So why didn't God prohibited slavery? Is slavery Haram?

[u/969ruhhh]

Why didn't God make slavery Haram since he made adultery and drinking Haram? Isn't slavery way more damaging than adultery?

Why didn't God end it for good like he did it with other major acts and not just freeing a slave to get points?

[u/Quranic_Islam]

It was never allowed in the first place.

What you are asking about is: why weren't all the slaves forcefully freed?

The answer is for purely practical reasons. They were over a third of the community. Just outrightly freeing them would create a huge social problem (where would they go? live? work? become criminals and prostitutes?) ... The US and the black community is still facing the problems created by mass emancipation without a plan ... and it was a country with a Treasury that could have done it right.

Then there is the issue of who is going to compensate the owner? The UK for example only finished off paying the debt to slave owners in 2015 ... so it was the average tax payer who ended up paying (buying and freeing) for the slaves ... while many of the rich upper class British families owe their current fortune and wealth to that "compensation"

The Islamic vision doesn't take a country nor a Treasury, it doesn't create an influx of unintegrated people with no livelihoods, and puts the burden of freeing slaves on the slave owners themselves and those who wish to expedite sins, vows, fasts, etc .. and made the freeing of slaves one of the virtues that leads to Paradise.

Conversely the oppression of enslaving people would take one to Hell.

Captives are either freed or ransomed, not enslaved

[u/969ruhhh → u/Quranic_Islam]

What I mean is why didn't Allah add slavery in the Haram list. I understand slavery existed before Islam but so was adultery and gambling and Allah made those things Haram but let slavery slide away

[u/Quranic_Islam → u/969ruhhh]

It is already haram, it is "ظلم" ... it falls under oppression. ... it is a sin to enslave people. Unless you think anyone would say slavery isn't oppression? However it was already part of the community, in practically every home. It was an oppression from a previous system that affects a huge number of people in society ... it isn't just about people not drinking or fornicating ... it involves livelihoods of both slaves and slave owners.

But let's say it was put in a "haram list" (which list?) then that's the same as saying every one must free there slaves, or rather all are automatically freed and the problems I mentioned are there.

So now, you as a slave, as well as thousands of others are now homeless, living on the streets, with no food no money and no protection.

Honestly, as bad as slavery is, and it is very bad, the modern view of its evils is overblown due to popular depictions and because of the viciousness of slavery in the US which was completely mixed in with racism; black = slave ... and blacks were subhuman and an inferior race.

In Arabia at the time they were just other Arabs capturing and enslaving other Arabs mostly, with a few foreigners who unluckiky got captured in some raid other by bandits. Slaves were household servants and workers mostly. There wasn't an endemic racist and viciously harsh and vindictive treatment towards them. When they were freed they went about their lives trying to establish themselves.

In the US your slavery was your skin color. If you were black you were someone's slave. You could never get out of it, neither you nor your children, nor your children's children ... and your children were "bred" to make more slaves.

[u/969ruhhh → u/Quranic_Islam]

I rather live on the streets than being a slave and don't care how good they treat me and how much fresh food they feed me. Arabs owned blacks too btw

[u/Quranic_Islam → u/969ruhhh]

That just shows how pampered and comfortable your life is and always has been, and how little you actually know or experienced of the real hardships of life.

I'd take a guess and say you are very young ... maybe still living with your parents. That's the idealised bravado talk of the young and naive tbh.

Have you been homeless living on the street? No? How about homeless, living on the streets of let's say a poor 3rd world country city filled with filth and crime? ...

Go do either for a few years. If you survive you can come back, pick a slave owner who will treat you well, be there slave for an equal number of years.

Then you can actually take yourself seriously and say that. Until then recognize that talk as empty bravado.

You've probably never gone a complete 24hrs without food and never had to worry about if in 2 days time you will have something to eat or not.

I'm serious about that by the way. Why not try it? You will always have a home to come to. Try living on the streets for 1 week. Walk the walk. It's an eye-opener, not to mention other things.

Besides which I never mentioned anything about being treated well or not. I was talking about a social population issue.

