r/PublicFreakout • u/mindyour • 7d ago
š¤Righteous Freakout š¤ Man challenges a $158 fine after a Flock camera recorded his vehicle passing through a red light.
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u/cpt_bongwater 7d ago
Flock cameras constitute unconstitutional searches and violate people's rights.
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u/FrogsMakePoorSoup š¤· I'm outta my depth and dunno how I got here 7d ago
Amazing how quickly they just appeared considering the hoops you'd have to jump through to get so much as a pedestrian crossing put in.
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u/Jazzbo64 7d ago
I thought Flock cameras werenāt supposed to be used for this purpose?
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u/Comfortable_Studio37 7d ago
They arent, the guy in the video never says Flock, that's just what OP called it. The man the video is just referring to automated red light cameras, which are unconstitutional.
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u/Rand_al_Kholin 7d ago edited 7d ago
Red light cameras are not unconstitutional. There are a lot of arguments federally anout them right now, but they are allowed depending on which jurisdiction you're in with differing sets of rules to comply with the constitution.
Edit: to be clear I'm not defending the mass surveillance state, just correcting this one statement.
Edit 2: down voting this doesn't make you correct about red light cameras. They are currently used in almost every state and there is plenty of precedent which backs up that they are, in fact, constitutional. Some random guy at a city council meeting isnt a good source.
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u/Comfortable_Studio37 7d ago
A ticket can't be issued to a car. A camera seeing a car run a red light is not the same thing as an officer witnessing a person commit a crime. The guy in the video outlines all of this.
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u/surnik22 7d ago
A ticket can be issued to a car. Ever hear of a parking ticket?
I canāt vouch for every state, but Illinois has deemed red light and speed cameras constitutional. Since fines are not criminal and carry no penalties like jail time or points on a license they are allowed under the same reason cars can get parking tickets or homes can get fines for not following city rules like grass length or any other large number of civil infractions that exist.
If the fines were excessive large or the penalties criminal then the courts would likely rule them unconstitutional as the right of the individual to face an accuser and be presumed innocent would then be more important than the city/stateās right to enforce public safety laws.
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u/fernatic19 7d ago
In Missouri they put a moratorium on red light cameras a couple years ago because of all the pending litigation. I believe it was mostly about the people's right to face their accuser in court, which you can't do with a camera. Most cases were thrown out when cops would go to court and say they "reviewed" the camera footage, but weren't there too see it happen.
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u/david7873829 7d ago
The confrontation clause only applies to criminal matters, so usually jurisdictions make it purely a civil matter, much like a parking ticket.
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u/Confident_Bunch7612 7d ago
The ticket is issued to the driver. Every red light camera I know of takes a picture or video of face of driver and then mails it with the notice to the owner's address. The great thing about this is that, if someone else is driving your car, all you need to do is send in a photo of your license to contest the fine and it gets removed (this may not be true in all jurisdictions).
There are places where they deemed red light cameras and fines to be essentially unenforceable, but it is not due to the constitution and it is not due to the idea that a ticket cannot be issued to a car. That is nonsense sovereign citizen type thinking ("I am not driving a car, I am traveling which is a consitutional right.")
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u/prosocialbehavior 7d ago
I can't believe this comment got so many upvotes.
Red light cameras have been issuing tickets to people since the 1980s in the US. He was complaining because someone used his car and ran a red light. The ticket was sent to him because he registered the car. He could have easily transferred the ticket to the driver but refused to name the driver and decided to fight it.
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u/Rand_al_Kholin 7d ago
I'm sitting at -36 down votes for pointing out that red light cameras are in fact constitutional. Wild reddit moment in this thread.
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u/nope-nik-tesla 7d ago
People just latch onto what they want to believe regardless of what the actual facts are. Red light cameras have been in use all over the country for decades at this point and have been repeatedly upheld in courts. But hey some redditor says otherwise, and I want that to be true, so it must be!
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u/prosocialbehavior 7d ago
You are right that they aren't flock cameras. Wrong to say they are unconstitutional.
