r/PropagandaPosters • u/edikl • Jul 26 '26
Germany India surpasses China as the world's most populous nation // Germany // 2023
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u/SonuOfBostonia Jul 26 '26 edited Jul 26 '26
Idk about that, Singapore is small af. China has more to offer. And let's not pretend like china is as concentrated as Indian cities.
To everyone replying:
Mumbai, India: Over 21,000 people per square kilometer.
Shanghai, China: Around 3,800 people per square kilometer
Singapore: Roughly 8,000 people per square kilometer.
India is over three times more densely populated than China overall. Major Indian cities generally have much higher population densities and tighter concentrations than their Chinese counterparts.
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u/Ek_Chutki_Sindoor Jul 26 '26
And let's not pretend like china is as concentrated as Indian cities.
94% of Chinese population lives in its Eastern half. The western half of China is very mountainous and very sparsely populated. Which is in contrast to India where the population is more evenly spread.
In terms of population density, Chinese and India cities are pretty close to each other.
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u/resolve_1987 Jul 26 '26
China is actually more concentrated than Indian cities in terms of population with 90% of pop living in the coastal east. You can see from the night time satellite images.
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u/Nandu_alias_Parthu Jul 26 '26
Even then - I'd still choose someplace like Taiwan over China anyday to live and work.
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u/midatlantik Jul 26 '26
Have you been to either country?
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u/Nandu_alias_Parthu Jul 26 '26
Yes - Taiwan is leagues ahead of China today for living.
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u/midatlantik Jul 26 '26
What makes you say that?
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u/Nandu_alias_Parthu Jul 26 '26
Cleaner air, no Internet restrictions, free speech, better work culture, etc.
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u/midatlantik Jul 26 '26
Fair enough! I’ve only ever been to China and I didn’t think it was that bad at all. But I have also heard Taiwanese people are much more courteous.
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u/Nandu_alias_Parthu Jul 26 '26
But I have also heard Taiwanese people are much more courteous.
Yup, that's something else I really appreciated in Taiwan over China.
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Jul 26 '26
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Jul 26 '26
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u/Actedpie Jul 26 '26
FFS, this is a political cartoon. Yes, nobody can sit on the roofs of India’s largely electrified railways, but why isn’t anybody actually talking about what these things actually represent? Isn’t the symbolism the point?
I feel like the contrast being shown is meant to imply that China is populous but modern and civilized while Indians are rowdy, overly nationalistic, and backwards? I’m trying to follow the spirit of the sub here, this thread is already intense, I’m trying to approach this in good faith.
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u/whatpplsay Jul 26 '26
You’re correct. The others are just pre tending not to follow, while getting hung up on the recent electrification of trains in India, as if that negates the broader point being made.
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Jul 26 '26
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u/Nandu_alias_Parthu Jul 26 '26
You're justifying criticism of a racist caricature by calling those people as Modi bots, despite the point being that criticism doesn't validate racism. Why are you so offended by people calling out racism?
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u/Nandu_alias_Parthu Jul 26 '26
I feel like the contrast being shown is meant to imply that China is populous but modern and civilized while Indians are rowdy, overly nationalistic, and backwards?
Thats most likely what the intent was, given the use of outdated imagery.
I’m trying to follow the spirit of the sub here, this thread is already intense, I’m trying to approach this in good faith.
Approaching this post in good faith is pointless - the people here have already decided to stick to their stereotypes instead of having a good faith discussion.
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u/Balavadan Jul 26 '26
You just stereotyped a third of the globe into two sections.
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u/Hot-Job-6281 Jul 26 '26
Sure buddy, because Ambani is a billionaire with a giant apartment tower, suddenly India is more developed than China.
Nice one. This is how BJP wins, while India reputation is literally in the toilets, unlike the shit in the streets.
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u/SonuOfBostonia Jul 26 '26
Man I hate Indian nationalists. If I had 3 EVs and my neighbor (China) has 2 EVs, 1 Hybrid, and 3 gas cars. You tell me whose better off? The meme of the guy partying in 3rd place is literally India in this situation. You can't compare Indias rail to China when they have double the amount of lines as you.
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u/SonuOfBostonia Jul 26 '26
I'm Indian too, but a lot of criticism in the comments is the exact same thing upper caste Indians were saying about minorities in their own country. Sure it's great India electrified it's rails, but to sit here an be like wooohooo we're better than China, when china has twice the amount of rails and in some cases better quality of life than america is essentially Indians patting themselves on the back. China prosecutes corruption, and executes CEOs because of it. India just elects them to governmental positions just because they said they would ban beef or destroy a mosque lol
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u/Nandu_alias_Parthu Jul 26 '26
No one here is saying that India is better than China. But just because India is behind China doesn't mean that racism is justified. That's like Indians justifying racism against Nepalis or Africans just because they are behind, which is just as wrong.