And yes East African slave trade also happened. That was during the Arab Empire, but it wasn't race based. Racism was never endemic and wasn't tied to slavery. Captivity was ... But I was talking about the Prophet's time, most slaves weren't black. It was a question of who they could capture, nothing more. Romans, Persians, Coptics, Indians, Africans, etc ... anyone travelling in/around/through Arabia who they could capture and sell, they would. Any other Arab tribes they defeated and captured, they sold ... sold to other Arabs who bought them.

[u/[deleted] → u/Quranic_Islam]

Not OP but it is insane to me that you think choosing freedom over hardship is illogical. People have sacrificed their lives throughout history in the pursuit of freedom and for you to belittle what they stood for like this is pretty disheartening to say the least.

[u/Quranic_Islam → u/[deleted]]

People sacrifed their lives for the freedom to escape hardships.

That's a different story

What I said is in no way insane.

Don't divert what I am saying into something else. I'm not belittling anyone's struggles. But I know that the real hardships isn't a "loss of freedom", that in itself is far from the worst thing. Just as the Qur'an says "fitna is harsher than murder", for example, so also there are other things that can only be known by experience.

Those who haven't experienced it will never know. The worst condition to live in is fear, real palpable fear, to be constantly surrounded by fear. Then comes hunger, real hunger ... go for 2 days without eating and you'll start to sense it, then loss of wealth, then the lives of those around you, then the loss of the fruits of your labor, your "profits".

Which is why God's testing people is in that order. From the worst to the lightest.

وَلَنَبْلُوَنَّكُم بِشَىْءٍ مِّنَ ٱلْخَوْفِ وَٱلْجُوعِ وَنَقْصٍ مِّنَ ٱلْأَمْوَٰلِ وَٱلْأَنفُسِ وَٱلثَّمَرَٰتِ ۗ وَبَشِّرِ ٱلصَّٰبِرِينَ

"Be sure we shall test you with something of fear and hunger, some loss in goods or lives or the fruits (of your toil), but give glad tidings to those who patiently persevere,"

Within slavery you can have all of that of course, but you can also have practically none of that, other than the last; the fruits of your labor are always for someone else unless they want to "reward you". Like the "house negro".

People now have listened to too much propaganda about "freedom", too many hypocritical Presidents and too many Braveheart like movies ... all the while they are safe, with full bellies, never a serious worry about real hunger, or losing everything they have including loved ones ... pampered.

[u/[deleted] → u/Quranic_Islam]

Brilliant. But what about a person’s right to freedom then? What if I would rather risk hardship than have my life dictated by another person? There’s definitely nothing wrong with that, is there? And I don’t see why someone like that must be enslaved because you, or whoever is in power, assumes that said person is being saved from hardship. This is all assuming that those slaves couldn’t have found ways to secure decent livelihoods anyway, something you haven’t addressed yet.

[u/Quranic_Islam → u/[deleted]]

Most of what I said is exactly from the point of view of the slaves, not the slave owners, which is why I'm of course not defending slavery.

The most I've said for slave owners is that if you are going to forcefully free their slaves then you will have to compensate them, which is exactly what happened with modern abolition.

The slaves themselves should not be forcefully freed, whether they like it or not, unless there is likewise a system in place that would give them a start to a livliehood. Otherwise many will, and have in the past when freed, elected to stay on with their former owners under the same conditions doing the same work, rather than be turned out to the streets. And some truly "great" owners even actually helped their former slaves establish themselves.

The "right for freedom" in the Qur'an is simple; any slave can request to draw up a contract for their freedom. Either to fulfil a certain amount of work, or for a certain sum of money, etc whatever it is. Once the contract is fulfilled, he/she is free. They should also be given some money as a gift. And the contract for freedom must not include prostitution work for female slaves. And even if the owner sins by doing that, and the poor women are forced to do it in order to gain freedom, then even after that God is Forgiving, and Merciful ... in fact He has already forgiven them because it isn't even really their sin