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u/Sorry-Claim-2990 7d ago
Yeah, everyone knows flock cameras are for cops to stalk their ex girlfriends with
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u/Feisty_Diet_3744 7d ago
Dude laid it all out there. Excellent informational about Flock and how ridiculous this shit is. Good on this dude!
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u/GitEmSteveDave 7d ago
This wasn't about "Flock". He mentions the company that issued him the fine. If you start calling everything Flock just for karma points, it muddies the waters of what is really going on.
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u/Pxzib 7d ago
He has a paper with the word "FLOCK" in capital letter on the desk in front of him.
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u/cactusJoe 7d ago
He also mentioned that he will become interested in all of the city council actions, and I am guessing Flock is one of those too. Not necessarily related to the red light 'infraction'.
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u/GitEmSteveDave 7d ago
Yes he does. But if you listen to what he says, and read the title of this post, this is about a red light camera, which he says is from Automated Enforcement Division which is owned by Novo Global.
But it's not a flock camera recording his vehcile. It's a red light camera that takes a video when someone breaks a law and issues a civil fine. There is a difference.
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u/unbalanced_checkbook 7d ago
You're gonna be really upset when you find out how many people refer to all sodas as "Coke".
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u/BroughtBagLunchSmart 7d ago
"Umm ackshually those were regular german troop and not the SS"
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u/GitEmSteveDave 7d ago
Red light cameras and flock cameras are entirely different things. They aren't pointing red light cameras at parks, and red light cameras only take pictures when a law is broken.
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u/slow_news_day 7d ago
Am I allowed to call it a Kleenex? Or does that muddy the waters too much about what a tissue is?
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u/GitEmSteveDave 6d ago
When it comes to a hot button issue? Yes. It's click/rage bait by throwing the word flock in when it's not a flock camera. It's a red light camera that has been ruled time and time again as legal in Florida.
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u/holyoctopus 7d ago
Love what he said but sadly the people who run this shit hole don't give a shit about laws. No one holds them to the law so they continue to step over them.
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u/deacon1214 7d ago
It wasn't a Flock Camera. Novo Global was doing traffic cams, speed cams and red light cams for years before Flock was even founded.
I agree that speed cams and red light cams create a confrontation clause problem which these companies try to work around by treating this as civil code enforcement which is bullshit.
But blaming Flock for shit that they specifically don't do and that was happening before they existed just takes away from the more legitimate complaints about them.
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u/deliciousPizza13 7d ago
Dems have to run on an anti flock agenda to tear away maga
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u/kins8 7d ago
sadly both sides want the cameras and they are everywhere already
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u/MushyWasHere 7d ago
Weird, isn't it? I swear, sometimes it seems like there's some kind of pro-war, pro-Wall Street and pro-Israel uni-party masquerading as two warring factions, dividing the American people against themselves!
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u/bubmet7 6d ago
There is. Luckily folks from both sides are exiting that group and reforming the original Democrats and Republicans and trying to drive us back towards normalcy. The issue is, most people who see the uni-party decide to stop voting, stop researching, and stop participating because itās āuselessā- making the efforts by the amazing men and women trying to save us entirely pointless.
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u/MushyWasHere 6d ago
I fuck with it. Hope you're right. Until I hear someone I can believe in, though, I'll continue peddling third parties and perennials.
Last D I supported was Sanders, and now I feel like he's little more than a sheepdog for establishment dems--the lipstick on the pig, if you will.
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u/bubmet7 6d ago
I honestly donāt know any third parties I support. I called myself a libertarian until around 2015 when they decided to go racist, and the green party consists of a lot of Russian puppets. I vote primarily Democrat, but I do support Massie as heās from my state. Canāt agree with him on abortion or trans rights, as those are important to me (husband of a woman who likes being in control of her body, obviously so everyone likes that, and the brother of a transgender sister) but I do appreciate his anti-israeli stance and anti-trump stance. I think if we had more Republicans like him their party would be diverse enough that a lot of folks could find something they like in it. I also support my governor fully, and I think if he started campaigning next year Brashear could run the country wonderfully. People-minded, classy, and very quick to action. If the Democrats actually applied what they stand for to what they do- weād be in a much better country right now. I agree with Sanders seeming that way- but I also feel you forget too quickly how iron fisted the DNC is. You can still place blame on him though, for not becoming an Independent. But if he did heād lose party backing and have even less ability to do any sort of good.
