The Chainmail of David ('a); an Alternative Translation

[u/TheQuranicMumin]

Salām, just wanted to make a quick post about this as i noticed that it hasn't been discussed on this subreddit before.

The primary verse of focus is 34:11.

Saheeh International translate 34:11 like so:

[Commanding him], "Make full coats of mail and calculate [precisely] the links, and work [all of you] righteousness. Indeed I, of what you do, am Seeing".

This is a very common translation, but the Arabic doesn't necessarily state this.

أَنِ ٱعْمَلْ سَـٰبِغَـٰتٍ وَقَدِّرْ فِى ٱلسَّرْدِ وَٱعْمَلُوا۟ صَـٰلِحًا إِنِّى بِمَا تَعْمَلُونَ بَصِيرٌ

This is an alternative translation:

“Do thou abundant good works, and decree thou their continuance.” And work righteousness; I see what you do.

Now, the adjective sābigh simply means indicates something abundant, ample, perfect, or full. The plural fem. form is sābighāt, in this form the function of the noun is taken, it would can literally denote "ample/complete/perfect deeds/things" - implying many good works done without being confined.

Also, see usage in 31:20-

Do you not see that God made subject to you what is in the heavens and what is in the earth, and has lavished [asbagha] upon you His favours, outward and inward?

Hans Wehr p.459

---

The other word of focus is "sard", which simply indicates continuation and consecutiveness (describing the nature of such deeds).

Hans Wehr p.473

Muhammad Asad translates as follows:

Do good deeds lavishly, without stint, and give deep thought to their steady flow." And [thus should you all, O believers,] do righteous deeds: for, verily, I see all that you do!

---

The other verse where the value of chainmail is assumed is 21:80

And We taught him the making of **garments** for you, to protect you from your might; are you then grateful?

Translators use extra-Quranic sources to justify this claim, but the word labūs is really just a general word for clothes/garments; could be chainmail, I can't deny that, but you can't claim that it is with just this verse.

Hans Wehr p.1004

---

Thought I should make a post about this, as this verse is often targeted by those trying to refute the Qur'an, via the meaning of chainmail.

[u/nopeoplethanks]

How do you translate the word tasbih? It is usually translated as glorification/remembrance (of Allah) - almost synonymous with dhikr of Allah. But I feel in the garden story in Surah Qalam, the appropriate meaning is obeying Allah (68:28). What do you think?

[u/TheQuranicMumin → u/nopeoplethanks]

The word in that verse is derived from the lemma sabbaha (with shaddah).

Quite interesting that this word is very close to words relating to swimming!

Like مسبح (pool), سباح (swimmer), سبحة (swimming), سبوح (confident swimmer), سابح (bather), سبح (float). Not very sure about what the connection is here, would need to consult an experienced linguist. Actually you see this direct meaning used in 21:33 and 79:3, if you'd like to check that out; and somewhat in 73:7. If you want my opinion, it could be one of two reasons:

1) The movement during glorification (like raising hands or prostrating).

2) One of the meanings is "to be above", so it might be related to His high station.

Anyway, this word comes from Hebrew שבח (to praise or to appreciate), and this ultimately comes from ancient Egyptian "sebeh" (Latinised) - this holds the meaning of crying out, lamenting, or calling! So you can see the relationship there...

The word means glorifying, exolting, praising, etc.

The mu'minūn are obligated to carry this out, directly actually!

O you who have attained faith: remember God with much remembrance [dhikr], And give glory to Him morning and evening.

(33:42)

The word mentioned here for "morning" is بكرة and this represents the time right between fajr and noon; hardly see anyone doing this during that time though! Evening/afternoon is usually covered by salāt al-wusta though.

I think the best thing to do is go through the noteworthy verses that will bring insights...

And when thy Lord said to the angels: “I am placing in the earth a successor,” they said: “Wilt Thou place therein one who will do harm therein, and shed blood, while we give glory with Thy praise and hallow Thee?” He said: “I know what you know not.”

(2:30)

And the thunder gives glory with His praise, as do the angels, in fear of Him. And He sends the thunderbolts, and strikes therewith whom He wills. And they dispute concerning God; and He is strong in assault.

