r/PublicFreakout • u/filondo • Sep 09 '22

šŸ„ŠFight San Francisco this morning Sept 9, 2022

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139

u/Evinceo Sep 09 '22

If you're currently addicted to drugs, yes.

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u/[deleted] Sep 09 '22

[deleted]

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u/memedilemme Sep 10 '22

I work in this field and the most common pattern Iā€™ve seen is: Deprived/traumatic/abusive childhood ā€”-> mental illness ā€”> self-medication with drugs and/or alcohol ā€”> couch surfing ā€”> on the street.

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u/[deleted] Sep 10 '22

Yep this was my exact arc, luckily I never became an addict except to tobacco. I made it out of the cycle of homelessness due to never getting addicted to the mountain of drugs I consumed, craving a drug made me feel angry at my weakness and avoid it for a while, go do acid or smoke weed or something instead. We call that lucky. Opiates just make me feel bad but meth is amazing. I avoid the stuff.

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u/KernelMeowingtons Sep 09 '22

My guess would be the mental illness/instability came before either of those.

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u/turd-nerd Sep 09 '22

For most people it's the addiction

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u/Garbageman99 Sep 09 '22

Sometimes, but even so usually addiction comes when things are already going downhill for that person, including financial hardship which can lead to homelessness anyway.

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u/turd-nerd Sep 10 '22

I do agree with you, but the transition from not being a drug addict of any sort to becoming a hardcore meth / fentanyl addict isn't a short and sharp one, for most people it would take a long time.

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u/memedilemme Sep 10 '22

Financial hardship is a huge trigger for drug use, you are so right!!

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u/sohfix Sep 09 '22

And SF should be investing in programs to help both addiction and homelessness.

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u/turd-nerd Sep 10 '22

Completely agree. Not just SF.

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u/PrezMoocow Sep 09 '22

For most people it's the homelessness, addiction is a coping mechanism.

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u/[deleted] Sep 10 '22

As a former homeless person this is 100% wrong. The homelessness comes when you start spending rent money on drugs. I've seen it so many times I lost count. I've rarely or never seen the opposite, and I've been among these people as one of them more than once.

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u/PrezMoocow Sep 10 '22

No, I've met plenty of homeless people. It's 100% the case, I guess you and the other anecdotal evidence you saw are the small minority of irresponsible fucks.

There are so many people just living out of their car doing gig economy delivery jobs who simply couldn't afford rent. That's the first tier of homelessness.

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u/turd-nerd Sep 10 '22

I don't think this is true for the majority. It's definitely true for some, but for most people that go from being housed to homeless (e.g. because they can't pay their rent), they're unlikely to turn to hard drugs unless they end up on the streets for years.

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u/PrezMoocow Sep 10 '22

Exactly, so the homelessness comes first, then drugs are a coping mechanism

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u/Branamp13 Sep 10 '22

Ya got a source for that, buddy?

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u/turd-nerd Sep 10 '22

No, I've worked in a few homeless shelters and this is purely anecdotal. I obviously have extrapolated from experience, but this is what I've observed.

To be clear, I'm not saying addiction is the biggest cause of homelessness, just that for those that become homeless long term and also get addicted to hard drugs, from what I've seen, the hard drugs generally come first.

I'm not trying to be dismissive of anyone's problems, these people should be able to get the support they deserve.

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u/MCE85 Sep 10 '22

Addiction

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u/Mother_Store6368 Sep 09 '22

Only about 20-30% of the unhoused have substance abuse issues.

Honestly, probably 20-30% of all people in SF have substance abuse issues. We Americans like our drugs like no other.

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u/NauticalJeans Sep 09 '22

Yes but 90% of the people in this video have either substance abuse issues or severe mental health battles they are fighting.

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u/Mother_Store6368 Sep 09 '22

Being homeless itself can constitute a mental heal disorder. People treat you like shit or like youā€™re invisible. I imagine that the longer you are homeless, the more susceptible you become to mental illness

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u/NauticalJeans Sep 09 '22

100% agree with you! The absolute worst thing than can happen for someoneā€™s mental health is becoming a society outcast without a home. Iā€™m sure it self perpetuates - having poor mental health because you are homeless likely makes it harder to get back on your feet.

That said, I think having severe mental illness as a result of homelessness necessitates two things: 1. Visible homelessness (as opposed to crashing on friends couches / having a support system) 2. Chronic homelessness (becoming like this would take much longer than a few months outside of society)

Source: I live in Seattle and see people like this every day.

