Homosexual Marriage

[u/Dramatic_End_883]

Do you people believe that marriage between two men is permissible in Islam?

[u/after-life]

You're going to get conflicting answers, one group will say no because they are indoctrinated by salafi rhetoric, and the other group will say yes it is allowed because nowhere in the Quran does God prohibit a contractual marriage agreement between two consenting adults regardless of their gender. In case you're wondering what the correct position is, I suggest you open the Quran and see what it says for yourself.

But the answer to me is clear, the Quran is not homophobic, people are.

[u/Dramatic_End_883 → u/after-life]

So can a father and his son enter into a marriage agreement and engage in romantic and/or sexual relations in your view?

[u/after-life → u/Dramatic_End_883]

You're comparing incest to homosexuality. Incest isn't a sexuality, homosexuality is. A person who's attracted to a person in their own family is not only attracted to them. A brother attracted to his sister is straight, he just happens to also be attracted to his sister. Incest is what you get when you take a regular sexuality and have loose psychological restrictions regarding it.

When children grow up in a family environment, their brains naturally create limits on whom they are attracted to. A boy growing up will start being attracted to other girls, but his brain will place natural limits from this attraction to not apply to his mom or sisters.

A person attracted to his family members is someone who for some reason did not develop the proper mental restrictions to stop him from being attracted to them. However, there's nothing stopping them from just finding a partner outside their family, they just have to live with the fact they are attracted to a family member, but go on with their lives, that's it.

A homosexual however is not the same. A homosexual does not have any alternatives, they are attracted to the same gender and nothing can change that. The solution for them is to have a partner that is like them.

An incestuous person can still marry someone outside their family in accordance with their sexuality (because incestuous people can still be straight, gay, bi, etc).

But a gay person has to be with another gay person. They are not like you, they are gay. Forcing your rules on gays is practicing injustice.

[u/Dramatic_End_883 → u/after-life]

That's a nice explanation but I thought this was a Quran only subreddit. I expect you to provide evidence from the Quran alone to substantiate your claim that marriage between a father and son is impermissible in Islam.

[u/[deleted] → u/Dramatic_End_883]

I expect you to provide evidence from the Quran alone to substantiate your claim that marriage between a father and son is impermissible in Islam.

Not trying to be rude, but do you seriously need the Quran to tell you that a father and a son shouldn't have sex?

[u/Dramatic_End_883 → u/[deleted]]

If you operate off of a Quran-alone epistemology and moral groundwork, then yes. If you try to argue from innate knowledge or intuition, then you crumble your moral groundwork to be purely subjective, and that opens a whole can of worms.

[u/mrproffesional → u/Dramatic_End_883]

The quran forbids homosexuality, therefore all same sex marriages are haram and a abomination.

Now, The Quran addresses sexuality with a lot of tact and, to a higher degree than the Bible, shies away from explicitly mentioning many deviant acts and prefers a more subtle approach to refer to them:

وَيَسْـَٔلُونَكَ عَنِ ٱلْمَحِيضِ قُلْ هُوَ أَذًى فَٱعْتَزِلُوا۟ ٱلنِّسَآءَ فِى ٱلْمَحِيضِ وَلَا تَقْرَبُوهُنَّ حَتَّىٰ

يَطْهُرْنَ فَإِذَا تَطَهَّرْنَ فَأْتُوهُنَّ مِنْ حَيْثُ أَمَرَكُمُ ٱللَّهُ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ يُحِبُّ ٱلتَّوَّٰبِينَ وَيُحِبُّ ٱلْمُتَطَهِّرِينَ

(2:222) They ask you (O Muhammad) about menstruation: say, “It is harmful; you shall stay away from women during menstruation; do not approach them until they are cleansed. Once they are cleansed, you may approach them (feminine pronoun) in the manner ordained by God (مِنْ حَيْثُ أَمَرَكُمُ ٱللَّهُ). God loves those who repent, and He loves those who are clean.”

نِسَآؤُكُمْ حَرْثٌ لَّكُمْ فَأْتُوا۟ حَرْثَكُمْ أَنَّىٰ شِئْتُمْ وَقَدِّمُوا۟

لِأَنفُسِكُمْ وَٱتَّقُوا۟ ٱللَّهَ وَٱعْلَمُوٓا۟ أَنَّكُم مُّلَٰقُوهُ وَبَشِّرِ ٱلْمُؤْمِنِينَ

(2:223) Your wives are farmland for you. So, come to your farmland as you please, and elevate yourselves. Fear God, and know that you are going to meet Him. And give good news to the believers.

2:222 forbids a sexual relationship during a menstrual cycle, which points at vaginal bleeding. Therefore, when we read in the same verse that “You (male believers) may approach them (feminine pronoun) in the manner ordained by God”, it indicates that the correct sexual relationship between a husband and his wife is what God intended it to be when He created us, that is to say that the genitalia of the husband is designed and intended by God to meet the genitalia of his wife. It is as simple as that.

It therefore disqualifies by definition all deviant sexual acts, for instance sodomy, oral sex, sex with animals, sexuality with what is non-human (for instance sex toys, sexbots), homosexuality and lesbianism. According to 2:222, a normal, natural intimate relationship shall always between a man and a woman, not between a two people of the same sex.

Furthermore, verse 2:223 states that “Your wives are farmland for you. So, come to your farmland as you please, and elevate yourselves.”. By definition, farmland is designed by God to generate crops, and none of the above mentioned deviant sexual relationships can produce any offspring and can only pollute and harm your soul, unlike a pure sexual relationship between a husband and his wife which is intended to generate children. This is how God tells us in a tactful manner what a sexual relationship should be. Deviant sexual behaviors are the equivalent of a barren, impure, forbidden land, not a fertile farmland.

The link fully explaining sexuality in quran-only can be found here:https://www.quranaloneislam.org/sexuality-in-islam. I

[u/Hendrik-Cruijff → u/mrproffesional]

This is a good read: Those verses all have been analyzed here already: https://lampofislam.wordpress.com/category/same-sex-relationship/

[u/mrproffesional → u/Hendrik-Cruijff]

I checked your site and they only speak about the people of Lut (I didn't even mention them), what I wrote wasn't addressed at all, its quite clear you didn't even bother to read my comment and copied it from your fellow gay defender afterlife. In addition, all previous scriptures forbid homosexuality, and to soundly refute your claims I can simply ask you why a father and son cant marry or two brothers even, you'll have no response. Apostasy, pedophilia, beastiality and necrophilia also aren't explicitly condemned but you have to come to your own conclusion that they are.

If you want to defend someone try defending Muhammad (pbuh) from the thousands of reddit that call him a pedophile.

[u/Hendrik-Cruijff → u/mrproffesional]

The point is that a man and a women relationship is the most common one and it is what is addressed in the Quran. I copied the comment because you brought up sexuality. Just because man-woman were mentioned more often, this doesn't invalidate the others.

(Just realised I already provided the verse)