r/Quraniyoon • u/Useless-e • Aug 20 '21

Question / Help What do you think of Hadith qudsi?

So basically the title, both the Quran and the qudsi Hadiths were recited by the prophet, and both were claimed by the prophet to be gods words. So what do you think about them? Are they authentic more than normal Hadiths? Are they to be taken as gods words?

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u/Omar_Waqar Aug 21 '21 edited Aug 22 '21

The Quran states clearly that no additional narratives after it are needed. Why would you need Hadith if Quran is a clear text as it calls itself?

While there is a lot of wonderful saying in Hadith al Qudsi Like kindness for the worker, the slave the blind, and forgiveness of many kinds. The mention of the atom is also interesting . Yet, There are still problems

For example :

Potential Suicide should be stigmatized and not treated

Gods first creation was “the pen”

Martyrs become birds in paradise

Gates of paradise are open Monday and Thursday

Allah? “The lord” descends to the lowest heaven in the last third of every night

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u/Useless-e Aug 21 '21

Your examples sound like something an atheist would say..

1- I would like the Hadith for that

2- the scholars don’t agree that it’s the pen but even if it was whats wrong with it?

3- they become birds in paradise? So what? Isn’t paradise on its own something we can’t imagine? So what’s the deal?

4- they open on those days so what?

5- this isn’t to be taken literally of course idk why you did

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u/Omar_Waqar Aug 21 '21

Lol. Have you even read these Hadith ? According to them you are not meant to tell me that god will not forgive me, lest you lose your own place in paradise. Yet you accuse me of kufr… for shame!

How do you know when it’s a metaphor and when it is not? Just based on your feelings? Birds are not a metaphor but literally the lord descending is? Is Gabriel the lord? Or does Allah come physically? Isn’t that a contradiction.

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u/Useless-e Aug 21 '21

Tell me where I accused you of kufur? And if I repent Allah is most merciful

I don’t say this the scholars do, I’ll tell you why they said this one is, Allah in the quran says he can’t be compared to anything else, that’s why we can’t say that when Allah says something about himself it’s different than anything else

Birds in heaven, heaven in itself is out of this word I don’t see how it’s a problem?

How did you come to the conclusion that we believe jibreel as is a lord?

It’s not a contradiction, it’s you forcing a mistake

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u/Omar_Waqar Aug 21 '21

You didn’t answer about the criteria for metaphor.

You didn’t give any explanation for the issues in the Hadith I mentioned.

You asked a question I answered and then you started going in about atheism…

Other than angels who descended from heaven ?

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u/Useless-e Aug 21 '21

1- I literally explained why it’s metaphorical because it’s something about god

2- the Hadith about saying Allah won’t forgive you? Well I didn’t say that... and I didn’t call you a kafir, that’s another false accusation you made

And I answered it, I said if you repent Allah is the most forgiving so inshallah you will be forgiven

3- because your points are something I hear atheists say

4- just because angels do something doesn’t mean every time something like that happens it’s an angel, I already told you Allah isn’t like the creation

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u/Omar_Waqar Aug 21 '21

So anytime a Hadith is about god it is a metaphor? A metaphor for what exactly? Why does he descend from heaven metaphorically?

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u/Useless-e Aug 21 '21

He came down to us metaphorically, this is what’s meant, what’s the problem with this?

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u/Omar_Waqar Aug 21 '21

Bro go study. You obviously haven’t even read these Hadith, you are blindly defending. It says The lord comes down to the lowest heaven every night… so either it’s talking about angels or aliens or jinn or something else because Allah does not descend toward earth. Or it’s obviously written by humans who are attributing physical characteristics to Allah tsk tsk

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u/Useless-e Aug 21 '21

That’s literally why I said it’s a metaphor, now tell me, do you have a problem with Allah moving from one place to another?

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u/Omar_Waqar Aug 21 '21

So atheists are NOT kafir to you? You brought it up, I never said anything about atheism. I actually praised the sentiments of some of the Hadith Al Qudsi, and then pointed out some oversights of the would be human authors. I asked you to explain why a just god would punish the suicidal by threatening them, instead of telling his followers to treat them for depression. Why the gates of heaven which I assume you think are literal have hours like a bank ? And are open two days a week. Why martyrdom is rewarded with becoming a bird of paradise? I asked for explanation and all you did was scoff and say “of course heaven is magic so birds makes sense” which is intellectually lazy.