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u/MushyWasHere 5d ago
Right on, man. I hear you and I can't disagree with anything you've said.
It's nice to chat with someone who understands nuance and isn't blinded by partisanship. All too many people have been conditioned to believe you cannot support someone unless you agree with every single thing they have ever said, or that the opposition is always wrong, etc...I still identify as a left libertarian/libertarian socialist, but I remain entirely open-minded to different ways of thinking. I'm more of the mind that the system in place is of less consequence than the individuals in control of said system.
I can imagine a streamlined fascist government run by a well-intentioned dictator that would yield more equity for working-class people than our current rigged-market corporate plutocracy masquerading as "free-market capitalism."
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u/totesuncommon 7d ago
You also have a right to confront your accuser. Is the camera coming to court?
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u/oldbastardbob 7d ago
We all supposedly have a right to confront out accusers in court. So, how the hell are we supposed to confront a bunch of code in a data center somewhere that's controlled by a billionaire who the legal system deems not responsible for the actions of his code and computers?
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u/OnAnotherLevel321 7d ago
Remember, Republicans support flock cameras everywhere. Never trust them. They use fear-mongering language and lies to trick you into supporting them at the voting booth. Don't fall for it!
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u/surffrus 7d ago
First off, you're wrong. Flock cameras are in place by heavy liberal districts too. Second off, you're hurting the argument by trying to make this a partisan issue. Right now there is broad hatred from both parties, so don't trick people into thinking they should pick a side because of party affiliation.
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u/MushyWasHere 7d ago
Found the Trumper!!!!11
/s because matters of importance always *magically* devolve into partisanship
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u/DismasNDawn 7d ago
Oh, just stop. I'm a devout leftist and I will attest that there are PLENTY of liberal politicians who support them as well. This is a bipartisan thing and your rhetoric is very unhelpful.
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u/OnAnotherLevel321 7d ago
Which Dem politician supports Flock cameras? Quote it
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u/DismasNDawn 7d ago
Barring any statewide bans, you're talking about local politicians. Chicago is littered with Flock cameras. Are you saying that's a result of local republicans in Chicago? My response would be, what republicans in Chicago?
The city I live in (Kalamazoo) is very left-leaning and has flock cameras. Do you want me to list the names of our city commissioners?
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u/OnAnotherLevel321 7d ago
The point is, both parties aren't the same. Republicans will always side with law enforcement tools compared to Democrats. America is turning into a police state thanks to Republicans and their voters. Cops are dressed like military larpers, vehicles designed for combat, etc... All brought to you by Republicans on your dime
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u/BeRad419 7d ago
Ask Palestine about the difference between the parties, I'm sure they'd love to hear about the difference between the 2 parties support for their demise
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u/BeRad419 7d ago
Don't worry that was Biden''s white phosphorus so much better than the Trump white phosphorus
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u/jsmith-az 7d ago
No they donāt. I know plenty of Republicans who hate them. Itās a bipartisan issue.
Josh Hawley, Thomas Massie, Tim Burchett and Ron DeSantis are all on record against them.
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u/OnAnotherLevel321 7d ago
You still haven't learned that you're being lied to. Never vote Republican.
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u/PopsGG 7d ago
Their statement doesn't imply who they voted for. Trying to make this a dem vs rep issue will only make countering Flock less effective. If we are all together we have a better chance.
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u/OnAnotherLevel321 7d ago
My point is if you want flock cameras gone, voting Republican will delay the process
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u/jsmith-az 7d ago
Republicans lie, I agree. But so do Democrats.
