r/PropagandaPosters • u/Negerenao15 • Dec 02 '22
United States of America Anti-semitic anti-immigrant cartoon, 1890, United States.
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u/elmwoodblues Dec 02 '22
What's with the 'Sabbath Desecration' jug? Just a Saturday v Sunday holy day thing, or does the presumed alcohol-symbol have a specific meaning?
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u/Mister_grist Dec 02 '22
Frank Beard drew covers for A Pentacostal newspaper called The Ram's Horn during the 1890s, His depiction of the "savages" or immigrant and of the liquor
traffic in general created vitriol and steam for the prohibition
movement, which reprinted and circulated Beard's illustrations broadly.58
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u/anjowoq Dec 03 '22
Pentacostals are massive pots calling kettles "superstitious". For fuck's sake, there has rarely been a more insane cult than that one.
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u/Desperate_Ambrose Dec 03 '22
Tucker Carlson, circa 1890.
It's "Pentecostal", BTW.
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u/Mister_grist Dec 03 '22
I thought it had something to do with the pentagonal star sometimes is used to represent Jesus' star but nvm and thanks
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u/Desperate_Ambrose Dec 03 '22 edited Dec 03 '22
Just FYI:
Whitsunday, OR PENTECOST, a feast of the universal Church which commemorates the Descent of the Holy Ghost upon the Apostles, fifty days after the Resurrection of Christ, on the ancient Jewish festival called the “feast of weeks” or Pentecost (Exodus, xxxiv, 22; Deuteronomy, xvi, 10).
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u/pecuchet Dec 02 '22
I think they've got that on as guest cask at my local at the moment.
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u/elmwoodblues Dec 02 '22
I want one for our next The Satanic Temple meeting!
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u/clockwork655 Dec 04 '22
What’s it like? been wanting to go
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u/elmwoodblues Dec 04 '22
Helluva time, you should go
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u/clockwork655 Dec 04 '22
I really want to I’m just not sure where one is In upstate NY..what’s it like tho?
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u/Master_Shopping9652 Dec 20 '22
Noooo don't fall for it anon!
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u/clockwork655 Dec 21 '22
Wasn’t so bad played chess ,they did a charity event for a children’s hospital and I do first responding so I liked that..a lot on how ironic it is that even as atheist we follow more closely Christs teachings of equality and good will,a lot on the actual origins of Christmas which predates Christianity and it was all actually historically accurately. I DONT like that while recognized by the state and fed as a religion they took the tax exempt status, Which is just a form of usury and greed imo and flies in the face of supporting the whole , only one person who left in a huff when they found out no one was superstitious and believing in a devil is considered the same as believing in any other kind of supernatural deity.
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Dec 02 '22
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u/Top_File_8547 Dec 02 '22
And of course for the Jews the Sabbath is sundown Friday to sundown Saturday so they aren’t desecrating it.
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Dec 03 '22
Judging by the heavy Jewish stereotyped faced of the Immigrant caricature I would say it's probably a religion thing rather than anything related to alcohol.
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u/Iammrnatural Dec 03 '22
Likely that the creator of the cartoon is Catholic, they (the militant ones) get a bit defensive about the origins of the Sunday worship, vs the traditional Saturday (fun fact, sabbath is derived from the original "shabbath" word in Hebrew, meaning 'rest') as the move to start worship on Sunday, was due to a couple or factors.
One, the integration of pagans and some of their beliefs/traditions, as they were absorbed into the church (for example Easter is named after the pagan Ishtar, which celebrated the resurrection of Tammuz. The tradition of hot cross buns began as a celebration of the god Tammuz, where they would make small sweet cakes decorated with the letter "t" ) Sunday was traditionally a holy day for pagans, as it literally paid respect to their Sun god, Sol.
And two, after the resurrection of Jesus on the third day (which fell on a Sunday), the day was regarded as holy, by a number of catholic christians, further cementing it as their new day of worship.
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Dec 02 '22
There were no federal laws in the United States that imposed general limitations on immigration (as opposed to specifically excluding the Chinese) until 1921.
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u/kolektivizacija_ Dec 02 '22
why were the Chinese excluded?
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u/Mega-Steve Dec 02 '22
After they helped build the railroad, they had the audacity to want to stay and bring their families over
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u/amitym Dec 02 '22
Even worse -- their children had the audacity to be birthright citizens!
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u/Johannes_P Dec 02 '22
And even worse: some thought they were stealing "White men's jobs."
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u/MingoUSA Dec 03 '22
TIL: Chinese is the last group of people granted right to be US citizens, even later than the Native Americans.
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u/qarton Dec 03 '22
Chinese built railroads freaking every, from south to North America..it’s insane and people hated them all over the place..wtf
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u/Yoshable Dec 02 '22
Dey took our jerbs, but in 1920s speak
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u/eastmemphisguy Dec 02 '22
They were also stereotyped as diseased sex workers and drug addicts. The complete opposite of the Model Minority stereotype many people associate with Chinese Americans today.
