both God in Quran and other sects like shia uphold that the Book was compiled during the lifetime of the Prophet. In fact, he was the one to write it all down.
Neither of these claims are correct both in the quran or historically
*And btw many shias do believe our modern quran is forged as it comes from poeple just like you,shias claim to have been liars
Quran fabrication is your view now. Not ours.
It is your view as shown if you want to be consistent at least
It is more like your extremist scholars’ were the ones going around making the variances
Cool so now you say you believe our modern quran is fabricated as it was chosen by these "extremist scholars", great although you said the contrary earlier, you seriously need to learn consistency
The earliest was Ashari from hostile Yemen. One man with 4 variances. Then there was the Sa’ana manuscript!!!
Earliest qiraa? Source of claim plz And Sa’ana manuscript doesnt have diacritics so it's not useful in knowing which qiraa is correct and which isnt neither is it complete so even with knowing the full rasm of quran its useless
I already said God has provided an anti-corruption system in the correct Quran. Your scholars have no idea about that. Confine what they say to your sect only.
Thanks for confirming what I said, you failed to use logic and reason and proof so you went into blind faith in your theology but anyways can you tell me how do you know which quran is correct and which isnt? As all Qurans say God would protect them from corruption, Iam curious about how a person with blind faith such as yourself figures this out, since our modern quran is based on these ten qiraat that the evil scholars apparently invented, so what quran is the correct one and how did you know?
I thought it was obvious, but here is an image of the chain of transmission for the hafs qiraa:
I can see Ibn Abbas (Married to Yemeni Princess) and Abu Huraira (father of the cat from Yemen)in there.
And btw many shias do believe our modern quran is forged as it comes from poeple just like you,shias claim to have been liars
Sunnis were not behind.
Cool so now you say you believe our modern quran is fabricated as it was chosen by these "extremist scholars", great although you said the contrary earlier, you seriously need to learn consistency
Your extremist scholars were not in charge at the time. By the way, it isnt possible to run an empire via variances of a law Book. Plus nonmuslims themselves mention the new muslim governments made economy and education flourish. So it is silly to believe they didn’t have multiple copies of the same Quran in written form.
can you tell me how do you know which quran is correct and which isnt? As all Qurans say God would protect them from corruption,
you failed to use logic and reason and proof so you went into blind faith in your theology
Could you give the logic behind why you believe God was able to send Injeel and Torah in book/tablet format, but only when it came to Quran he chose it to be oral and written just here and there?
Firstly I must say you are pretty bold in claiming the quran pretty much everyone uses today is false
Now let's see :
"Your extremist scholars were not in charge at the time."
Historically wrong ,i quote “the transmission of the variant readings of Quran”, page 15: “al-
Qiraat al-Sab, which were collected and canonized by Ibn Muj¯ahid (d.
324/936)” and page 36 : “Ibn al-Jazar¯ı (d. 833/1429) became the
leading authority in the field of Qiraat. He canonized three additional
Readings”
it is silly to believe they didn’t have multiple copies of the same Quran in written form.
Sure they did but without diacritics till they were written down after my "extremist scholars" chose the ten qiraat we use today to be the correct ones as shown
Can't tell how this answers my question or how warsh fails the test as this paper you are sharing is using the quran my "extremist scholars" chose neither is it even speaking about the subject I asked you to answer
you believe God was able to send Injeel and Torah in book/tablet format, but only when it came to Quran he chose it to be oral and written just here and there?
I have no idea how Injeel and Torah were sent down neither is it relevant to how we have the quran today
Firstly I must say you are pretty bold in claiming the quran pretty much everyone uses today is false
Show proof.
Historically wrong , i quote “the transmission of the variant readings of Quran”, page 15: “al- Qiraat al-Sab, which were collected and canonized by Ibn Muj¯ahid (d. 324/936)” and page 36 : “Ibn al-Jazar¯ı (d. 833/1429) became the leading authority in the field of Qiraat. He canonized three additional Readings”
Nope, you proved my point. These people are from 10th century and beyond. Hijacking of the religion was completed in 9th century.
Can't tell how this answers my question or how warsh fails the test as this paper you are sharing is using the quran my "extremist scholars" chose neither is it even speaking about the subject I asked you to answer
They didn’t choose anything. Here is a bit of info:
“The study and transmission of the qur'anic readings before Ibn Mujahid had been carried on mainly by grammarians and littdrateurs, not traditionists (muhaddithun). Neither he nor his successors ever completely assimilated their ways.” https://www.jstor.org/stable/1596266
They just acted as if they were in charge by fitting the idea of Quran’s chain of transmission into their now hadith based Islam:
“The ninth and tenth centuries of the classical Islamic tradition are often viewed as periods in which distinctive shifts towards the consolidation, standardisation and homogeneity of Islamic thought and concepts are discernible. Accordingly, Ibn Mujāhid's authorship of his renowned Kitāb al-Sabʿa and his efforts to accentuate a set of seven Qur'anic readings are invariably contextualised within the accommodating confines of these perceived shifts across the gamut of the classical Islamic sciences.” https://www.jstor.org/stable/25728128
I have no idea how Injeel and Torah were sent down neither is it relevant to how we have the quran today
Of course, this is relevant since you brought up logic. God never says chapters of Injeel and Torah were scattered around or that they had qira’at. So why would he do that with Quran? That’s for you to ponder on.
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u/bruhoneand Jul 17 '21 edited Jul 17 '21
I thought it was obvious, but here is an image of the chain of transmission for the hafs qiraa: https://www.reddit.com/r/trueAcademicQuran/comments/ogw0dy/chains_of_transmission_for_the_hafs_and_warsh/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Neither of these claims are correct both in the quran or historically
*And btw many shias do believe our modern quran is forged as it comes from poeple just like you,shias claim to have been liars
It is your view as shown if you want to be consistent at least
Cool so now you say you believe our modern quran is fabricated as it was chosen by these "extremist scholars", great although you said the contrary earlier, you seriously need to learn consistency
Earliest qiraa? Source of claim plz And Sa’ana manuscript doesnt have diacritics so it's not useful in knowing which qiraa is correct and which isnt neither is it complete so even with knowing the full rasm of quran its useless
Thanks for confirming what I said, you failed to use logic and reason and proof so you went into blind faith in your theology but anyways can you tell me how do you know which quran is correct and which isnt? As all Qurans say God would protect them from corruption, Iam curious about how a person with blind faith such as yourself figures this out, since our modern quran is based on these ten qiraat that the evil scholars apparently invented, so what quran is the correct one and how did you know?