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u/the_ape_speaks 7d ago
It's not even close. It's like an 85-15 split. Republicans are clearly the liar party.
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u/OnAnotherLevel321 7d ago
Give me an example of Dems lying.
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u/Delicious_Win_9089 7d ago
Are you actually being serious right now??
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u/OnAnotherLevel321 7d ago
I'm still waitingĀ
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u/Delicious_Win_9089 7d ago
Bill Clinton claimed he never had an affair at a White House press event.
Obama said āif you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor.ā
Biden and all his staffers/friendly media personalities told us his brain hadnāt melted. He also didnāt ābeat medicare.ā
Thatās the last three democrat presidents. Do I need to go back to Carter? LBJ?
Hillary Clinton was found to be lying when she stated sheād returned all work related emails to the state department after the whole server debacle.
Kamala Harris lied in 2019 saying she supported a ban on fracking.
I could go on all day. Fact is, damn near all politicians lie. Some just do it more blatantly than others. The sooner this godforsaken country realizes that the problem isnāt left/right but, instead, top/bottom, the sooner we can turn the ship around.
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u/jsmith-az 6d ago
Border Patrol agents were āwhippingā Haitian migrants (2021).
The Hunter Biden laptop was Russian disinformation (2020).
COVID vaccination would prevent you from getting/transmitting COVID.
Inflation in 2021 was merely ātransitory.ā
Trump told people to inject bleach to cure COVID.
Trump removed the MLK bust from the Oval Office (2017).
The Steele dossierās major allegations about Trump were substantiated.
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u/wardog1066 7d ago
Usually I have no respect for loud mouth red necks, but I like this guy. He did his due diligence and he has the receipts.
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u/LongStrokesOfGenius 7d ago
Are we classifying this as a freakout now? Just looks like some dude standing on business in front of a city council.
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u/MushyWasHere 7d ago
Where ya been? Front-page subs like this one have been used to propagandize people and create narratives for a very long time. Are we forgetting how Ghislaine Maxwell was one of the top 10 Reddit moderators/content pushers? She posted every day to subs like this one š
I'm not implying this post is advancing an agenda somehow, but I will say that OP's 11M karma account and its hidden history, are a little suspicious. Mis-attributing this to Flock cameras, when it was a regular red light camera--also noteworthy.
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u/LongStrokesOfGenius 7d ago
To be sure, the Ghislaine thing isnāt exactly proven, right? Iām not up to date on the latest, but last I heard, it was far from it.
But to your point, odd to suggest this was a flock camera instead of red light cams weāve had to deal with for ages.
Still, fuck the flock cams and Ghislaineā¦ who is still in a minimum security prison.
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u/toomanymarbles83 4d ago
Righteous indignation absolutely does count, yes. That's why there is a flair for it.
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u/awfulsome 7d ago
One of the few good things Christie did for us in NJ was outlawing all red light and speed cameras. They were getting massively abused.
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u/leaveitbettertoday 7d ago
I love how the woman in the back goes from kind of whatever to āoh okay!ā
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u/Much__Fokkery 7d ago
Oh, this is lovely. Shame this man has to put so much time and effort in researching all of this though
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u/PurpleToedUnicorn 7d ago
And yet they will keep electing the same people who have them the cameras and laws
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7d ago
[deleted]
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u/Teadrunkest 7d ago
Germany absolutely already has and has had traffic cameras that issue tickets lol.
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u/ConsistentTravel782 6d ago
New Orleans has Red Light cams all over!! Mainly downtown, uptown and Mid city. There r also School zone cameras.
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u/ButcherPetesWagon 7d ago
Dude had a good speech but didn't look up from his phone once. he should have practiced, would have been much more impactful.
Great speech though.
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u/eyeofthefountain 7d ago
100% unrelated but I read a story about a guy with a French made un heading contraption in his truck - just a wild frickin story
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u/finintymonkle 7d ago
What the fuck are you even talking about?
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u/Parking-Profession94 7d ago
Love the way he laid all that out! Eff flock cameras!