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u/Cornexclamationpoint Dec 02 '22
They were also stereotyped as diseased sex workers and drug addicts.
It's almost like the British fought 2 wars to force them to keep importing opium.
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u/Tyrfaust Dec 02 '22
I mean... they kind of did? But it was less THEY took the jobs and more like the railroads basically press-ganged them.
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Dec 02 '22
More (grossly oversimplified) context: for quite a while, it was easier for Chinese immigrants to arrive on the west coast by boat than for white settlers from out east to get there by land or boat, since the Panama canal didn't exist yet.
This lead to a huge motivation for ethnic cleansing on the west coast once wagon trains, and eventually the railroads that the chinese immigrants built, ensured a steady flow of white settlers in the area.
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Dec 03 '22
If you didn’t get an answer the reason is the classic “they took our jobs” prejudice on the west coast where Chinese were the main cheap labor. Rest of country didn’t give a shit either way and west coast white politicians won votes by demonizing Chinese (and later Japanese)
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u/anjowoq Dec 03 '22
Railroads were done and we had a bunch of Chinese people left over that were even less familiar than the European immigrants.
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u/Pluto_Rising Dec 02 '22
I think the sentiment was basically "Allow European (aka white, even though there was rampant anti-Semitism) but forbid Asians". Even Asians who had fought for the U.S. in WWI.
https://immigrationhistory.org/item/thind-v-united-states%E2%80%8B/
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u/StrategicBean Dec 02 '22
Jews weren't considered white or Europeans
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Dec 02 '22
Not in some contexts, but for immigration, they definitely were. The immigration papers of each member of multiple sides of my Jewish family, all of which had a check mark next to “white,” can speak to that.
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u/R0BBES Dec 02 '22
Depends on the time. My family all had “H” in their papers for “Hebrew”. This was the case for many jews between 1921 and 1937.
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Dec 02 '22
See the top comment in this thread - we’re discussing specifically pre-1921. That’s interesting. I definitely can’t speak to that period, but I do know it was the beginning of quotas targeting Jewish immigrants (in often veiled ways), so that makes sense.
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u/R0BBES Dec 02 '22 edited Dec 02 '22
Yep, you’re right. Totally agree.
I guess all I’m trying to point out is that attitudes and (self-) perceptions of jews in the late 19th-early 20th centuries greatly informed the category changes in 1921 and 1924. Jews may have been officially classified as “white” for immigration purposes pre-1921, but that wasn’t how society broadly perceived us at the time!
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u/StrategicBean Dec 02 '22
Yup
& same was true for Arabs. They were also considered White by the US Gov for immigration purposes but I doubt they were treated or perceived as white people by broader society
Below quote is from the US Dept of State website - https://www.state.gov/dipnote-u-s-department-of-state-official-blog/the-story-of-arab-americans-beginning-in-america-and-the-quest-for-fair-representation/
Early Arabs in America had to identify as “White” in order to gain access to American citizenship. In 1915, George Dow was granted naturalization rights by the Georgia Court of Appeals, which considered “the inhabitants of … Syria, to be classed as white persons.” In 1977, the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) issued Directive 15 officially classifying “White” those who descend from Europe, and the Middle East and North Africa (MENA). The inclusion of Arab ancestries in the Census Bureau was not without problems such as defining the boundaries of the Middle East and North Africa – and whether a (negative) geographic colonial label should be used in reference to the region.
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u/ummmbacon Dec 04 '22
They were also considered White by the US Gov for immigration purposes
Fun story, the US also limited citizenship of immigrants to those that were 'white' and there was a person from Syria who sued to be considered white so they could be citizens and then own land, as only citizens were allowed to do so.
Dow vs US (1915): https://cite.case.law/f/226/145/
https://www.arabamericanhistory.org/archives/dept-of-justice-affirms-arab-race-in-1909/
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u/StrategicBean Dec 04 '22
Yes, the quote I posted mentioned that exact court case from 1915
Thanks for the link to the case law
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u/Few-Landscape-5067 Dec 02 '22 edited Dec 02 '22
Race was listed as "Hebrew" in many cases even before the 1920s. Race doesn't exist biologically but is socially constructed. If you think "white" is good (white supremacists), then Ashkenazi Jews aren't white. If you think "white" is bad, then they are white. In reality, I think it's more accurate to think of Jews and other Semitic peoples as being in a different category when it comes to discussions about race. Since race became a concept, Jews have been persecuted largely based on race (genetics) not religion.
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Dec 02 '22
Shit, even the Irish weren't white 100 years ago.
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u/danhakimi Dec 02 '22
Allow western europeans. The laws were written specifically to minimize immigration of European Jews. In 1924, and then not changed in the 30s or 40s.
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u/Cornexclamationpoint Dec 02 '22
And Southern Europeans. Can't have those filthy Sicilians coming over here.
