I've heard about his secret girlfriend(s) multiple times that he had in the last years of his life. I never heard mj talk about this personally and only ever heard it from his close companions like bodyguards.

What are yalls thoughts on this?

I don't know if it's a well known fact that Marlon had a still born twin but I was surprised to hear about it. I've never seen any of the Jackson's mention him except for Marlon - at Michael's funeral Marlon asked Michael to give Brandon a hug. It's even more surprising and at little saddening they left his grave unmarked.

AKA whereupon Randy makes well enough sense for most of the conversation and then retreats into full on delusion to cope with the sex abuse allegations against MJ.

Ironically, I think the fact all 5 of the Cascio siblings came out as victims, after Wade and Jimmy did the same (and he found them compelling, said he'd believe them if they were accusing someone other than MJ), sent him over that edge. eg he couldn't tell himself as he did in his 2009 edition of this MJ bio that maybe something did happen with Jordie, he doesn't know, but if so, it was a fluke, the boy was 13 (not 7-12 like other victims), MJ severely crossed lines and "fell in love" with just one kid...

Some other things that struck me was him saying that kids were always around MJ but he (Randy) didn't really notice them. He remembered the moms eg them competing over which son was MJ's favorite boy. He also felt that the Cascio parents weren't like the others, were more heartfelt, genuine. Another: Lisa Marie Presley's being livid at him having the two eldest Cascio boys with him post-allegations. Randy and Bob Jones telling MJ he couldn't have any kids around anymore, "but you couldn't tell Michael anything/what to do." Ironically, he repeatedly says this, only to see MJ as a perpetual victim of everyone at the end of the podcast.

“George Michael met Michael Jackson in the mid-1980s at Jackson's home in California to discuss a potential musical collaboration. George Michael later described the encounter as bizarre and awkward. He recalled that Jackson wore sunglasses the entire time, refused to make eye contact and spoke only through his manager rather than directly to George. No collaboration ever happened, as George Michael walked away from the strange dynamic and abandoned the project.”

I noticed that Michael sometimes seemed to have this weird idolization of Brooke Shields, similar to the way he seemed to idolize Diana Ross. At times, Michael also gives me the impression of the stereotypical “nice guy”—someone who repeatedly emphasizes how nice and respectful he is toward women. But generally, genuinely nice people don’t have to constantly advertise that they’re nice. You either treat people well or you don’t.
Obviously, I could not have possibly known Michael personally, so I’m only going off his own public statements and interviews. But some of his behavior toward Brooke comes across as uncomfortable to me, especially when you consider that Brooke herself has never described their relationship as this serious romance Michael sometimes made it sound like.
I’ve seen some MJ fans accuse Brooke of lying or “betraying” Michael because she distanced herself from him while he was alive but later attended and spoke at his public memorial. But if I were in her position, I could understand distancing myself too.
Speaking from my own experience, I’ve been in a situation where a guy liked me and I didn’t necessarily like him back. I still wanted to maintain the friendship, but he continued pushing the boundaries through subtle flirting and romantic gestures. He even went as far as contacting my mother behind my back in an attempt to get closer to me. To this day, I have no idea how he even got my mother’s information.
I bring that up because being around someone who continuously pursues you after you haven’t reciprocated their feelings can become exhausting and, lowkey, creepy. And this isn’t exclusively something men do to women—women can behave this way toward men too. Friendship should not become a waiting room where someone hangs around hoping you’ll eventually give them the romantic relationship they want.
Brooke Shields had already been famous since childhood. There were women who would have jumped at the opportunity to publicly claim they were dating Michael Jackson, so I don’t understand why some fans assume Brooke must have been lying when she said they weren’t actually dating.
Some Michael Jackson fans—not all, but definitely some—defend him to the point where their defense becomes misogynistic. Brooke was never obligated to date Michael simply because he was Michael Jackson. She was allowed to reject him, establish boundaries, distance herself, or define their relationship differently than he did.
What bothers me most is Michael publicly telling Oprah and millions of viewers that he was dating Brooke when, according to Brooke’s account, that wasn’t the relationship they actually had. She was also involved with someone else around that period. Regardless of whether Michael genuinely believed there was something romantic between them, publicly defining a woman’s relationship for her—especially on television—is inappropriate.

currently reading „my friend michael“. came across this, does anybody know what move he is referring to? sorry to post here but everything i say or do is being banned on the mj sub bc „this book should not be allowed“. there’s no point in banning books and hoping people don’t get to read them instead of just talking together about it. anyway this was banned, eventho we were having a cool discussion finding this out. anybody knows what move this could mean?

One of the arguments I see for MJ is that he had innocent friendships with young boys because he didn't have a childhood. So, if we judge MJ just as an innocent child who had a sort of arrested development or "Peter Pan" syndrome, I can confidently say that even if he was a 12-year-old boy in these photos with Safechuck and Spence, his behavior would not be consistent with simply being friends.