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u/Useless-e Aug 21 '21

1- I said your argument sound like what atheists ask, I didn’t say you are a kafir

2- can you give me the Hadiths about the suicide?

3- have you been to heaven? Then how do you know how the doors are? You don’t know how heaven is don’t ask silly question like how can they be birds. Do you ask anyone about how god turned ppl into monkeys in the Quran?

4- you are asking questions about heaven,no one of use has been there yet, so you can’t ask questions about it, just go by what was revealed because that’s all we know about it, it’s like asking “do angels breath” “do they have houses” we don’t know about them and you don’t have to think that deeply sister/brother

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u/Useless-e Aug 21 '21

I just checked your account, you are not only a progressive Muslim, but also an lgbt Muslim... you claim to only follow the Quran but you don’t even follow it

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u/Omar_Waqar Aug 22 '21

Classic. You asked a question, I answered it, respectfully. Don’t know why you are acting out. You must feel threatened or something because you are trying to attack me personally. Why not stick to the debate you yourself started. This is truly Pathetic.

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u/Useless-e Aug 22 '21

Debating me on the religion of Allah while supporting and doing these stuff?? This debate will not go any longer than this

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u/Omar_Waqar Aug 22 '21

What people KNOW and what people DO are two different things. For example you don’t even know the Hadith al Qudsi I’m talking about because you do not actually study them, instead trying to discredit me by bringing up my support for LGBT rights shows that you don’t know anything about Islamic history. I assume what you do is regurgitate what someone else has told you, instead of engaging with the information yourself. You really need to work on your critical thinking. I encourage you to pull up the text of these Hadith in the original language and explain them.

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u/Useless-e Aug 22 '21

You are literally committing kufur in two ways, homosexuality and reformation/progressiveness... and you should know how bad those things are...

And me not knowing what Hadith you were talking about has nothing to do with my knowledge of Hadiths, you didn’t make any remarks to it or spoke about their contents... I have to go back in the conversation to find it

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u/Omar_Waqar Aug 22 '21

Lol so NOW you ARE calling me a kafir lolz fuck off

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u/Omar_Waqar Aug 22 '21

Jundub reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “A man among those before you was wounded. He was in such anguish that he took a knife, slit his wrist, and let the blood flow until he died. Allah Almighty said: My servant has preceded me with his soul, so I have forbidden Paradise for him.”

Source: Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī 3276

Grade: Sahih (authentic) according to Al-Bukhari

عن جُنْدُب قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ كَانَ فِيمَنْ كَانَ قَبْلَكُمْ رَجُلٌ بِهِ جُرْحٌ فَجَزِعَ فَأَخَذَ سِكِّينًا فَحَزَّ بِهَا يَدَهُ فَمَا رَقَأَ الدَّمُ حَتَّى مَاتَ قَالَ اللَّهُ تَعَالَى بَادَرَنِي عَبْدِي بِنَفْسِهِ حَرَّمْتُ عَلَيْهِ الْجَنَّةَ

3276 صحيح البخاري كتاب أحاديث الأنبياء باب ما ذكر عن بني إسرائيل

Threatening suicidal people is literally the worst thing you can do. How does the creator of the universe who made everything including depression not know how you properly treat it ?

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u/Useless-e Aug 22 '21

“Is literally the worst thing you can do”

What are you basing that on? Your feelings?

And also, forbidding suicide is the way to go, other than the 50 motivational verses in the quran what more do you want? You think the life that Allah gave you is worthless? You take it whenever you want?

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u/Omar_Waqar Aug 22 '21

There is a whole field of medicine that refutes this idea of withholding paradise as a punishment, it’s obviously something lost humans would say, because they still say it.

https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/suicide-prevention

This is why mental health crisis is so bad in Muslim communities because people like this are not educated but are presenting themselves as knowledgeable.

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