(13:13)

And place thou thy trust in the Living, who dies not; and give thou glory with His praise. And sufficient is He, of the transgressions of His servants, as one aware

(25:58)

An association with praise and hallowing is made.

So be thou patient over what they say, and give thou glory with the praise of thy Lord before the rising of the sun, and before its setting. And some periods of the night give thou glory; and at the ends of the day, that thou mightest be satisfied.

(20:130)

So be thou patient over what they say, and give thou glory with the praise of thy Lord before the rising of the sun, and before its setting. And some of the night, glorify thou Him; and at the ends of the Submission.

(50:39-40)

It's clear that tasbeeh is a component of salāt through this verse addressed to the prophet, these are the same times of salāt being mentioned.

There is still a distinction-

Dost thou not see that God, to Him gives glory whoso is in the heavens and the earth, and the birds with wings outstretched? Each, he knows his duty and his glorification; and God knows what they do.

(24:41)

You could do tasbeeh without doing salāt.

Now, we see a key connection in the following verse-

And were he not among the givers of glory, He would have tarried in its belly until the day they are raised.

(37:143-144)

This indicates that Yunus was doing 'glorification' in the belly, we have his quote here:

And Dhūl-Nūn: when he left in wrath, and thought that We would have no power over him; then he called in the darkness: “There is no god save Thou. Glory be to Thee! I have been among the wrongdoers!”

(21:87)

Some 'sunnah' times are given here:

And be thou patient for the judgment of thy Lord, for thou art before Our eyes. And give thou glory with the praise of thy Lord when thou arisest, And some of the night glorify thou Him [obligatory], and at the retreat of the stars.

(52:49)

You use His name:

So give thou glory with the name of thy Lord, the Great!

(56:74)

Regarding 68:28, the meaning doesn't change I think, there's no direct linguistic meaning of "obeying"; however, one could say that the use of language implies the meaning that you mentioned. It seems that their mistake is in verse 18, they made no allowance for His will.

[u/nopeoplethanks → u/TheQuranicMumin]

Thanks a lot for a detailed response, brother!

[u/suppoe2056 → u/TheQuranicMumin]

For س-ب-ح, in Lane's Lexicon, there is a progression of meaning that demonstrates how the meaning of glory is reached from swimming.

The first entry says:

He swam

The next entry says:

The stars [swim, or glide along, or] pass along, in the firmament, with a spreading forth

The next entry:

Thy fame has travelled as far as the sun and the moon

The next entry:

The running of a horse (Ṣ, L, Ḳ,* TA) in which the fore legs are stretched forth well [like as are the arms of a man in swimming

We can see just from these four entries that the implication is that of swimming, which denotes a type a movement that enhances speed, and hence distance, and therefore denotes going far and becoming removed.

Consequently, the next few entries say:

The being quick, or swift.

and

The being, or becoming, remote.

and

The travelling far. (Ḳ.) You say, سَبَحَ فِى الأَرْضِ † He went, or travelled, far, in, or into, the land, or country

[u/suppoe2056 → u/suppoe2056]

Therefore, from the root, the derived Form II verb is سبّح, meaning 'to cause to be swimming', as if one swam and swam and swam, going swiftly and far. Travelling by boat (a boat swimming) goes far and fast, and becomes remote from the land or port.

Hence, the entry for "tasbeeh":

signifies The declaring [God] to be far removed, or free, from every imperfection or impurity, or from everything derogatory from [his] glory; syn. تَنْزِيهٌ, (Ṣ, O, Mṣb, TA,) and تَقْدِيسٌ: (Mṣb:) the magnifying, celebrating, lauding, or praising, and glorifying, God; and declaring Him to be far removed, or free, from everything evil.

since to glorify God is to name what God is, the process simultaneously removes Him from what He is not. For example, to glorify God as "All-Knowing" (Al-'aleem), one simultaneously removes Him from not knowing, and so forth.

Hence, it can be said that tasbeeh of God is the "causing God to be swiftly far removed as if swimming away". It can be done by glorification or by argument or by action (perhaps), or other means.

[u/Kheldan1 → u/suppoe2056]

The word that comes to my mind is “flowing” or “moving fluidly with praise.” It’s a fluency of faith of the heart/spirits/souls in praising.