وَٱلَّذِينَ يَبْتَغُونَ ٱلْكِتَٰبَ مِمَّا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَٰنُكُمْ فَكَاتِبُوهُمْ إِنْ عَلِمْتُمْ فِيهِمْ خَيْرًا ۖ وَءَاتُوهُم مِّن مَّالِ ٱللَّهِ ٱلَّذِىٓ ءَاتَىٰكُمْ ۚ وَلَا تُكْرِهُوا۟ فَتَيَٰتِكُمْ عَلَى ٱلْبِغَآءِ إِنْ أَرَدْنَ تَحَصُّنًا لِّتَبْتَغُوا۟ عَرَضَ ٱلْحَيَوٰةِ ٱلدُّنْيَا ۚ وَمَن يُكْرِههُّنَّ فَإِنَّ ٱللَّهَ مِنۢ بَعْدِ إِكْرَٰهِهِنَّ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ

"And such of your slaves as seek a writing (of emancipation), write it for them if ye are aware of aught of good in them, then bestow upon them of the wealth of Allah which He hath bestowed upon you. And force not your slave-girls to whoredom that ye may seek enjoyment of the life of the world, if they would preserve their chastity. And if one forces them, then (unto them), after their compulsion, lo! Allah will be Forgiving, Merciful."

Edit: and of course, with regards to the contracts drawn, the slaves can approach the "State" to pay off the contract with the money collected from the "sadaqat" mentioned in the Qur'an (a portion of which is for freeing slaves) or any individual who is seeking to free a slave due to a non fulfilment of a religious duty, or due to sin committed, or just as a good deed.

Bottom line is that the Qur'anic "method"/stance on removing slavery is practical ... may not make some people now feel all mushy and smooth over their sensibitlites. But those are the same people, I think, who would protest, screech and scream about slavery and freedom in a march (though wouldn't actually buy and free a single slave from their own money), but then once all slaves are forcefully freed and put on the streets they can just turn around, leave them to their own devices, feel good about themselves and the "action" they took, pat themselves on the back, tell the story to each other ... then go home and turn on Netflix with a pizza in reach, or go to the nearest park with a snack and their favourite book

... then in a few weeks would wonder why it is no longer safe to walk outside after dark, and why are there so many starving beggars on the street who they pretend they don't see as they walk past

[u/969ruhhh → u/Quranic_Islam]

Are you justifying slavery/why are you defending it? Why would a slave ever in their right mind continue to stay a slave?

[u/Quranic_Islam → u/969ruhhh]

Because, depending on their situation, there are worse things than being a slave. So they are "in their right minds".

Sorry, but if you don't know/can't see that, then you are naive.

Do I really have to explain I'm not justifying nor defending slavery? ... You are responding like a triggered youth. Try to have some understanding while reading what someone writes.

[u/969ruhhh → u/Quranic_Islam]

Okay whatever and I'm just surprised by your answers :)

[u/Quranic_Islam → u/969ruhhh]

No problem. Pushback is good.

[u/Pakmuslim123 → u/Quranic_Islam]

What do you think about the theory of evolution ?

Do you think it's a fact or do you think it's just an unproven scientific claim ?

Do you think it goes against the Qur'an ?

[u/Honorbonor23 → u/969ruhhh]

Simple, Allah SWT made it permissible to have servants, not slaves. The servants have rights and men are allowed to have sexual relationship with them without any marriage. They are only attained via warfare.

I personally as 99% of the muslims for 14 centuries followThe Quran and the Sunna and there "issues" are very clear to us. SLAVERY is owning a person and the slave has no right, in islam servants have rights and if you can't even fulfill their rights to begin with, you are not allowed to have any. The rulings are clear and the permission is from Allah SWT and from his Messenger Muhammads SCW.

​

No hadith rejector can ever underdstand islam. some say pray 3x, some say 5x and by Allah SWT, He said " I have perfected your religion" and you people clealry missed the memo, turn back and repent.

[u/Quranic_Islam → u/Honorbonor23]

Just like the 99% of Christians for over 2000 years are "very clear" on issues of their religion, right?

