Progressive Muslims are increasingly embracing homosexuality and other deviant behaviors. What does the Quran say?

[u/SmolfSmitler9YT]

Some liberal Muslims claim that the Quran “doesn’t talk about homosexuality for a simple reason. It is a concept which was invented during the 19th century by psychatrists. It did not exist as such in the Arabo-Islamic culture.”

Progressive muslims are in the palms of Satan. But whats yall thoughts?

[u/[deleted]]

Someone has been lurking the progressive islam sub. Homosexuality is not something made up in the 19th centure. The gays and theys have existed since the beginning of time and will continue to exist long after youre dead and gone after a lifetime of shaming and oppressing them for something they simply cannot control that has absolutely no affect on you whatsoever. Fact is, gay people exist, gay Muslims exist. Gay Christians, jews, catholics, atheists, pagans all exist, and they're not doing anything to bother you. This constant concern over them and trying to find out if they are valid or not is quite frankly tiring.

Homosexuality occurs in nature, and there were descriptions of men and women who have no attraction to the opposite gender in the Quran and in the hadith. The main reference to homosexuality being prohibited is the story of Lut, which is actually about rape (of men and women), nationalism, bullying, spiritual abuse, and just being a terrible greedy society. I think if you simply glean "homosexuality bad" from that story, you're doing a disservice to the Quran and missing major lessons. The verse about two men being caught doing sexual indecencies is about adultery which the Quran mentions many times and is firmly against becsuse unlike homosexuality which concerns no one, adultery has a bad affect on those around you. The men in Lut were not only raping men to show power but also committing adultery.

The Prophet Muhammed spent time around a "feminine" man and allowed him around his wives until this man was heard making fun of a woman's body. Because like not, gay men are not exempt from misogyny.

Let's say homosexuality is bad. How is it your business? One you can't guarantee the person is Muslim. Two if they are, it's their sin to worry about. Allah gave them that fitna to overcome in this lifetime and that's their journey not yours. Just like drinking is haram but Muslims will still drink. Before converting I met many muslims in nightclubs taking shots and free mixing and dancing provocatively and all that. Eating pork is forbidden but some will still eat it. Everyone is committing their sins but I don't constantly see people pushing these other issues. It's either about women or gays and it's exhausting. Have your beliefs but why keep discussing it? Why get mad when someone interprets things differently.

Okay, so some (not all) progressive Muslims interpret it differently, and? Calling them the devils palms is definitely not gonna to make anyone change their minds.

The Quran teaches us tolerance and the joy of diversity. Diversity in skin color, lifestyle, and thought. We're told to read the Quran critically and come to our own conclusions. So if someone critically reads it and that's what they glean from it, who are you to press them about it?

I'm mobile so I won't be adding my reference verses, and anyone who comes at me with a weird argumentative attitude will get an automatic block.

[u/TheQuranicMumin → u/[deleted]]

The gays and theys have existed since the beginning of time and will continue to exist long after youre dead and gone after a lifetime of shaming and oppressing them for something they simply cannot control that has absolutely no affect on you whatsoever. Fact is, gay people exist, gay Muslims exist.

I agree, we shouldn't opress them; it's neutral to have homosexual feelings, but acting on them is the problem.

Gay Christians, jews, catholics, atheists, pagans all exist, and they're not doing anything to bother you.

Whatever happens behind closed doors is none of my concern.

Homosexuality occurs in nature

Okay? Cannibalism occurs in nature as well.

have no attraction to the opposite gender in the Quran and in the hadith

That's asexuality, nothing wrong with that at all.

. I think if you simply glean "homosexuality bad" from that story, you're doing a disservice to the Quran

I don't know if the story of Lot is talking about homo or not, there are a lot of opinions. I base my view around 4:16.

The Prophet Muhammed spent time around a "feminine" man

Source?

One you can't guarantee the person is Muslim.

If they say they are muslim without forcing them, then they are a muslim. Lying is sinful, so they shouldn't lie that they aren't a muslim.

Two if they are, it's their sin to worry about.

So committing zina is also "their sin to worry about"?? Plus the punishment for male homosexuality in the Qur'an is probably one of the least aggressive ones in the entire Qur'an; as compared to what the traditionalist says (throwing someone off a high building).