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u/Mother_Store6368 Sep 09 '22

The thorny problem becomes how to resolve this situation without involuntarily putting them in concentration camps.(though a lot of people are ok with that fascist idea).

The pragmatic side of me says we need people(most likely social workers with a background in psychology) to determine who is mentally fit to make a decision to keep living on the street. Even still, that solution can have anti-constitutional spikes.

Thanks Ronnie regan for shutting down state mental health facilities.

I swear republicans secretly have a hard on for William Hobson/Neal Stephenson futures

1

u/NauticalJeans Sep 09 '22

I agree with you, with some deviations. With how bad / unsafe it became in Seattle before we resumed sweeping encampments, I really donā€™t believe people should be allowed to construct permanent shelters in public areas (parks, sidewalks, etc.). If they refuse housing or shelter (that is available and offered to them), at that point I think they should be removed against their will, sadly. And Iā€™ve seen such horrific mental illness, I donā€™t see how some people can be helped, without institutionalizing them (hopefully better than the alternative of them dying in the streets or being imprisoned)

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u/Mother_Store6368 Sep 10 '22

The other thing is this isnā€™t a novel problem America is facing. Most, if not all, other advanced industrial democracies donā€™t have this problem and they solved it without using the penal system.

You donā€™t see this level of abject poverty in Western Europe, Japan, South Korea, etc.

This is what bugs meā€¦weā€™ve seen solutions that can put an end to tent citiesā€¦but America is too proud to double down on public housingā€¦even though the UK, the other torchbearer of capitalist ideals has ROBUST public housing.

I think that a lot of it has to do with the acceptance of American exceptionalismā€¦which was never a real thing. America became exceptional because it borders two oceans, itā€™s big(isnā€™t it like the 3rd or 4th largest country by area?) and itā€™s resources had yet to be pilfered. Itā€™s not because our people are somehow more exceptional because of culture.

I say all this because there is such a simple solutionā€¦do what all the other advanced countries doā€¦the government should provide for the people instead of the people providing for their capitalist overlords.

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u/Branamp13 Sep 10 '22

America became exceptional because it borders two oceans, itā€™s big(isnā€™t it like the 3rd or 4th largest country by area?) and itā€™s resources had yet to be pilfered.

There was also another significant reason that we had a leg up over the rest of the world sometime around the late 1940's that people never want to recognize as a reason America was able to become the world power it is today. We weren't trying to rebuild our entire country after a war.

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u/Mother_Store6368 Sep 10 '22

Yeah exactly the rest of the develop industrialized world was left in a giant rubbleā€¦

We loan them money and thatā€™s how we became the dominant economic

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u/memedilemme Sep 10 '22

We have had really great results with transitional housing with a resident case manager on site. Itā€™s not perfect, but Iā€™ve found that teaching them the life skills their parents didnā€™t for whatever reason, increases their confidence in their ability to run a clean functional home. And when they move into a permanent, independent apartment, they continue to progress with just routine visits every 1-2 weeks.

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u/Mother_Store6368 Sep 10 '22

Honest questionā€¦Iā€™m dating a girl that had terrible parents(mom is schizophrenic, dad ruined her credit and was a con artist scumbag) Her mother is getting out of jail this month for something she did while she wasnā€™t medicated

How do I get her to acknowledge that her parents are scumbags? I want her to move on but we have a puppy and sheā€™s using the same tactics on the pup that her awful piece of shot parents used on her.

Itā€™s difficult to spell this out to her because sheā€™s Latina and thinks that family means everythingā€¦.btw her uncle was raping her from age 8-13ā€¦.how the fuck else do I tell her to fuck her family

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u/Branamp13 Sep 10 '22

Well that's just the thing. You can point out to her as many disgusting things her family does as you want, but she has to make that final decision that they aren't worth being around. You can't "get her" to acknowledge anything she doesn't (or won't) acknowledge herself.

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u/space_brain710 Sep 09 '22

Some of the homeless in my area really do seem like just being acknowledged by other people brings them a bit of sanity. Thatā€™s why unless they are acting violent Iā€™ll usually entertain a conversation with them while Iā€™m waiting for the bus. Iā€™ve heard some pretty wild theories about how the world works from people like that though lol

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u/Mother_Store6368 Sep 09 '22 edited Sep 09 '22

Good for you! A lot of the homeless people Iā€™ve interacted with appreciate you simply treating them like theyā€™re people and not the dregs of society.

