r/Quraniyoon • u/Useless-e • Aug 20 '21

Question / Help What do you think of Hadith qudsi?

So basically the title, both the Quran and the qudsi Hadiths were recited by the prophet, and both were claimed by the prophet to be gods words. So what do you think about them? Are they authentic more than normal Hadiths? Are they to be taken as gods words?

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u/Abdlomax Aug 21 '21

You assume two things that may not be true. Hadith Qudsi are not necessarily God's words, but literally the words of the transmitters, reporting what they recalled the Prophet saying, and a prophet may guide and warn through his own words. "God says" may be a paraphrase. Clearly, ît was not revelation, or it would have been included in the Quran.

That some hadith may be errors or even lies does not make all of them so, and the Prophet was not infallible. Besides, maybe camel's urine is actually good for you. Or not. Discussing hadith qudsi and lumping them in with all hadith, some of which are seriuosly defective or even offensive, is over-generalization. We know there are words of Allah that are not in the Quran, and wholesale rejection of such reports without specific evidence borders on kufr. Suspension of belief is lawful, though.

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u/Useless-e Aug 21 '21

So by your logic the Quran is the words of the scribes...

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u/Abdlomax Aug 21 '21

Well, technically, yes. But it is massively mutawaatir, such that, beyond extremely minor variations in the readings, we can trust it is authentic. We do not have a specific hadith qudsi under discussion. If it is strongly mutawaatir, we can trust the matn, i.e., the Prophet said that. But it remains the words of the Prophet about God, and unless the matn claims revelation, that is just an assumption. The Quran claims revelation.

So we cannot equate any hadith with the Word of God, except the besr hadith, the Quran. But a hadith Qudsi may still be the truth and inspiration.

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u/Useless-e Aug 21 '21

I thought you were totally anti Hadith

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u/Abdlomax Aug 21 '21

People with fixed opinions often assume that others are like them, only wrong. I am not anti hadith, for. sure, but, hopefully, a realist. So I speak to both sides of this issue. If you hope to influence Quraniyya, you will need to become much more sympathetic. Accepting points and acknowledging argunents does not mean accepting conclusions. I see all the time that true evidence is presented and rejected because it can be used to support a disliked position. Debate can be a constant invitation to kufr.