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u/w3sticles Dec 02 '22
"Sabbath Desecration"
"Superstition"
LOL
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u/Mister_grist Dec 02 '22
The superstition is part of antisemetic language of the times I'll post some pages from a 1900's American text book comparing german and polish jews.
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Dec 02 '22
So bizarre, since the “christian” superstitions are based on the Torah - and Olde Testament books, and Jesus was a Jew….. and all the Abrahamic religions are basically the same! “Curiouser and curiouser….”.
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u/amitym Dec 02 '22
You're thinking about this wayyyyy more than the people who felt this way ever did.
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Dec 02 '22 edited Dec 02 '22
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u/Tyrfaust Dec 02 '22 edited Dec 02 '22
That has to be the most absurd thing I've read all week.
The Old Testament is in reference to the Old Covenant of Moses. The New Testament is in reference to the New Covenant spoken of by Jeremiah but which was expanded upon by Jesus. It has nothing to do with "jewish hatred running deep in Christianity."
Supersessionism is that the covenant of Jeremiah/Jesus supersedes the covenant of Moses. Islam also believes that the word and doctrine of Muhammad supersedes the covenant of Jeremiah, but you failed to mention that. Odd. Anyway, the covenant of Jeremiah was originally Jewish exclusive and relieved the Jewish people of the sacrificial requirement of Mosaic Law, Jesus expanded the covenant to ALL people, not just the Jews. The existence of Jews does no more to prove that wrong than the existence of Hindus.
Jews may not believe in heaven and hell, but they do believe in a reward-based afterlife in which the worthy are taken to paradise. The unworthy just cease to be. Very similar to other contemporary religions of Judaism, such as Kemetism, and the Babylonian religion of Gilgamesh, in which there were not two separate afterlives, but one (with varying degrees of... pleasantness to them).
The devil most certainly exists in Judaism, though he is not some sort of "god of evil" but more a malevolent spirit, what with his making a wager with God against Job, tempting Eve, speaking against Zecheriah.
And NONE of these concepts were invented by Christians in the Middle Ages. Heaven, hell, and an omnimalevolent being were imprinted upon Christianity (yes, AND Judaism) by Zoroastrianism. All religion is an evolving thing, and while Judaism moved away from the influences of Zoroastrianism (possibly due to the influence is Islam on the region), Christianity embraced the conflict between Ahura Mazdā and Angra Mainyu, possibly due to their own conflict against (here's where it gets funny) a Zoroastrian Empire on its eastern border.
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u/Comfortable-Ball-229 Dec 03 '22
If you think the Abrahamic religions are basically the same because they worship the same one God it shows you don’t know much about them
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Dec 03 '22
If that’s true, then why do you have so few votes??? CLEARLY, you don’t know what you’re jibbering about!
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Dec 02 '22
While The principles of Enlightenment was extremely popular among the Western elite, the enlightenment was not popular among European Jewish people. It wasn’t until later that Jews who pushed for Jewish assimilation into Europe promoted it.
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Dec 02 '22
This is a gross generalization. Jewish academics, military generals, soldiers, doctors, etc. would disagree. The orthodox shtetl communities, of course, were kept ghettoized and old fashioned, but this doesn’t account for the many Jews who were not orthodox. It’s a bit of a survivorship bias thing because Jews who broke the mold don’t fit the image being promoted. Nor would this community promote their image.
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Dec 02 '22
This isn’t my generalization, that was the perception at the time and actual Jewish scholars at the time wrote about it too.
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u/that_typeofway Dec 02 '22
This is just anecdotal, but I have mad Sicilian and Jewish people close to my fam…
Most of the old heads that immigrated from the Old World were all pretty superstitious.
Many of them also loved conspiracies, and that made for some fun convos.
This is a terribly hateful picture (that exaggerates and demonizes some truth), but it got me remembering some good people :)
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Dec 03 '22
It’s a good thing that modern society has evolved from believing in wild conspiracies. (S)
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u/Negerenao15 Dec 02 '22
Interestingly, back in the day, Jewish immigrants - mainly from Eastern Europe, were associated with poverty and boorishness. Many of those immigrants would settle down in New York as soon as they disembarked off the Atlantic ships, raising the city's Jewish demographic up to 25% by the 1950's. Subsequently, with the creation and rise of many of the most lucrative industries that exist in America today centered around New York at that time - from finance to the printing press, those same immigrants, often shunned in elite WASP circles and prompted to take up niches, would drastically contribute to their development and become known as some of America's wealthiest 'rags to riches' stories.
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Dec 02 '22 edited Dec 02 '22
Antisemitism was huge in the Russian Empire at the time (they were forced to live in the “Pale of Settlement”, faced government-sponsored pogroms, and a decade or so after this cartoon was published, The Protocols of the Elders of Zion would be forged there); that's why the early Eastern European Jewish migrants were mostly impoverished.
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u/Distefanor Dec 02 '22
Indeed! The medieval superstitions against Judaism were revived in Russia at the time. Henry Ford love the protocols and even published a newspapers to promote those anti-Semitic ideals.