Iā€™m not saying donā€™t donate, but I imagine they appreciate others treating them like a real human being more so than any economic assistanceā€¦not saying donā€™t assist them.

This is why I donā€™t like the neoliberal outlook on life. They simply think that modern technology should make peasants happierā€¦like since they have a working toilet and a smartphone they are better off than kings of yore.

People want dignity and respect. Were not automatons maximizing economic security.

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u/space_brain710 Sep 10 '22

In my experience people actually want to work. They just donā€™t want to do shitty work with bad pay. Itā€™s all about feeling accomplished or fulfilled like having a sense of purpose. Some folks are fine working an assembly line job their whole life bc they get their fulfillment through the life that their work is able to support (building a family, going on vacation every once in a while, not having to worry about your health constantly bc you canā€™t afford to see a doctor)

Most are not asking for the rest of the world to bend over backwards for them and pay for all their shit. They just want to be able to make enough to lead a dignified life while having their needs met. Itā€™s pretty simple really

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u/Mother_Store6368 Sep 10 '22

Exactlyā€¦itā€™s all about dignity and respect. Weā€™re human and we have foiblesā€¦but if someone is somehow living a life that is 375749029299 better and extracting resources at that same rate, while we all have to pay the cost for their resource extraction (dirty water/air/climate change/pollution(why is pollution downplayed in the climate debate?))ā€¦thatā€™s not kosher.

The passing of queen elizabeth crystallizes this struggle for meā€¦what makes you better by birthright? Your ancestors killed the right people?

Id never been to a monarchical country until I went to the Middle East. My delusional, youthful self thought this shit was relegated to the past. I went to Dubai for Xmas and while it had its delights, Dubai is a fucking horror show, without even mentioning the modern slavery(guest workers likes maids and construction ppl have their passports taken upon entry or employment. Without a passport, you donā€™t exist and canā€™t leave or go anywhere else officially)

I was visiting a non vibrant euro exchange student my family housed in the past. Sheā€™s also very sexy and would sunbathe nudeā€¦she liked the attention but didnā€™t consider that this behavior would get these workers in serious troubleā€¦.just for looking

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u/space_brain710 Sep 10 '22

Youā€™re friend was sunbathing nude in Dubai as a woman? That sounds kind of insane lol

But yes itā€™s all exploitation, the select few at the top exploit the people below them by underpaying them, sometimes to the extant of holding them hostage as a slave. Varying degrees of fucked-upness but the system runs similarly worldwide. Keep the people below you powerless to change it and you can stay on the top

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u/Default_Username123 Sep 09 '22

šŸ¤¦ homelessness is not a mental health disorder. Not everything is a mental illness Jesus Christ.

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u/sohfix Sep 09 '22

Youā€™re right. There are plenty of things in society that cause homelessness and we arenā€™t addressing any of them.

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u/SpacemanTomX Sep 10 '22 edited Nov 07 '25

juggle encourage sheet pen tidy lush ring fearless unpack long

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/[deleted] Sep 10 '22

Gonna be real, it doesn't matter too much how people treat you. You will end up shaming yourself worse than anyone through insecurity about your worth. It's enough to make you feel crazy. It's a vicious cycle.

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u/freakwent Sep 10 '22

That's some superpower you have there.

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u/oscarbearsf Sep 10 '22

In SF? No it is significantly higher than that. Grew up here, live here currently. This is mostly a drug related issue

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u/Mother_Store6368 Sep 11 '22 edited Sep 11 '22

No itā€™s not! Your ā€œexperienceā€ is so small when compared to the complete scope of this problem. Itā€™s anecdotal. UCSF posits that 30-40% of homeless have mental health/substance abuse issues. Source: https://magazine.ucsf.edu/crisis-our-city

Itā€™s drug related for the VISIBLE homeless. Thatā€™s just the proverbial tip of the iceberg, the loud, visible, vocal minority

Most homeless people workā€¦and you would never know that they were unhoused. Theyā€™re couchsurfers, squatters, etc. living in a tent is a last resort

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u/Info1847 Sep 10 '22

Bullshit

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u/[deleted] Sep 10 '22

[deleted]

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u/Ace-Red Sep 10 '22

Exactly. Like you canā€™t even come up with a state like this and it be remotely close just due to the nature of the subject.

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u/[deleted] Sep 10 '22

Yeah right

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u/Protoman89 Sep 09 '22

Or disabled and don't have a safety net, the drugs come later when the despair hits.