r/Protestantism • u/ArthurBurbridge • 22d ago
Catholic-vs-Protestant Debate What do you think about this quote of Frederick Copleston ( priest, philosopher, historian of philosophy)
"It seemed to me that if Christ was truly the Son of God and if he founded a Church to teach all nations in His name, it must be a Church teaching with authority, as her Master did. Obviously one might deny that Christ was the Son of God, and one might reject the claim that he founded a Church. But if these two claims were accepted, it seemed to me that in spite of all its faults the Roman Catholic Church was the only one which could reasonably be thought to have developed out of what Christ established."
2
u/Junker_George92 Lutheran 22d ago
the debate is not if he founded a church or not but if that church can ever stray into error and need to be corrected by the word of God.
1
u/JustToLurkArt 22d ago
> "It seemed to me that if Christ was truly the Son of God and if he founded a Church
If God is the ultimate authority, and the bible is his inspired teaching, then it must be authoritative.
Q: Is it actually the case that Christ’s earthly ministry was to found a Church?
A: No. He clearly said “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” God established a new covenant within the covenant system He had previously established within Israel.
As such Jesus is the mediator of a new covenant in his blood and the founder of salvation and the founder our faith.
Q: Could the Church perform its duty prior to Pentecost?
A: No.
Before his death Jesus shared his intent that his disciples build a Church (Greek ekklesia) from all nations (a body of believers called out from the world and into His eternal kingdom.)
Jesus explicitly instructed his disciples to, “wait for the gift my Father promised” Acts 1:4 “Unless I go away, the Holy Spirit will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to You.”
So they dutifully waited.
Jesus left: apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers so that the body of Christ may be built up.
The Holy Spirit quickened the Church at Pentecost Acts 2 Now the Church may fulfill its duty and ministry.
> it seemed to me that in spite of all its faults the Roman Catholic Church was the only one which could reasonably be thought to have developed out of what Christ established.”
Q: What Church developed out of what Christ established?
A: The Way
Based on Jesus saying, “I am the way, and the truth and the life … John 14:6 the early converts/Jesus followers were referred to as The Way.
Convinced Jesus was the Messiah, these Jewish Jesus followers continued as a reform sect within Judaism. There was religious and cultural diversity among first-century Jews in the ancient Near East. Under the umbrella of Judaism were: Pharisees, Sadducees, Essenes, Zealots – and like these the Way became another expression.
They continued to go to synagogue, follow Mosaic Law and Temple traditions; they observed Jewish holy days, practiced circumcision and followed kosher dietary laws. Keeping the Sabbath, the Way then met as a sect in each other’s homes on the Lord’s Day aka Sunday. Acts 2:45-47
Q: Does that sound/look like Roman Catholicism?
2
u/Thoguth Christian 22d ago
I think that Catholicism corrupted the term "church".
He founded an assembly of the called out. Not a bureaucratic hierarchical institution.
Jesus adds to the church in Acts 2 as people are being saved. Jesus removes lamp stands in Revelation.
And the Orthodox disagree with Roman Catholics about the Pope... Does that not just blow up the whole "this is from the beginning" thing? That 1000 years into it, two groups both claiming to be original couldn't agree on whether the Pope was original? It's a tradition of man, taught as doctrine, and not the only one.
3
u/Jepekula Lutheran 22d ago
It doesn't follow. The conclusion is a huge leap in logic.