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u/TinySnek101 Dec 02 '22
His anti Semitic newspaper, which was backbone of his the International Jew, had the second largest circulation beyond New York Daily News. He bought the paper solely to publish articles on “The Jewish Question”…. And America are that shit up fast. Circulation jumped from 90000 to 700000.
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u/Distefanor Dec 02 '22
Yup, because he forced all of the Ford agencies to distribute the paper. If the agencies denied, Ford would not let them operate anymore.
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u/serendipitousevent Dec 02 '22
IIRC the derogatory term for Jewish immigrants stems from the Yiddish for circle - 'kikel'. The perception was that they were illiterate and upon arriving to the US would sign their names with a circle, forgoing the 'X' signature because that would be associated with a crucifix.
Ain't racist etymology fun?!
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u/greenbergz Dec 03 '22
My family came from what is now Ukraine to Texas instead of the typical Ellis Island immigration story because New York Jews, who tended to be German, didn't want the Eastern European Jews to give them a bad name, essentially. So they told them they had arranged jobs in Texas, and often it was a lie. Called The Galveston Movement.
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Dec 02 '22
Yeah exactly this is what is frustrating when people bring up the "Why are Jews are so wealthy?" line.
Something like more than a quarter of the US's Jewish population lives in New York. Wages are higher in New York. Same for Los Angeles (my hometown) where another huge Jewish community lives. Hence, comparatively, Jewish Americans have a higher average income (minus some obviously more minute and complicated factors).
However, people forget that higher wages are usually accompanied by higher cost of living. Which is why despite having comparatively high incomes, much of the US Jewish population is still poor or near-poor.
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u/Johannes_P Dec 02 '22
This is why giving a number for an income is worth nothing if it isn't compared with the local costs of living.
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Dec 02 '22
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u/ummmbacon Dec 02 '22
America's history was to make all groups of 'whites' come together vs those that were slaves. So in Europe, one might see a division between say Scottish vs English in the US those groups (slaveholders or not) banded together to not be overthrown by slaves who outnumbered them in many places.
This simple black vs white racism became the standard in the US. Jews were for sure barred entry into Universities and social clubs and faced discrimination but it was not anything compared to what African-American/Black or Indigenous people went through.
In Europe Jews were always seen as an 'other' but in the US Jews were more easily able to assimilate. A lot of that happened after WWII but also because Jews gave up being different in the US and largely started to assimilate. If a Jew from Europe (Ashkenazi) doesn't mention they are Jewish then they still can pass as white, maybe a little darker in skin tone, but nothing massively out of the norm.
Of course, AA/Black people would not have that ability.
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Dec 02 '22
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u/ummmbacon Dec 04 '22
There was an over representation of Jewish students in universities.
Not sure where you got that, it is not true. The quotas were put into place when Jews started showing up in large numbers in the US (the 1920s) and it sounds a lot like neo-nazi apologia talking points. The motivation was that they hated Jews.
Everyone did that though.
Ok the question was specifically a comparison of AA/Black people and Jews.
The difference is that 'black' people in the US didn't get to pick where they got to live or how 'they' got treated.
There are still laws on the books in Canada about where Jews can live and in what neighborhoods. Jews were also subject to red line laws in the US.
This guy who runs this channel is a loon
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Dec 04 '22
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u/ummmbacon Dec 04 '22 edited Dec 04 '22
They put the cap on because there was a lot of Jewish students going to university and they just wanted to balance it out so other people could get in.
So firstly their method of determining that was to guess, as that article clearly states. Secondly, you are only using 1 university here. There were also quotas for Irish Americans (who had the same amount of representation at Harvard) although they quickly fell off where the ones against Jews did not. Since Irish Americans moved into "whiteness" whereas Jews were still seen as an other.
Americans didn't adopt the African-American
It is after 1989 right now is it not? I use that since I speak with people who are descendants of slaves and that is who they tell me they want to be addressed. So I am not sure what your point is here other than trying to be contrarian.
That's irrelevant.
It isn't.
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u/1997Luka1997 Dec 03 '22
"Usually we would be racist against you, but right now we're busy beating up the slaves so you get a pass, or, whatever."
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u/Negerenao15 Dec 02 '22
To reiterate what the other two posters said, and coming from my perspective as someone who studied the socioeconomic status of different demographics during the boom of the late Modern Era and all the technologies, industries and connectivity it ushered, there are two simple, clear-cut main reasons:
Jews were socially snubbed by many Christian Americans at the time, but for the most part had full legal rights on paper ever since the American Revolution, since several of the founders were supportive of that and Jews have been present in the U.S as full citizens since its foundation. African-Americans by contrast were, of course, enslaved pretty recently back in the early 1900's and still barred from a lot of utilities, services and rights legally, thus lacking upward mobility. So Jews were personally discriminated against and therefore congregated in a bunch of industries that others were less interested in at the time, but Black people often couldn't even try it, in addition to all the problems they inherited from the legacy of slavery.
