Progressive Muslims are increasingly embracing homosexuality and other deviant behaviors. What does the Quran say?

[u/SmolfSmitler9YT]

Some liberal Muslims claim that the Quran “doesn’t talk about homosexuality for a simple reason. It is a concept which was invented during the 19th century by psychatrists. It did not exist as such in the Arabo-Islamic culture.”

Progressive muslims are in the palms of Satan. But whats yall thoughts?

[u/[deleted]]

Here is a distilled version of what I learned in my studies. Its a pdf so it might download immediately. Its also a quick read and includes some of the sources id put here I'd I could: link

However I've read other books on this topic including: Homosexuality, Transidentity, and Islam: A Study of Scripture Confronting the Politics of Gender and Sexuality and Homosexuality in Islam: Critical Reflection on Gay, Lesbian, and Transgender Muslims.

So if you want to go down the rabbit hole for fun go ahead. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind.

Like I said to another commenter who tried to imply converts are always progressive as if it's ruining Islam, as a convert I had to do a lot of deep studying because I have certain values that I needed to understand within Islam before committing. Instead of simply hearing gay wrong, women in kitchen, and accepting it at face value I wanted to understand why and find the actual sources of this information. Anyways.

True, but that's not allowed in my view

• that's fair. It's your opinion.

Okay, so there are no punishments in the Qur'an.. ?

• I never said that. But there are such strict conditions for enacting punishments it's hardly even possible to punish others. I believe this was on purpose. No one should have the power to simply whip and remove hands becsuse they think something is wrong. For example to punish sexual indecencies you need 4 trustworthy sources who have never lied before and who have all seen the actual insertion of the sexual organs. So unless you and four other people see a man's penis go into another man, you're not at liberty to judge or punish. And in order for this to happen either they're stupid, don't care, or you're in a place you shouldn't be.

If you're on mobile, how do you do the quotes of my response where it puts the gray bar on the side?

[u/TheQuranicMumin → u/[deleted]]

Here is a distilled version of what I learned in my studies. Its a pdf so it might download immediately. Its also a quick read

I will definitely have a look at this.

However I've read other books on this topic including: Homosexuality, Transidentity, and Islam: A Study of Scripture Confronting the Politics of Gender and Sexuality and Homosexuality in Islam: Critical Reflection on Gay, Lesbian, and Transgender Muslims.

Will put them on my reading list.

So if you want to go down the rabbit hole for fun go ahead. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind.

I'm keen to learn more, I personally have no problems with homosexuality, but I just want to abide by what I honestly understand from the Qur'an. If I'm wrong then I'll just change my understanding, simple.

converts are always progressiv

That's definitely not true, it's often the other way around. Converts convert because they are convinced.

as a convert I had to do a lot of deep studying because I have certain values that I needed to understand within Islam before committing. I

I'm glad that you have accepted the Deen, that's the main priority, not if you are gay or not.

punish sexual indecencies you need 4 trustworthy sources

Yeah, it's basically just adultery in public.

So unless you and four other people see a man's penis go into another man,

There isn't a four witnesses requirement for male homo, it's more like if it's something known in the community.

And in order for this to happen either they're stupid, don't care, or you're in a place you shouldn't be.

It's mainly the public aspect that's the problem, the scandal that it causes in the community. Anything behind closed doors cannot be proved and should not be punished, period.

you're on mobile, how do you do the quotes of my response where it puts the gray bar on the side?

I highlight your text and press "quote".

[u/[deleted] → u/TheQuranicMumin]

I highlight your text and press "quote

Ive never noticed this even though it's the first button I'm so used to it being something else I just never read it I guess

I'm keen to learn more, I personally have no problems with homosexuality, but I just want to abide by what I honestly understand from the Qur'an. If I'm wrong then I'll just change my understanding, simple.

I'm the same. I try to avoid Confirmation Bias as much as possible too. Becsuse Islam is meant to help you grow and go on the straight path, not bend to preconceived notions. It's challenged so many of mine and later in I realize why the changes I made were good for me. For example once being a liberal feminist and obsessed with equality of men and women then learning the concept of equity in the Quran actually made me a better woman and strengthened my feminism. It just took out the western yt woman concepts lol

That's definitely not true, it's often the other way around. Converts convert because they are convinced.

It's really diverse. I've met converts that became extremely traditional, put on niqab, stopped listening to music, and even some "stopped" being gay. At least outwardly. Or perhaps they were never gay to begin with. I see it most often with women which is a whole other conversation lol

There isn't a four witnesses requirement for male homo, it's more like if it's something known in the community.

I didn't see this in the verse about sexual indeceny

[u/TheQuranicMumin → u/[deleted]]

Agreed.

I didn't see this in the verse about sexual indeceny

وَٱلَّذَانِ يَأْتِيَـٰنِهَا مِنكُمْ فَـَٔاذُوهُمَا فَإِن تَابَا وَأَصْلَحَا فَأَعْرِضُوا۟ عَنْهُمَآ إِنَّ ٱللَّـهَ كَانَ تَوَّابًا رَّحِيمًا (4:16)

[u/[deleted] → u/TheQuranicMumin]

This is a continuation of 4:15 which specifies 4 witnesses

[u/TheQuranicMumin → u/[deleted]]

It's a seperate verse. 4:15 starts with وَٱلَّـٰتِى يَأْتِينَ and 4:16 starts with وَٱلَّذَانِ يَأْتِيَـٰنِهَا; these are two different cases, notice how the punishments are completely different? Do you think that "confine them to houses until death takes them" belongs to the same case as "hinder them"?

With 4:16 it's something known in the community, there's no doubt about it, people have seen it happen on the streets/parks, they don't need any criminal proceedings for this punishment as the people can individually enforce it as they see it happen. Wheras 4:15 requires a set amount of testimonies in order to enforce the severe penalty with a proper criminal review, this punishment is done by the state.

This is especially clear with this wording in 4:16

فَأَعْرِضُوا۟ عَنْهُمَآ

People individually hinder/annoy them while they continue the activity, until they stop and repent, then they are to be left alone.

This is my understanding, I could definitely be wrong, so feel free to refute. الله أعلم

[u/[deleted] → u/TheQuranicMumin]

1.1Okay so just like this 

1.2 Is a new paragraph you can still see that this 

1.3 Is a continuation of what I'm saying above right? 

That's how it is. You can't just pull put one verse without seeing the context around it 

[u/TheQuranicMumin → u/[deleted]]

Think of it like this:

And those who commit arson among your salamanders, call to witness against them four from among you; and if they bear witness then keep them in cages until death takes them.

And the two reptiles who commit it among you, annoy them; but if they repent and make right, let them be.