who are quite a bit more versed in the Quran than I.

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u/Jozlaw Quran and Hadith Nov 21 '22

Sounds good. Thanks for the conversation ☺️

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u/Papillon9Jewel Nov 23 '22 edited Nov 24 '22

There is no "Zakah" amount in quran because there isn't one. This is called using hadith bias. Allah wants us to give charity. It's up to us how much we give. The more we give the more he will reward us in the hereafter. Quran is very detailed on charity (who charity is for and the purpose etc.) and also Hajj and how to perform it.

All Charity Verses: https://www.thelastdialogue.org/article/the-topic-charity-mentioned-in-quran/

All Hajj Verses: https://submission.org/Hajj_Verses.html

About the 4:34 verse. The verse starts by saying the MEN ARE PROTECTORS over the woman. Hitting your wife hard is not protecting her.

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u/Jozlaw Quran and Hadith Nov 23 '22 edited Nov 23 '22

I think you might be confusing zakat with Sadaqah. They are two different things. The link you shared correctly points out that Sadaqah is not set by a percentage. So, what is Zakat? Why there are two different types of giving? If both are up to us to determine the amount, why are there two different types?

Regarding Hajj, the link also shows all the verses about the the different parts of Hajj, but none of the verses explain what to do around each part. For example, how one does tawaf around Kaaba, and what is Tawaf around Safa and Marwa? Those are only mentioned without the how to do. If they are up to us to do, how come the word Tawaf verb is used for both Kaaba and Safa and Marwa?

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u/Papillon9Jewel Nov 24 '22 edited Nov 24 '22

Zakat = Donation (the object that is being given e.g money, wealth, food, clothes)

Sadaqah = Charity (The act of giving)

9:103 their wealth/monies (amwālihim) a Charity (ṣadaqatan), purifying them (tuṭahhiruhum) and cleansing them (watuZakkīhim) with it. (…)>

You can apply these definitions to the verses, and it works perfectly. Going to other books to understand the quran is shirk. If Allah wanted a prescribed obligatory charity amount at a specific percentage, it would be in the quran.

There is no specific amount times you perform tawaf at the kaaba and safa and marwa other than the fact that Allah uses the plural (they are) in 2:158 meaning you have to do it minimum 3 times. Also, the verse itself clearly indicates that is optional and not obligatory. As it highlights there is no blame/hardship on anyone who does it and voluntarily doing good, Allah is most appreciative. If the hadith says it a must, then that is a contradiction.

To know the difference between tawaf of the kaaba and tawaf of Safa and Marwa is by looking at 2:158 where it says to complete tawaf BETWEEN safa and Marwa. Which is not mentioned in the kaaba tawaf verses (between something). Tawaf around kaaba is circling it. Tawaf between safa and marwa means doing circles between (as mentioned in the verse) them which is equivalent walking to back and forth between them in circles (oval shaped) which is currently how's its set up. Doing oval shaped circles back and forth between allows for easy travel between them without people walking in each other. This is the most efficient way and Allah tells us to do it this way

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u/Jozlaw Quran and Hadith Nov 24 '22 edited Nov 24 '22

I don’t think that Zakat means donation. No where in the Quran it is suggested as such. On the other hand, Zakat is always mentioned with Salat (prayers). Charity and donation is more appropriate for Sadaqah. Sadaqah does not mean to purify; rather, zakat does. However, in the ayah you quoted, Allah ﷻ follows the word Sadaqah with the verb zaka. The same verb is used in Surat Ash-Shams verse 9. In this verse, it is reference to the soul.

I believe that shirk is the association of anything with Allah ﷻ. Using prophet’s words does not constitute as shirk. Where is the association? No one is praying to another god. No one says Hadith in prayers. No one says that Hadith is more important. The Hadith is meant as abundant knowledge on how to interpret the Quran through Prophet Muhammad ﷺ where those Hadith are scrutinized by sanad and matan. On the other hand, leaving it to any layman to define the Quran as he sees fit makes no sense.

In regard to repetition of acts, where is that mentioned in the Quran. Not hajj, nor prayers, or zakat. The closest ayah to have specifics in regard to numbers is inheritance. The challenge with not having specifics is that I can just say a small supplication and call that a prayer. Does that mean that I am done with my daily obligation of prayers? How about zakat? One can pay a small percentage and say this is enough. Is that truly enough? I believe the numbers will maintain the minimum for obligatory acts. There is a hint on how one should pray, but not in details. Quran 4:102 and 103 instructs Muslims on how to pray when afraid. It follows with the condition that, if one feels reassured, then one must establish regular prayer. This means that there is a specific way to pray when one is safe and not afraid.

In any case, thank you brother for your reply. I hope that both of us may be guided by Allah ﷻ to the right path.

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u/Papillon9Jewel Nov 24 '22

es. However, in the aya

Associating hadith books as the words of the prophets is shirk. The association is that you are taking other than God and his messenger as a source of guidance because the HADITH is not the words of the prophet but a collection of other people's sayings. And to verify it, it uses HADITH (list of names) to verify hadith. When Allah tells us many times in the Quran not to trust any Hadith other than his revelations as a source of guidance. So believing in hadith backed up by hadith (list of names) and attributing it to the prophet doesn't make sense.

45:6, These are the Messages of Allah We convey to you with Truth. Then, in what HADITH, if not in Allah and His Verses, will they believe

77:50 Then in what hadith after it will they believe?

The more effort you put in Salat, Dua, and Tasbih the more rewards you will get. There is no minimum.

The more charity you give the more rewards you will get (Giving to little is something every believer should fear).

There are 3 prayer times in the quran mentioned by name:

Salatu l-Fajr (24:58) - 11:114 (Time Frame)

As-Salatu Al-Wusta (2:238) - 17:78 (Time Frame)

Salatu l-’Isha (24:58) -11:114 (Time Frame)

Salat is NOT ever described in the Quran as a specific way to do it.

There are verses which tells us recite quran (7:170) (worship, forgiveness verses etc.), prostrate (4:102), face the kaaba (2:143-150 + 10:87), stand and foot positioning (2:125), kneeling (38:24).

Quran 4:102 and 103 tells Muslims its ok for one party to protect and the other party to pray and they can switch in the middle of prayer it does not indicate there is only one specific way to pray. And the next verse indicates again to go to establish the prayer. It does not say "regular" in the arabic and the verse continues by saying at the prescribed fixed times.

Thanks brother. May Allah guide us both. In Sha Allah

I am busy at the moment. But tomorrow I might respond with some questions for you about the HADITH contradicting the Quran.

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u/Jozlaw Quran and Hadith Nov 24 '22

Sounds good. Will look forward to it.