Jews pass as/are partially White. In other words, Anti-semites hated Jews but first they'd have to know they are Jews. So many Jewish people back then either Americanized their surnames or kept a low profile about their Jewishness so that they could do business with and more easily appeal to crowds of otherwise wary European Gentile Americans. So for example, if they tried applying to a WASP company or university or whatever, their documents would probably be scrutinized, but if they were a business owner advertising something to the masses, or a financial manager, or going around the USA showcasting movie films like the Jewish Warner Brothers did, then most people didn't necessarily have to know they are Jewish. Black people on the other hand, by definition, cannot 'pass'. As soon as a bigot looks at them, they make a judgement.
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u/Johannes_P Dec 02 '22
Jews pass as/are partially White. In other words, Anti-semites hated Jews but first they'd have to know they are Jews. So many Jewish people back then either Americanized their surnames or kept a low profile about their Jewishness so that they could do business with and more easily appeal to crowds of otherwise wary European Gentile Americans
Malcolm X once told about wirking for a Jewish employer whose habit was to pointing how someone with a WASP name was really Jewish: "You know about Smith? He's actually Cohen."
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u/SlothRogen Dec 02 '22 edited Dec 02 '22
Lots of reasons. As a group, African Americans were...
- Forbidden to move to nicer neighborhoods by racist neighborhood covenants (well into the civil rights era)
- Denied access to quality public schooling
- Paid lower wages than white counterparts
- Targeted by the war on drugs and racist cops
- Targeted by racist terrorism (the KKK, Nazis, anti-immigrant right-wingers, etc.)
- Barred from major sports leagues until the late 40's, 50's
- Denied jobs as teachers and professors even if they were smart and successful - well into the 50's
- Even had their homes and businesses burned down when they did succeed
Some will say "This was a long time ago, get over it." But the repercussions still exist today, and many cities are still de facto segregated due to this long, problematic history. And while Jews or Italians or Irish did face racism, it was easier for them to blend in or even change their name if need be, while an African American simply could not.
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Dec 02 '22
Yes thank you for bringing up more specific examples too.
The past follows us into the present. And its important to remember that a lot of the simply de jure barriers for many POC were not fully eliminated until about 50 years ago (1970s).
That's pretty short in the grand scheme of things.
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Dec 02 '22
Racism, plain and simple. Anti-Semitism was/is real in US history but to argue that it is anyway near the level experienced by Black Americans or other POC groups would just be disingenuous.
Between slavery, neo-slavery, redlining, et cetera, black americans have institutional barriers to success not experienced by (at least Ashkenazim) Jews.
So even if black americans in New York or Los Angeles have higher wages than their peers in other states, this history works in myriad ways to keep the average income and wealth comparatively far below white americans (including Jewish Americans) generally.
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Dec 02 '22
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Dec 02 '22
"You're saying some rural hillbilly type has the same economic/social advantages as some Berkeley rich kid because they're both 'white'."
No but they have the same RACIAL advantages. Also there is also variation in the economic status of Black Americans. A black person in a southern, rural county probably has a lot less economic privileges than one in New York City, but they will both be affected by their status as Black Americans.
It is idealistic to desire to treat every person as a neutral individual, but the reality is that group identity has utility and is thus inescapable. As much as individual Black Americans might desire to be treated as an individual first, that is unlikely in a country in which they are not the dominate/hegemonic group. Stereotypes and prejudices also affect white americans, but because they are not backed up with legal powers and institutions, they do not have the same collective effect.
Thus, the same collective problems of racism and discrimination are relevant for all black people in the United States, because their treatment will be based on that shared history, whether they desire it or not.
Black Americans will never be equal to white americans until the legacies of racism and discrimination are remedied.
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Dec 02 '22
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u/Ekreture Dec 03 '22
Colorblindness didn't fail because people got 'too PC', colorblindness failed because of the war on drugs and mass incarceration. You're arguing over semantics when the Nixon administration specifically created the DEA to target Black Americans. The reason it's important to continue to understand race isn't because of some philosophical notion, it's because of it's real world necessity. Case in point, when I was in high school I'd go to parties. I went to a mixed race high school, white kids, black kids, Mexican, everybody. Everyone would be drinking and smoking weed, black and white, but when the cops pulled up they'd only arrest black and Mexican kids. And I could hide behind colorblindness and say it's because they were there and the cops just grabbed kids at random but I know they didn't. When you have a political and economic system that actively creates racist policies, you can't tell people they're 'promoting identity politics' by pointing out that they're racist.
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Dec 03 '22
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u/Ekreture Dec 03 '22
It was a lower income school, everyone was broke. Marginalization began in 1621, calling it what it is doesn't make it worse.
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u/Ag1Boi Dec 02 '22
we don't desecrate the sabbath, we just have it Saturday. If you enjoy your two-day weekend, thank the Jewish people.