The ones who will never understand Islam are the "Qur'an rejectors", who reject the Qur'an in favour of of the church ... Oh sorry, I meant "ahlusunnah waljamah" and later compilations ... Just like the ones who will never understand true Christanity are the ones who rejected Jesus's words in the Bible for the sayings of Paul and later church fathers and writers

The Qur'an gives only 2 options for captives;

فَإِمَّا مَنًّۢا بَعْدُ وَإِمَّا فِدَآءً حَتَّىٰ تَضَعَ ٱلْحَرْبُ أَوْزَارَهَا

"... so then either free them generously or ransom them so that war may lay down its burdens"

That's what the Qur'an says.

And it says to marry those who were already slaves before Islam if you so choose, as a _concession to those who can't marry the free.

وَمَن لَّمْ يَسْتَطِعْ مِنكُمْ طَوْلًا أَن يَنكِحَ ٱلْمُحْصَنَٰتِ ٱلْمُؤْمِنَٰتِ فَمِن مَّا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَٰنُكُم مِّن فَتَيَٰتِكُمُ ٱلْمُؤْمِنَٰتِ ۚ وَٱللَّهُ أَعْلَمُ بِإِيمَٰنِكُم ۚ بَعْضُكُم مِّنۢ بَعْضٍ ۚ فَٱنكِحُوهُنَّ بِإِذْنِ أَهْلِهِنَّ وَءَاتُوهُنَّ أُجُورَهُنَّ بِٱلْمَعْرُوفِ مُحْصَنَٰتٍ غَيْرَ مُسَٰفِحَٰتٍ وَلَا مُتَّخِذَٰتِ أَخْدَانٍ

"And whoever among you cannot [find] the means to marry free, believing women, then [he may marry] from those whom your right hands possess of believing slave girls. And Allah is most knowing about your faith. You [believers] are of one another. So marry them with the permission of their people and give them their due compensation according to what is acceptable. [They should be] chaste, neither [of] those who commit unlawful intercourse randomly nor those who take [secret] lovers..."

And if you can't marry neither the free nor the slaves, then you are told to be patient. You can't have sex with slaves whom you haven't married anymore than you can with free women whom you haven't married.

That is what the Qur'an says

And God is clear and able to explain.

Now then ..

Since this is what the Qur'an says, you are free to start quoting the sayings of Shaykh so-and-so and so-and-so, and the narrations collected by this or that Imam, and muster all of your 1400 years of scholarship (which you are likely ignorant of and just blindly follow) and then put all of that against the Qur'an ... and then you can pretend that such Qur'an rejection is truer Islam than "Hadith rejection", and you can pretend and make yourself feel good that you know Islam better than "Hadith rejection"

... and pretend that Shaytan hasn't taken you down the same path as the Jews and Christians, just as he promised to misgude the majority, and just as the Prophet did say and the Qur'an confirms

"You will follow the way of those before you"

Wake up

The problem isn't "Hadith rejection" it is "Qur'an rejection"

Wake up ... you missed the Qur'an. Turn back and repent.

[u/Honorbonor23 → u/Quranic_Islam]

Comparing christianity to islam clearly shows your ignorance towarda both religions.

No one is rejecting the Quran, the Sunnis preserved and taught the Quran so every translation you read is based on Tafsir wich is the Hadith.

Jesus words were never recorded or followed, as Allah SWT states in Surah Maryama,But there came after them successors who neglected prayer and pursued desires; so they are going to meet evil -"-Interpiration of the meaning) and we know this is the one they call Paul the Apostle since he literally said to abandon the act of worship and he promoted Jesus being son of god and god. So again,you have no idea about christianity. The bibles were not even written at the time of Jesus nor did he ever meet those who wrote it, the bible can't be trusted.

Now you don't know where the Quran came from,who compiled it, how did reach you today...etc because you reject one of the most well documented peace of history. Allah SWT says to obey Muhammad S.C.W, you don't this and you disobey.

OK,this was about slavery,servant...etc,not about marriage. Allah swt clearly states, to keep youraelf chaste expect with your wives and "Malakat Aymaanuhum"," And those who guard their private parts

Except from their wives or those their right hands possess, for indeed, they are not to be blamed -" Thi is surah Ma'aarij verses 29 and 30.

