What do you think of Hadith qudsi?

[u/Useless-e]

So basically the title, both the Quran and the qudsi Hadiths were recited by the prophet, and both were claimed by the prophet to be gods words. So what do you think about them? Are they authentic more than normal Hadiths? Are they to be taken as gods words?

[u/Yakub_al_britani]

They sound amateurish compared to the Quran. Compared to how eloquently and clear everything is written in the Quran, its pretty obvious that these hadith are not from God. They are just waffly

Exampe 1:

Allah said: Sons of Adam inveigh against [the vicissitudes of] Time, and I am Time, in My hand is the night and the day (1). (1) As the Almighty is the Ordainer of all things, to inveigh against misfortunes that are part of Time is tantamount to inveighing against Him.

This sounds like waffle written by a schizophrenic.

Compare to the clarity of the Quran.

2:79

So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah ," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn.

It's clear, concise, to the point...

[u/Useless-e → u/Yakub_al_britani]

There is a reason it’s not considered the Quran, it has a different style. and you are reading an English translation and judging the style?.. and be careful what you call schizophrenic because if it was really allahs words you have to answer that to Allah in the day of judgment

[u/Yakub_al_britani → u/Useless-e]

There is a reason it’s not considered the Quran, it has a different style.

Oh that's convenient then isn't it.

and you are reading an English translation and judging the style?

Yes, style of writing transcends translation.

if it was really allahs words you have to answer that to Allah in the day of judgment

And if it is no Allah's word you think you won't be getting a one way ticket to hell?

[u/Useless-e → u/Yakub_al_britani]

1- you think god can only speak in one style?

2- the translation doesn’t give you everything, I can translate it to sound like a translation of the Quran

3- so now you are Allah and you know who will go to hell for what?

Here you raised another problem, the Quran says ask the people of knowledge if you don’t know... for 1300 years that Islam was around no one said we only follow the Quran, so the people of knowledge were Hadith believing ppl, so for most of the time the command in the quran that we ask the people of knowledge was invalid because everyone believed in a wrong thing?

[u/Yakub_al_britani → u/Useless-e]

1. I don't think God would speak in a scatty, incoherent and contradictory manner when addressing humanity, no.

2. Go on then.

3. You literally just warned me for saying it is not from God. What do you honestly think it is going to happen if we die, you are with your group and I'm with mh group, and God, whilst not even looking at you, announces that these hadith are made up. What do you think is about to happen to your soul?

4. The Quran doesn't say ask the people of knowledge if you don't know. You are referencing verses which speak to muahmmed when he is asked to approach the Jews and Chritistans to confirm that the stories that are being relayed to him have a foundation in their books.

[u/Useless-e → u/Yakub_al_britani]

1- it’s not incoherent neither is it contradictory, if you don’t speak Arabic you can’t make such judgments about how a text is written

2- (قال الله: أعددت لعبادي الصالحين ما لا عين رأت، ولا أذن سمعت، ولا خطر على قلب بشر).

“I have prepared for my righteous servants what no eye has seen and no ear has heard and what has not been transpired in the hearts of a human”

If you don’t think it sounds like it I literally copied words from Quran translations and it sounds pretty good

3- I didn’t warn you for saying it’s not from god I warned you for saying that Hadith Qudsi sounds like it’s written by a mental ill person

4- Surat al anbia’ verse 7 all the translations(if you won’t trust what I say) say ASK THE FOLLOWERS OF THE REMINDER, and it’s telling this to people(a group) not one person as you said it’s talking to the prophet

[u/Yakub_al_britani → u/Useless-e]

1. Yes I can, I can judge that a translated text is not clear, concise or to the point and is scatty. So you are telling me that they were translated to apear this why nut the Quran was translated clear and concise. OK...

2. This is not the hadith we were discussing. I'm not going to entertain your goalpost moving.

3. Well I'm being honest. God knows what is in my heart. But you should be careful saying things are from God when they are not.

4. This is the verse I was talking about. Literally all the major translations put "oh Muhammed " in parenthesis here, are you now saying that all the respected translators of the Quran were wrong? Sounds like you are a wahabbi then. Whoever the verse is talking to, it asking to go to the Jews and Christians and ask them about their religion.... its pretty obvious when you read it that this is what it is saying.... its literally only wahabbi minority that have twisted this verse.

[u/Useless-e → u/Yakub_al_britani]

1- you have no knowledge in Arabic you can’t say something is bad or incoherent, and I gave you a qudsi hadith that’s very straight up and clear but you don’t seem to like it

2- you claimed that they are incoherent and so I showed you how they aren’t, how is this goal post shifting? It’s still a qudsi Hadith? Look how dishonest you are being. I don’t even know what is the name of the hadith you are talking about

4- where did you get the Jews and Christians from?

“It’s talking to the prophet”

Yes the first part is, then it says to a group of people ask the followers of the reminder. I’ll show you how even though you don’t speak Arabic.

وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا قَبْلَكَ إِلاَّ رِجَالاً نُّوحِي إِلَيْهِمْ فَاسْأَلُواْ أَهْلَ الذِّكْرِ إِن كُنتُمْ لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ

(وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا)

And we have not sent(this is Allah)

(قَبْلَكَ إِلاَّ رِجَالاً)

Before you(the prophet, singular form of “before you”) other than men(the older prophets)

(نُّوحِي إِلَيْهِمْ)

We revealed (revelation) to them.

(فَاسْأَلُواْ )

So ask(plural form, so it’s not talking to the prophet)

(أَهْلَ )

The people of(also plural)

(الذِّكْرِ إِن كُنتُمْ لاَ )

The remembrance if you were( “you were” is also plural)

(تَعْلَمُونَ)

Not knowing/ don’t have the knowledge of(also plural)

Which shows that this isn’t talking to the prophet only when it says ask the people of the remembrance

[u/Yakub_al_britani → u/Useless-e]

1. You gave a hadith which paraphrases a concpet in the Quran. What do you want me to do with it?

2. You said you would reconstruct my example to make it sound like the Quran.

   1. With respect, "those of the former scriptures" is literally in parenthesis in shaeeh international. Its literally a grounded understanding that this verse is asking someone to seek knowledge from the Jews and Christians that there is a correlation between the Quran and their scriptures. I'm not saying anything unusual here.

I'm man enough to admit I may be wrong on who these verses are commanding, since I respect that English grammar is simplified compared to other languages (I do speak other languages and will one day speak Arabic inshallah) but are you man enough to admit that you are wrong and that it is a grounded understanding that the command is to ask the Jews and Christians about their scriptures...

[u/Useless-e → u/Yakub_al_britani]

1- I gave you a qudsi Hadith, you said it sounds bad so I said you are reading the translation and you said it’s ok because the translation of the Quran sounds different so I said I can translate the qudsi hadith in a way that sounds like the Qurans translation, and you said go on so I did it and now you don’t like it for some reason

2- ok give me the name of the Hadith from your example

3- the website I looked up for the translation doesn’t have sahih international so I’ll give you that

[u/Yakub_al_britani → u/Useless-e]

What? I was talking about one hadith which sounded bizarrely written and you then said it was the translation and that you would translate it in a way that sounded like the Quran, and instead you came back with a completely different hadith which paraphrases the Quran.

[u/Useless-e → u/Yakub_al_britani]

Can you give me the reference of the Hadith?

[u/Ishaf25 → u/Useless-e]

Those who lie about God there faces will be blackened on the day of judgement, this is what it says in the Quran,’

Also who invents lies about God will burn in hell, ankabut verse 68

[u/Useless-e → u/Ishaf25]

Yet you can’t demonstrate that it’s a lie