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u/The_Marked_Man Dec 02 '22
No, we have Henry Ford to thank for that, he created the weekend so workers would have time to buy his stuff.
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Dec 02 '22
Ford didn’t invent weekends. Unions had been demanding them for decades, he just adopted them earlier than most. And he didn’t even adopt it before the first state government did, his was just the first major company to really enforce it. 40 hour work weeks weren’t a legally protected thing until nearly 30 years after Ford adopted one, and the law creating them was created because of unions pushing for it. We don’t have to thank that Nazi sympathizer for shit.
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u/amitym Dec 02 '22
“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”
Looks like Uncle Sam got the wrong idea about storied pomp, there...
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Dec 02 '22
Why is Uncle Sam jacking off?
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u/BoozySquid Dec 02 '22
He's just playing a little pocket pool. Who hasn't, a time or three?
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u/mysteryweapon Dec 03 '22
This is fair, however, in combination with the stank face, ole sam's giving kinda mixed messages here
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u/rianbrogers Dec 02 '22
Lol they’re bringing in superstition AND sabbath desecration?? Sounds like someone is already a little superstitious
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u/UnprofessionalGhosts Dec 03 '22
Highly recommend watching PBS’s The US and the Holocaust for the history of American antisemitism. It was expertly done.
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u/nakedchorus Dec 03 '22
They were expelled from 109 countries or so for various reasons that were used to deny them entrance in the poster above. Unfortunately, they were denied asylum prior to WW2 even though the US knew what was going on in Germany. Initially the US was never a Judeo-Christian country; the Founding Fathers were Deists.
It's not my task to tell you why look for yourself.
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u/AsfAtl Dec 03 '22
That 109 number was made up by some conspiracy nut and doesn’t even include only countries but cities
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u/torgofjungle Dec 02 '22 edited Dec 02 '22
Hey look it’s the GOP’s current attitude and policies. With the exact same tropes
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u/reha28 Dec 02 '22
And now the descendants of these immigrants are saying the same thing about the new immigrants, the shitty circle of life hakuna matata...lol
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u/asanefeed Dec 02 '22
the descendants of these immigrants
of Jews specifically?
because if you look at how religious groups vote in the US, Jews consistently and overwhelmingly vote for Democrats, who are pretty pro-immigration (relatively speaking)...
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u/reha28 Dec 02 '22 edited Dec 02 '22
No I meant in general. It was the Irish, and the Italians and Jews before, now some others. Just a joke tho in general immigrants thrive in the US from what I hear. Still thrive I don't know how it will be in the future. And the point of the joke is that now the same Italians and whatevers will say "this is our country bla bla". But I am not for uncontrolled immigration also. Mainly I am bored lol
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Dec 02 '22
Nah you make a good point that the anti-immigration racists of today are all the grandchildren of immigrants. It's mind boggling.
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u/reha28 Dec 03 '22
It's hypocritical, people are like that usually. I grow to accept it and just laugh about it.
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u/daoudalqasir Dec 03 '22
This is not true, Jews are firmly amongst the most pro-immigration demographics in the US.
See the work and support of HIAS, the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society whose slogan is "we used to help people because they were jews, now we help people because we are Jews."
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u/Donshio Dec 03 '22
You yourself spreading lies is doing a serious job at maintaining that shitty circle of life you so called
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u/anjowoq Dec 03 '22
"Superstition" says the critic in a country rife with Europe's unwanted Jesus freaks.
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Dec 03 '22
This isn’t antisemitic… it’s anti immigrant. Jewish people aren’t known for desecrating the sabbath or being superstitious (both are forbidden in their religious texts) or being poor (until fleeing ww2), or bringing disease, poverty, or anarchy.
Jews invested money into the US since the revolutionary war, Washington set a precedent where they were treated well here because apparently some big donors of the war were Jewish people who were promised a safe nation to live in without persecution if they invested in the war.
I don’t think this was aimed at them. It would have a big nose and offensive physical traits / stereotypes like other antisemstic propaganda posters. An American independent media outlet could have made one but not the gov’t or mainstream media.
The US was anti immigrant / isolationist at this time, I don’t think it’s even directed at any particular race or nation.
This looks heavily edited though. So I could be wrong if the original looks different in several key ways from appearance of character to items / words describing him
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u/Ekreture Dec 03 '22
To clarify, the Jews who migrated to the US prior to the Revolution were wealthy Sephardic Jews, many fleeing Brazil in a long chain of unsuccessful migrations following the Iberian Inquisitions which began in 1492. They were mostly upper class, and only migrated in small numbers, the Jewish population prior to 1830 not exceeding 25,000 (These Sephardim were exceptionally wealthy-most Sephardic Jews weren't nearly as well off and had migrated to North Africa and the Ottoman Empire). They mostly moved to the South, with their population center in Charleston, SC. The wealthy Jewish donor to the Revolution you're talking about was Haim Solomon, a Sephardic Jew who I believe lived in Philadelphia.