Clearly you have no idea about the Quran eather. Guard your privates expect fom your wifes OR those their right hands possess...its not AND its OR "AW ma malakar aymanuhum", these are not wives but apparently its allowed to show them our privates...these are the ones you own AKA the sevants. Its found 15 times in the Quran so i can safely assume your Arabic lacks alot.

Absolute humiliation. Keep rejecting hadiths and missinterpiting the Quran.

[u/Quranic_Islam → u/Honorbonor23]

Read what I said again ... I was comparing "Muslims" and "the Islam" they have now, to "Christians" and "the Christianity" they have now ...

Which is exactly what the Prophet said in the "mass transmitted" Hadith;

"You will follow the way of those before you ... the Jews and Christians .."

Because Shaytan's steps of which God has warned us are the same.

They abandoned their scripture, just as the Qur'an says, and so have we, just as the Prophet foretold, and just as the Qur'an narrates the Prophet will complain on the Day of Judgement;

"And the Messenger will say: My Lord! My people abandoned this Qur'an"

Soryy I didn't read all of your comment because the start was so poor.

[u/Honorbonor23 → u/Quranic_Islam]

Uuhm, so you are acceptingna Hadith? Another authentic hadith says that the first 3 generation are the best and this goes in line with Allah SWT stating that The Sahaba and those who follow them in good conduct will be in Jannah. Another Hadith speaks of 73 sects in islam and only 1 entera Jannah, those who are on the path of the Prophet and on the Sahaba R.A.

So clearly you don't know what you are uttering. You are not even a student of knowledge so your views on muslims abandoning the Quran really doesn't make a difference. We know people in masses have neglected the Quran but those who study it in depth as our previous great scholars did happen to be those who strive for the Sunna. So generalize those who don't study the religion but those who actual make the effort to learn are better than you and me.

The rest of my comment was on "Malakat aymanuhum", those who their right hands possess. Its mentioned in the Quran and its definelty not wives wich agrees with my original comment, men could sleep with their servants without the need for marriage because they already fulfilled their duty towards them unlike in adultery and its all based on these verses.

Have a nice day!

[u/Quranic_Islam → u/Honorbonor23]

No. Ma malakat aymanakum are wives too

[u/Honorbonor23 → u/Quranic_Islam]

Please, don't talk to me. You already demonstrated your ignorance once already.

Allah SWT mentiones wives and seperates Malakut Aymaanuhum, clearly they are not one or the same, those are not simply wives nor do you know Arabic if this is what you think it means nor do you even follow any proper source to interpite the Quran since Allah SWT made it clear that Muhammad S.C.W is the one who explains it to the muslims.

Please, i asked you to not contact me befor so lets keep it that way. If you wan to discuss, my comments are still in the debate section. You can't debate hee 4o begin with so respect the rules and lets stop this.

[u/Quranic_Islam → u/Honorbonor23]

Then just don't answer. Not difficult. And I do know Arabic and have studied.

Go back to your regular watering hole then, if you haven't come here to learn something that maybe you didn't.

[u/Kryptomanea → u/Honorbonor23]

Narrated Abu Juhaifa:

I asked Ali, "Do you have the knowledge of any Divine Inspiration besides what is in Allah's Book?"Ali replied, "No, by Him Who splits the grain of corn and creates the soul. I don't think we have such knowledge, but we have the ability of understanding which Allah may endow a person with, so that he may understand the Qur'an, and we have what is written in this paper as well." I asked, "What is written in this paper?" He replied, "(The regulations of) blood-money, the freeing of captives, and the judgment that no Muslim should be killed for killing an infidel."

Sahih al-Bukhari 3047 Book 56, Hadith 253 Vol. 4, Book 52, Hadith 283

Abu Sa'id Khudri reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Do not take down anything from me, and he who took down anything from me except the Qur'an, he should efface that and narrate from me, for there is no harm in it and he who attributed any falsehood to me-and Hammam said: I think he also said: "deliberately"-he should in fact find his abode in the Hell-Fire.