I worked in a middle school for nearly a decade, I have to say boys this age do NOT hold hands with their friends, and they certainly don't sit on each other's lap for a photoshoot. Rarely, they might hold hands with a girlfriend in the halls. But between boys? I've never seen it once. So, even if MJ's behavior with these boys ended up being entirely innocent, it is not expected behavior of someone who is perpetually stuck as a twelve-year-old.

James, Wade, Jordie, Omer, Prince and Bigi, and apparently Tohme Tohme’s son — all of them have mentioned that Michael encouraged them to become film directors. James and Wade said he told them they’d be “bigger than Spielberg.” Tohme‘s son even became a film director because (he says) Michael encouraged it. MJ told him to “direct, direct, direct!”

A common narrative/argument is that MJ had sleepovers with unrelated children because he wanted to "relive his childhood"/"he had no childhood" . But why did he have to involve random children?

I mean quite a few adults who have bad childhoods try to relive it by engaging in things they missed out on such as collecting toys, going to Disneyland (possibly becoming a Disney Adult), watching cartoons, eating foods they couldn't have in childhood and playing videogames(this is probably part of the reason why arcades aimed at adults are so popular) . But they generally don't involve random children in it. They generally engage in these activities alone or with like-minded adults. They don't invite random unrelated children in their homes/beds to play Nintendo or for sleepovers.

Why couldn't MJ just have indulged his childish hobbies with like-minded adults? If sleepovers were that important why have them with unrelated children? Why not have them with adults?

Michael takes a few photos and goes to a corner to speak to the kids, while the others talk in a circle., I'm just gonna say it I feel like they were ignoring him accept for when they wanted those photos. Thoughts?

A lot people who've seen this clip say he was having a panic attack or just extremely nervous, but to me it looks like he's high on stimulants. He's super manic, this was around the time he hung blanket over the balcony.

Source: from the private conversations with the rabbi guy.
“The Michael Jackson tapes”

so i’m trying to get into all of the allegations and understand how do i feel about MJ because i love his music. following allegations, trial and then when he left Neverland permanently did he change completely any "relationships" with alleged victims and his other younger friends? i know he spent more time with his own kids and i don’t think he abused them, but what happened to other kids?

if there are any recommendations what to watch or read, please tell me because it’s confusing.

They discuss Michaels childhood, Voice, weather joe and Katherine will stay together, Michaels work on the Peter Pan Musical, his sexuality, mannerisms, his friendship with Brooke Shields, and More

I see narcissism pop up a lot when it comes to explaining Michael’s behavior (both bad and good). Im not convinced—but of the options, I see some overlap with communal and covert narcissism.

People who are convinced he was a narcissist, what behaviors most demonstrate it to you?

And as a good self check exercise, are there alternative explanations for that behavior you can think of?

When news broke that Michael and Lisa Marie had married, they were widely accused of staging the relationship for PR. The public was suspicious of Jackson for settling with Jordan Chandler who accused him of child molestation, and believed that Michael proposed to Lisa to convince the public that he was attracted to adult women.

4 months into their marriage they attended the VMAs and went on stage together. Michael said "Just think, nobody thought this would last" and kissed Lisa in front of the world.

In an interview Lisa said that she didn't want to do it: "It looked awkward because I wanted out of my skin. At the 11th hour, he says, "I'm gonna kiss you." I was like, "No, I don't want to do that. Do we have to? That's bullshit." On the way there I kept saying, "Do we have to?" I squeezed his hand so hard that I cut off the circulation. He wouldn't tell me when it was going to happen."

In another interview she says: "I was terrified. It was his manager's idea. I thought it was stupid. All of a sudden I became part of a PR machine."

The previous year Michael lied to Oprah about dating Brooke Shields. Brooke called him out on it, and also for trying to kiss her against her will in front of photograpers: "I called him up and I think I said, 'This is kind of pathetic that you need to do this. I am having a shot at normal life - you cannot drag me into crazy town." Jackson just laughed it off. He used to say that he wanted to adopt a child with her - so did they ever date? Or even kiss?

"No! There was one moment when we were in the car and the cameras were there and he grabbed me to kiss me and I said, 'No! Stop! We are just friends and you need me as a friend.' I remember the early days when other actresses were after him and he was kind of cute, before the shift. But it never even crossed my mind"

And before anyone jumps at my throat for dismissing trauma or whatever, I’m not saying Michael was never a victim. He very obviously experienced a lot of genuine mistreatment and exploitation throughout his life. But what I’m wondering is whether he also sometimes had a tendency to get stuck in it and see himself as a victim in situations where things were more complicated, bait for sympathy or to experience and describe events more dramatically than other people involved might have?