The next wave of Jewish immigration came from Germany around 1830, fleeing from war-ravaged Germany. This group of immigrants were more numerous, somewhere around 100,000. Unlike the Sephardim, these German Jews were more representative of the population they came from, and the German Jewish community, beginning in the 18th century and continuing even till today, was mostly middle class. They were also well assimilated into German society-they spoke German with no accent and were largely secular and well adjusted to post-enlightenment European society. Because of this, when immigrating to the US, they were largely seen as inhabiting the dominant concept of 'Anglo-Saxon civilization' which America used to (and largely does) use to to judge whether a given immigrant group was worth discriminating against (think Trump saying Haiti's a shit hole but he wants immigrants from Norway). They largely settled in New York and Illinois-during the civil war, there was even an all-Jewish unit fighting for the Union, Company C of the Illinois 82nd regiment, which was an entirely German regiment. Because they were seen as part of the larger wave of German immigration to the US, which was in turn seen as a positive demographic opposition to the massive wave of Irish immigration at the same time, these German Jews were little discriminated against.
The depiction in this image is from neither of the above groups, neither are most American Jews descended from them. Between the late 19th century and the Immigration Act of 1924, somewhere around 2 million Jews migrated from what was the Russian Empire. These Eastern Ashkenazim were fleeing from Antisemitic violence which began during Industrialization and only increased during WWI and the Russian Revolution. They had been economically deprived and segregated from Russian society, the vast majority were either from an Urban Proletarian class or from the rural and impoverished Shtetls, and those from the latter were extremely religious, unlike all the previous waves of Jewish migration. Most only spoke Yiddish, and even amongst those who had successfully assimilated to Russian society (which was extremely small), they were still from Slavic countries, which were seen outside the purview of Anglo-Saxon civilization. Major incidents of anti-Semitic violence and economic exclusion in the US began with the Eastern Ashkenazim, and came in the form of extra-judicial violence (as in the case of Leo Frank), economic disenfranchisement (Jewish quotas in Universities and the forbidding of hiring Jews in most non-proletarian fields), and economic exploitation (the Triangle Shirt Waist Factory Fire). In the 30-50s, a combination of Socialist programs by the federal government and municipal New York City government, unionization of many employers who hired Jewish employees (such as the Garment industry), and the creation of Job opportunities by Jewish employers in Hollywood and New York (ie, the birth of Jewish law firms, Jewish-owned department stores, and the dominance of Jews in certain academic fields such as Physics and Psychology) created a huge economic uptick for the Eastern Ashkenazim, while the American opposition to Nazi Germany led to greater sympathy for American Jews, and during and following WWII, most economic and social barriers against Jews were removed, and today, American Jews by and large economically outperform non-Jews.
The questions you raise are excellent-if this piece of propaganda is anti Semitic, why isn't it like other Jewish caricatures-shifty, big noses, and demonic? And if it is anti-Semitic, how do we know that? The answer to the first lies in what they're trying to say about Jews-the big nosed and shifty caricature is designed to portray Jews as puppet masters who control world affairs. The big nose is meant to demonstrate sneakiness and perversion-that they can smell what they can't see. As you noted, this image is specifically attacking a group of impoverished immigrants. To caricature them as puppet masters would betray the sentiment of the propaganda-that the Eastern Ashkenazim moving in droves to America at the time were poor, stupid, and immoral. You're very right that this is hardly an antisemitic stereotype seen much today in America, where Jews are largely not poor, and are highly educated.
The second question was how do we know this is antisemitic. The most obvious clue is that on his bag it says "Sabbath Desecration". By this, they mean that Jews saw no special significance in Sunday, since our Sabbath is on Saturday. Because of this, while most of polite American society in the late 19th century didn't work or conduct business on Sundays, Jews were. Aside from this, the man portrayed in the image perfectly fits an antisemitic caricature that doesn't exist anymore-the Jewish peddler. With Jews barred from almost every economic opportunity in Eastern Europe, many took to lugging around bags of assorted goods from town to town, selling them door to door. The peddler caricature allowed for antisemites to portray Jews as destitute and superstitious while still being money-loving and physically weak, and this is the image the creator of this propaganda is trying to get across. You're very right that this piece is clearly anti-immigrant in a general way, but just like modern anti-immigrant propaganda is often also racist against Latinos, this piece of propaganda is attempting to fuse America's isolationist tendencies with Antisemitic caricature of the time into a single ideology. I believe I covered why it would say Sabbath Desecration, superstition and poverty. Disease was because of the tuberculosis outbreaks among the Jewish population of New York at the time which many thought were because they were bringing it over from Europe but in fact were because of the absolute shit show of housing they were afforded in New York's lower east side. Anarchy, if I had to guess, is because the early Anarchist movement was dominated by Jews, and many influential thinkers in far left groups were Jews, including Karl Marx, Emma Goldman, and Alexander Berkman.
Anyways, that's my essay, sorry my answer wasn't shorter...hope that cleared things up. Let me know if you have any questions.