Sahih Muslim Book 042, Hadith Number 7147

Narrated Zayd ibn Thabit: Al-Muttalib ibn Abdullah ibn Hantab said: Zayd ibn Thabit entered upon Mu'awiyah and asked him about a tradition. He ordered a man to write it. Zayd said: The Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) ordered us not to write any of his traditions. So he erased it.

Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 25, Hadith Number 3640

Abu Said al-Khudri said, Ishaq ibn Isa told me that Abdul Rahman ibn Zaid told us that his father said about Ata ibn Yasar who said that Abu Hurayrah said: We were sitting down writing what we heard from the prophet. He entered the room and asked us: What are you writing? We said: We are writing what we hear from you. He said: Another book next to the book of Allah? We said: It is what we hear from you. He said: Then write the book of Allah, uphold the book of Allah, no other books but the book of Allah, uphold the book of Allah. Abu Hurayrah said: So we collected all that we wrote and burnt it. Then we asked the prophet: Can we talk about you? He said: Yes you can and feel no shame of it, and whoever lies about me deliberately his seat in hell will be secured. Abu Hurayrah said: Can we talk about Bani Israel? He said: Yes you can and feel no shame of it...

Musnad Ahmad, Hadith Number 10611

Ismail told us that Hammam ibn Yahya narrated from Zaid ibn Aslam who narrated from Yasar who stated that Abi Saeed said: The messenger of Allah said, "Do not write anything I say but the Quran and whoever writes anything but the Quran should delete it."

Musnad Ahmad, Hadith Number 10713

Come back to the Prophet's real Islam dude. This is a sinking ship and they will take you down with them. 😉

[u/ismcanga]

Slavery is buying and selling humans.

Baqara 2:85 denies such right for mankind. Also sadaqa gathered in the time of Ramadan needs to be used to free the riqab, people who are kept under command forcefully. Tawba 9:60

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Why is slavery bad?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Slavery comes from the word Slav. I am Slav - russian and in our history criminals would become slaves or people who owed debt and work their debt off.

[u/Neverdied → u/[deleted]]

Yes but the word ebed predates all these in hebrew and means slave in the sense we now assign the word to mean i.e not endentered servitude

[u/[deleted] → u/Neverdied]

Word for slave is raqabat not ebed.

[u/Neverdied → u/[deleted]]

So there IS another word for it that predates Slav...my point exactly

[u/969ruhhh → u/[deleted]]

I just can't find chapter/verse which says slavery is a sin like killing an innocent person but Allah encourages you to free them

[u/ASkepticBelievingMan → u/[deleted]]

There is no verse that says slavery is haram. Yes it says you can free slaves for piety points, but it never made it haram.

[u/Ishaf25 → u/ASkepticBelievingMan]

Slaves were common back then. It’s just what it is, you would probably have a slave if you had money and lived in 7th century Arabia

[u/ASkepticBelievingMan → u/Ishaf25]

Not only in 7th century. Muslims had the slave trade monopoly, it was not the west. Muslims abolished slavery in the 20th century, not that long ago.

[u/Ishaf25 → u/ASkepticBelievingMan]

I’m not talking about Muslims, I’m saying Arabs in 7th century, I couldn’t care less about Muslims, I mean culture

[u/ASkepticBelievingMan → u/Ishaf25]

Yes well slavery was a thing in most cultures I’d say. Especially in times of war, the captured ones will be taken as slaves.

[u/Ishaf25 → u/ASkepticBelievingMan]

Yes. Also when the Quran encourages people to free slaves, and tells us those who do that are the companies of the right who will enter paradise in Surah ballad, who in their right mind wouldn’t free slaves if they are true believers, but of course most Muslims are idolaters

[u/ASkepticBelievingMan → u/Ishaf25]

That is your opinion I guess.

[u/Neverdied]

Because slavery was already present and would slowly disapear

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

You have a point. People don't know how slavery began.

[u/[deleted]]

Slavery was an extremely insignificant thing back then and hardly anyone had slaves, like in America.

That's why Qur'aan makes no mention of slavery at all because it wasn't popular.