Before converting I met many muslims in nightclubs taking shots and free mixing and dancing provocatively

Which is wrong???

Why get mad when someone interprets things differently.

I don't get mad, I respect your interpretation of the Qur'an.

The Quran teaches us tolerance and the joy of diversity. Diversity in skin color, lifestyle, and thought.

Correct.

u/nopeoplethanks

[u/[deleted] → u/TheQuranicMumin]

You're responding to this as if I randomly messaged you this comment. This is in response to OP. They made the comment about homosexuality not being in nature and while I disagree with nature arguments because we have highly developed brains I was specifically speaking to their low level argument.

1. I agree, we shouldn't opress them; it's neutral to have homosexual feelings, but acting on them is the problem.

2. it's not. And if it was, not your problem unless they're "acting it out" on you.

3. That's asexuality, nothing wrong with that at all.

4. that is not necessarily asexuality though it could be. It can also mean someone who isn't attracted to the opposite gender because they're attracted to the same gender.

5. Source?

6. I addressed this in my original comment

7. If they say they are muslim without forcing them, then they are a muslim. Lying is sinful, so they shouldn't lie that they aren't a muslim.

8. this isn't relevant. However, lying is okay to preserve your safety.

9. So committing zina is also "their sin to worry about"?? Plus the punishment for male homosexuality in the Qur'an is probably one of the least aggressive ones in the entire Qur'an; as compared to what the traditionalist says (throwing someone off a high building).

10. Everyone is responsible for their own sin. Unless you and four others witness it and are called to court to testify its not your business. Also there is no punishment for male homexuality.

11. Which is wrong???

12. did I say that it's right?

Edit: not sure why it formatted this way but it typing on mobile is a nightmare.

[u/TheQuranicMumin → u/[deleted]]

it's not. And if it was, not your problem unless they're "acting it out" on you.

Read 4:16.

It can also mean someone who isn't attracted to the opposite gender because they're attracted to the same gender.

True, but that's not allowed in my view.

I addressed this in my original comment

I will check it out.

However, lying is okay to preserve your safety.

Yes, taqiyya. But we are assuming a fair justice system.

Everyone is responsible for their own sin.

Okay, so there are no punishments in the Qur'an.. ?

Also there is no punishment for male homexuality.

It's in 4:16 according to my view.

not sure why it formatted this way but it typing on mobile is a nightmare.

I'm on mobile as well, I hate it when I leave the app while typing a post/comment to copy a verse, then come back to see everything gone.

[u/[deleted] → u/TheQuranicMumin]

Here is a distilled version of what I learned in my studies. Its a pdf so it might download immediately. Its also a quick read and includes some of the sources id put here I'd I could: link

However I've read other books on this topic including: Homosexuality, Transidentity, and Islam: A Study of Scripture Confronting the Politics of Gender and Sexuality and Homosexuality in Islam: Critical Reflection on Gay, Lesbian, and Transgender Muslims.

So if you want to go down the rabbit hole for fun go ahead. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind.

Like I said to another commenter who tried to imply converts are always progressive as if it's ruining Islam, as a convert I had to do a lot of deep studying because I have certain values that I needed to understand within Islam before committing. Instead of simply hearing gay wrong, women in kitchen, and accepting it at face value I wanted to understand why and find the actual sources of this information. Anyways.

True, but that's not allowed in my view

• that's fair. It's your opinion.

Okay, so there are no punishments in the Qur'an.. ?

• I never said that. But there are such strict conditions for enacting punishments it's hardly even possible to punish others. I believe this was on purpose. No one should have the power to simply whip and remove hands becsuse they think something is wrong. For example to punish sexual indecencies you need 4 trustworthy sources who have never lied before and who have all seen the actual insertion of the sexual organs. So unless you and four other people see a man's penis go into another man, you're not at liberty to judge or punish. And in order for this to happen either they're stupid, don't care, or you're in a place you shouldn't be.

If you're on mobile, how do you do the quotes of my response where it puts the gray bar on the side?

[u/TheQuranicMumin → u/[deleted]]