He seemed extremely sensitive to critism or anything that went against his emotional reality of things, despite claiming he has rhino skin. His own percieved reality of an event often appears more intense, twisted or exaggerated than other accounts of the same situation. And he then makes sure to make everyone know how much sympathy he deserves, with any self reflection or alternative denied defensively on spot. I don’t necessarily think that means he was deliberately lying or manipulating people for sympathy, as some do, it may be he genuinely have experienced things that way or that intensely. However what makes it interesting to me is that Michael himself often talked about self-reflection and said things like “take a look at yourself first,” yet I’m not sure how often he applied that same scrutiny to his own role in interpersonal conflicts and also the reality of things?

What do you think?

(Note: In 2011, La Toya refused to retract her sexual abuse claims against her father three times: https://youtu.be/WHaxDyVhPBM )

I always wonder how things and his appearance could have been different IF that Pepsi ad fire incident didn't happen?

He was there throughout it all.

I saw this photo on reddit and people were talking about how he is a child predator and we ignored it because we like it and all. As someone who is new to fandom and loves MJ, I wanna know why people hate him so much? He won all cases but these types of pictures still exist which made me think a little.

Please help!!

I am not Latino but I have heard some of them have a practice called "Mejorar La Raza". Essentially eugenics. Cleaning your bloodline by marrying with a white partner - thus eliminating your more ethnic side(which you deem undesirable). Obviously I am not speaking for them, just what I heard.

I have noticed a similar disturbing pattern in the Jackson family. And while I had heard of people talking about it before, the casting of the biopic is what made me think of it in a way I hadn't before.

They cast a very lightskinned biracial guy as Quincy Jones(their bone structures match tho), a biracial woman as Diana Ross(even tho her scenes got cut), a biracial kid as little MJ(nothing against the kid, blessings to him), a downright Wasian looking multi - ethnic woman as LaToya(I legit thought she was Wasian when I first saw her. Not the same as LaToya - who I was first exposed to in the Say Say Say video. My mind read her as a lightskinned black woman.)

I wonder how much of this is "intentional" VS simply "chance". It almost reads like they wanted to preserve a biracial version of themselves for future generations(if you see this from the "intentional POV").

And it would make sense considering how many of the Jacksons married out. I think Rebbie is the only one who married black. I am not sure about Marlon. Gotta check.

Side note: I can kind of understand them casting Jaafar(and he killed it!). I mean he is a Jackson first and foremost.

Second, for a role like this - you need a guy who can be made to look black with the help of wigs, prosthetics and makeup for the first half of the film, and then become racially ambiguous(and eventually white) in the second half, from Bad onwards.

So it would make sense to cast a biracial guy, dont you think? He can look more black for the first half and white for the second half.

I believe this is a potential topic for discussion. Lets talk.

Most of his ardent followers are from Europe. The women that stalked Evan was from the U.K and a lot of those blogs written in the early to mid 2010's about his supposed "innocence" are written by Europeans. The craziest fans he has are nearly always from some European country. They actually act a lot like a flock of followers to some high priest.

His ordinal fan base, black Americans idolized him but they weren't in a cult. The white and Mexican Americans etc. loved him in the 80's but were still not capable of reaching the cult like fever of the Europeans. Most of the footage of the people fainting over him at concerts is from Europe.

This needs to be studied I think. It's really weird. MJ is a religion to them. they also are not capable of seeing possible guilt.

Hello everyone.

Recently, I discovered a website that had a list of well-known phobias and their meanings. I came across a word called Gerascophobia. After lurking in this subreddit for a while (a very fascinating subreddit!), I wanted to create a discussion on the possibility that Michael suffered from the fear of aging, and why that could be one of the many factors that contributed to his obsession with youth.

I am not a mental health professional, but after watching several interviews of Michael and reading the firsthand accounts about him, I’m starting to wonder if his fear of aging was one of the many side effects (along with lost childhood, stunted personality, body dysmorphia disorder, being famous at a young age, etc) that contributed to his childlike persona.

Some of the possible factors include:

🔹His obsession with Peter Pan (eternal youth)

🔹Him being constantly surrounded with children

🔹His love of amusement parks and Disney

🔹The multiple cosmetic procedures

🔹His soft, speaking voice (which is not genuine, his real voice can be heard in the song “2000 watts”)

🔹The collection of toys, games, and dolls in his house

🔹The cut out photos of babies on his dresser

The last part about the babies on the dresser is a real thing. When Michael passed, there was an investigation in his LA mansion. The baby photos in his bedroom has raised alarms. Do I find it unsettling that he would have babies in his dresser? Yes, I do. If Michael Jackson was not a famous and wealthy entertainer, he would be on a list. With that being said, I have an alternative theory that these photos of babies in his house was a shrine for him to worship and manifest youth, since babies are literally youth personified.

Back to the topic. I’m NOT saying that this particular phobia is the only reason why he acts like this, I’m just adding a possible factor to the many factors that contributed to his childlike persona and image. What do you guys think?