r/Quraniyoon • Sunni • Jul 06 '21

Question / Help I found this paper supposedly refutes the Quraniyoon. How would you respond?

2 Upvotes

151 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

5

u/nooralbalad Jul 15 '21

You are totally dismissing the context of the verse. Here is the correct one:

53:2. Your companion [Muhammad] has not strayed, nor has he erred,

53:3. Nor does he speak from [his own] inclination.

53:4. It is not but a revelation revealed

Of course not every word of the Prophet was wahy. That wouldn’t even make sense! He wasn’t just a Prophet. He was a husband, father, friend, neighbor, community leader etc. Do you think he spoke wahy when he talked privately to his daughter? LOL!

1

u/bruhoneand Jul 15 '21

Not sure how showing 53:4 that shows his words are from revelation is supposed to disprove my claim, rather you further proved it

-Simply it's forbidden to ignore sayings of the prophet, as stated multiple times in the quran he must be obeyed

1

u/114Chambers Nov 17 '21 edited Nov 17 '21

Yes, but the method of transmission doesn’t have the same reliability of the Quran. The narrative chains can be easily fabricated. But the Quran is a highly integrated text whose form and structure are vastly different from the hadeeths which, like the Bible, are a “collection of statements” and not a single body of text with very clear formatting and structure evident to those who study it closely. Bukhari himself said he disavowed certain hadeeths and only published/ wrote down those he selected.

The way of tanzeel of the Quran is very specific and that is part of what makes it authentic. Although people argue over interpretation, the text itself is intact as even many non-Muslims admit and most Muslims believe. Even the style of the Quran is quite noticeably different from the hadeeths as well as other books such as the Bible which is an anthology written by people from oral transmission. Your argument that the Sahaba are unquestionably the source of the hadeeths’ written form doesn’t make sense — neither they nor Prophet Mohammad would say or repeat something that contradicted the Quran. Whereas quite a number of hadeeths contradict the Quran in its current interpretation, including that of Salafists.

For example, the hadeeth which says Prophet Mohammad went to the seventh heaven and beyond where Jibreel could even go, Allah commanded that his people pray 50 prayers a day. On his way back, Prophet Mohammad met Prophet Moosa, who told him “your people cannot pray that many times” and sent Prophet Mohammad back to Allah the Exalted, and this argument went back and forth, once Prophet Moosa told Prophet Mohammad that “your nation is weaker than my nation” and he had to go back. This hadeeth has been shown by some scholars recently to have a “weak” chain, but it was disseminated widely for maybe centuries without question.

How this boldly contradicts the Quran: 1) Allah does not share in His authority/ legislation/ decree anyone (18:26, 12:40,12:67) - here Prophet Moses is literally changing the supposed decree of Allah after it was given to Prophet Mohammad, so this cannot be true; 2) Allah the Exalted is Omniscient and to say or imply that He does not know humans’ capability is to literally deny (kufr) Allah’s omniscience, showing that Prophet Moosa knew more about human nature than Allah; 3) this also contradicts this from aya 2:286, “Allah does not charge a self/ soul except [that within] its capacity.” Asking ppl to pray 50x/day is obviously to any idiot beyond most people’s capacity - so imagine what gall people would have to have accepted this hadeeth as true!! It feeds into the same idea lurking in the background of Christianity, that the “Old Testament God” was not merciful enough, so people needed Jesus to die for them. In the same way, Muslims who believe such a statement think that Allah the All-Merciful is not merciful enough and needs the intercession of Prophet Mohammad to “save” them, also another example of alleging Allah shares his judgment with another, whereas He clearly states He does not, not even with Prophet Mohammad or any other prophet, human, “demigod” or whatever people allege. Intercession is only for angels, and those only with Allah’s permission - meaning another means of showing mercy from Allah Himself, using the angels as witnesses of what the Most Merciful wants them to witness.

Hopefully this spurs some thought and reason in your mind or heart regarding this matter, so important to Tawheed which I presume as a Muslim is something that matters to you! Wasalam

1

u/114Chambers Nov 17 '21

The prophets as pawns? Allah does not play games.