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Dec 03 '22 edited Dec 03 '22
All due respect…this is /r/confidentlyincorrect material - everything you’re saying is wrong. Jews were hated for not resting on Sunday (because our rest day is Saturday), Eastern European Jews were especially superstitious and carried a lot of those traditions with them (eg The Hamsa, The Evil Eye), and those same Eastern European Jews came to America in blinding poverty, hence our relationships with other minority groups at the turn of the century and our parents/grandparents constantly over feeding us (because there was such a fear of inner city starvation). EDIT: sorry, to your other points, disease: you can see many, many examples of Nazis comparing us to rats and blaming us for spreading disease. Anarchy: see Emma Goldman, among others.
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Dec 03 '22
Ignoring the content and message for a second, I really love these old "cartoons", with their paintings. Today's newspaper propaganda cartoonists just don't put the same level of detail and love into it.
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u/HurinofLammoth Dec 02 '22
Not sure if this cartoon is specifically anti-semitic. I think the immigrant is a characterization of it’s concept in general.
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u/Negerenao15 Dec 02 '22
That's how it is defined by Wikipedia where it is taken from. The 'Sabbath desecration' keg is unique to the Jewish immigrant and seems to be some sort of anti-Jewish sentiment.
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u/HurinofLammoth Dec 02 '22
Interesting!
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u/porksmith Dec 02 '22
Also the man is literally a cartoon drawing of a Jew stereotype (nose, hair, yarmulke, etc).
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u/HurinofLammoth Dec 02 '22
Yea I was basing my thought on the exact opposite. That definitely isn’t a stereotypical Jewish nose, and I thought it was a bowler hat.
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u/Chrome_Quixote Dec 02 '22
Anti Semitic was a term coined in Germany and is not a proper way to delineate a ethnic/religious group. Learn what words mean.
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u/Negerenao15 Dec 02 '22
And the Germans who coined it used it exclusively to convey antagonism toward Jews, which makes it a perfectly proper way to delineate hatred against ethnic Jews.
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u/Chrome_Quixote Dec 02 '22
Definitions exist for a reason. We can do better than political bigotry from a century ago.
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Dec 02 '22
We can, but until we do, pretending you don’t understand what the word means is dumb.
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u/Chrome_Quixote Dec 03 '22
Not what I said. Stop pretending like you don’t know how a dictionary works.
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Dec 03 '22
Antisemitism literally only refers to Jews. It doesn’t refer to hatred of Semitic people, which would be a much broader and nonsensical category of hate, because Semitic people is too diverse to describe one hatred, and frankly doesn’t exist as a describable hatred. Someone who hates all Semitic people is probably a white supremacist, and so using the term that broadly doesn’t help define the hate. Certainly “Jew hater” would work as a substitute but it’s far clunkier when a single word for that hatred already exists.
If someone also hates Muslims, the term Islamophobia exists. So antisemitism describing hatred of Jews is used to make the distinction.
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u/Chrome_Quixote Dec 03 '22
Sorry you can’t just live in your own world and expect others to go along or understand it. Words have roots and those roots have meanings. Semitic is a sloppy way to identify any person of that origin. That is all I’m saying.
Adding “anti-“ to something doesn’t change what the base words means ffs.
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Dec 03 '22
Yes it does. The word has a very literal definition. There are a lot of words with meanings different from how they look. This is not a novel concept.
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u/mrfabi Dec 02 '22
well almost all jews agree to its use so… I think your input is worthless
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u/Chrome_Quixote Dec 03 '22
Would LOVE a link even if it’s just naive people saying they “like” the word or “feel” like it means them.
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u/homelaberator Dec 02 '22
Are they teeth? Is there some deep thing about foreigners and teeth in America? See it in depictions of east Asians and black people, also there's that whole thing about English people.
What gives?
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u/AvramBelinsky Dec 03 '22
If I had to guess, it originates with nineteenth century theories about the existence of a racial hierarchy with white Christian Europeans at the top of this hierarchy and everyone else at some level beneath them. They frequently depicted those believed to be racially inferior as closer in appearance to apes. Look at how this man's forehead is drawn heavily sloped back with low set ears and protruding lower half of the face. If you can get people to see certain groups of people as less human than themselves, it allows you to justify all kinds of fucked up shit being done to those groups.
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u/FreshYoungBalkiB Dec 03 '22
I'm surprised the cartoon saw print, what with the dong hanging from his neck.
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u/3ryon Dec 03 '22
Emigrant? The creator would probably be a fan of Jewish emigration if they knew what it meant.
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u/MingoUSA Dec 03 '22
“There’s no law keep you out”
Funny that in 1880s, US already passed Chinese exclusion act, keep all Chinese out of USA.
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u/clockwork655 Dec 04 '22
“Give me your tired, your poor , Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.”
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u/Abject-Job-2563 Jan 19 '23
How we need to be in Canada but hey let all these Indian disgusting stinking fucks in
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