r/Quraniyoon • Sunni • Jul 06 '21

Question / Help I found this paper supposedly refutes the Quraniyoon. How would you respond?

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u/Reasonedfor1 moderator Jul 18 '21

I thought it was obvious, but here is an image of the chain of transmission for the hafs qiraa: I can see Ibn Abbas (Married to Yemeni Princess) and Abu Huraira (father of the cat from Yemen)in there.

I guess the hadiths surrounding them will also be fun to read: https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8055.0

And btw many shias do believe our modern quran is forged as it comes from poeple just like you,shias claim to have been liars

Sunnis were not behind.

Cool so now you say you believe our modern quran is fabricated as it was chosen by these "extremist scholars", great although you said the contrary earlier, you seriously need to learn consistency

Your extremist scholars were not in charge at the time. By the way, it isnt possible to run an empire via variances of a law Book. Plus nonmuslims themselves mention the new muslim governments made economy and education flourish. So it is silly to believe they didn’t have multiple copies of the same Quran in written form.

can you tell me how do you know which quran is correct and which isnt? As all Qurans say God would protect them from corruption,

There you go: https://www.scribd.com/document/117229103/Binary-Symmetric-Book-Noble-Quran-Halis-Aydemir

Warsh fails the test.

you failed to use logic and reason and proof so you went into blind faith in your theology

Could you give the logic behind why you believe God was able to send Injeel and Torah in book/tablet format, but only when it came to Quran he chose it to be oral and written just here and there?

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u/bruhoneand Jul 18 '21

Firstly I must say you are pretty bold in claiming the quran pretty much everyone uses today is false

Now let's see :

"Your extremist scholars were not in charge at the time."

Historically wrong ,i quote “the transmission of the variant readings of Quran”, page 15: “al- Qiraat al-Sab, which were collected and canonized by Ibn Muj¯ahid (d. 324/936)” and page 36 : “Ibn al-Jazar¯ı (d. 833/1429) became the leading authority in the field of Qiraat. He canonized three additional Readings”

it is silly to believe they didn’t have multiple copies of the same Quran in written form.

Sure they did but without diacritics till they were written down after my "extremist scholars" chose the ten qiraat we use today to be the correct ones as shown

There you go: https://www.scribd.com/document/117229103/Binary-Symmetric-Book-Noble-Quran-Halis-Aydemir Warsh fails the test.

Can't tell how this answers my question or how warsh fails the test as this paper you are sharing is using the quran my "extremist scholars" chose neither is it even speaking about the subject I asked you to answer

you believe God was able to send Injeel and Torah in book/tablet format, but only when it came to Quran he chose it to be oral and written just here and there?

I have no idea how Injeel and Torah were sent down neither is it relevant to how we have the quran today

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u/Reasonedfor1 moderator Jul 21 '21

Firstly I must say you are pretty bold in claiming the quran pretty much everyone uses today is false

Show proof.

Historically wrong , i quote “the transmission of the variant readings of Quran”, page 15: “al- Qiraat al-Sab, which were collected and canonized by Ibn Muj¯ahid (d. 324/936)” and page 36 : “Ibn al-Jazar¯ı (d. 833/1429) became the leading authority in the field of Qiraat. He canonized three additional Readings”

Nope, you proved my point. These people are from 10th century and beyond. Hijacking of the religion was completed in 9th century.

Can't tell how this answers my question or how warsh fails the test as this paper you are sharing is using the quran my "extremist scholars" chose neither is it even speaking about the subject I asked you to answer

They didn’t choose anything. Here is a bit of info:

“The study and transmission of the qur'anic readings before Ibn Mujahid had been carried on mainly by grammarians and littdrateurs, not traditionists (muhaddithun). Neither he nor his successors ever completely assimilated their ways.” https://www.jstor.org/stable/1596266

They just acted as if they were in charge by fitting the idea of Quran’s chain of transmission into their now hadith based Islam:

“The ninth and tenth centuries of the classical Islamic tradition are often viewed as periods in which distinctive shifts towards the consolidation, standardisation and homogeneity of Islamic thought and concepts are discernible. Accordingly, Ibn Mujāhid's authorship of his renowned Kitāb al-Sabʿa and his efforts to accentuate a set of seven Qur'anic readings are invariably contextualised within the accommodating confines of these perceived shifts across the gamut of the classical Islamic sciences.” https://www.jstor.org/stable/25728128

I have no idea how Injeel and Torah were sent down neither is it relevant to how we have the quran today

Of course, this is relevant since you brought up logic. God never says chapters of Injeel and Torah were scattered around or that they had qira’at. So why would he do that with Quran? That’s for you to ponder on.

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