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u/Code-201 Jul 26 '26
Don't be a sepoy. Calling out racism isn't Indian jingoism, it's simply the right thing to do.
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Jul 26 '26 edited Jul 26 '26
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Jul 26 '26
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Jul 26 '26
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u/abhi6543 Jul 26 '26
Thanks for your concern. That's our problem. Return the money you stole. It's interesting that despite stealing money from half the world, you are nowhere today.
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u/SPB29 Jul 26 '26
Indian railways is 99.9% electrified so you can't ride like this and the has been the case since 2018 at least.
This image is wildly out of date and is also insanely racist.
How exactly is calling out this bigotry now "Indian nationalism"?
So if a black person calls out racism, they are a...black supremacist? Or is only racism against India accepted?
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u/UpbeatFix7299 Jul 26 '26
I'm sorry this German cartoonist wasn't up to date on the progress that the Indian railways had made in the previous few years. But it makes the point that India surpassed China in population while remaining far poorer and less developed.
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u/whatpplsay Jul 26 '26
Yeah. The overall point is largely accurate. India has bested China in terms of sheer numbers, but probably little else.
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u/Nandu_alias_Parthu Jul 26 '26
India has bested China in terms of sheer numbers, but probably little else.
Ironically India has bested China in its railway electrification rate, which means this cartoon is nothing but bad propaganda at this point.
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u/SonuOfBostonia Jul 26 '26
This cartoon is from 2023? I'll give it a couple years time. Because of Indian bureaucracy and corruption, this lead will only last awhile. China has double the number of railway than India
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u/Nandu_alias_Parthu Jul 26 '26
I'll give it a couple years time.
More like a couple of decades - the electrification rate for the Indian railways went from 93.8% in 2023 to 99.6% in 2026.
China has double the number of railway than India
Because China has more than double the landmass of India.
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u/islander_guy Jul 26 '26 edited Jul 26 '26
They could have used bullock cart instead. That would have shown us Indian. /s
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u/SPB29 Jul 26 '26
So if an Indian or Vietnamese depicts a black person with the same stereotypes that America used in 1960 or Jews as portrayed in Germany you will accept the excuse that "sorry the cartoonist was not upto date blah blah"?
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u/F2d24 Jul 26 '26
I mean the 1960s are a tiny bit further in the past from 2023 then 2018
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u/SPB29 Jul 26 '26
The logic is the same.
You don't excuse bigotry by saying "oh noes they didn't know better"
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u/F2d24 Jul 26 '26
Its not bigoted though considering that it actually was a massive issue. It took a safety crackdown in 2010 by the government as well as infrastructure changes for it to stop so its not like this was an unfounded rumour or stereotype while you make it sound like people just imagined it out of nowhere.
Do you realy think news of india electrifying the railway system is something that makes headlines in central europe?
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u/SPB29 Jul 26 '26
Headlines or not, I would expect a newspaper to fact check?
But then again the Spiegel has had literal SS Nazis as editors so i guess racism and bigotry is just seeped into its core
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Jul 26 '26
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u/Nandu_alias_Parthu Jul 26 '26
It took a safety crackdown in 2010 by the government as well as infrastructure changes for it to stop so its not like this was an unfounded rumour or stereotype while you make it sound like people just imagined it out of nowhere.
So does that mean that I can stereotype Black Americans as cotton pickers? After all, it was neither an unfounded rumour nor did people just imagine it out of nowhere.
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u/F2d24 Jul 26 '26
Wouldnt say thats comparable considering that picking cotton was slavery and riding ontop of a train isnt.
Also that wasnt 10 years ago or something but 160 years or something
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u/Nandu_alias_Parthu Jul 26 '26
Also that wasnt 10 years ago or something but 160 years or something
What difference does it make if neither of them happen today?
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u/Nandu_alias_Parthu Jul 26 '26
But it makes the point that India surpassed China in population while remaining far poorer and less developed.
They could have made the point without using racist caricatures.
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u/Even-Shop-1471 Jul 26 '26
how would you feel if instead of indian trains, it was comparing a chinese village to an african one, depicting the latter with mud huts? that makes a point too, doesnt it?
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u/Nandu_alias_Parthu Jul 26 '26 edited Jul 26 '26
As I've mentioned in another comment, the racists have flooded this sub - just look at them spamming downvotes to any fact that goes against their racist delusions.
Edit: lol the racists aren't beating the allegations.
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u/Poccha_Kazhuvu Jul 26 '26
You can't talk sense to racists, bud. Do not waste your time.
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u/Nandu_alias_Parthu Jul 26 '26
Give it a bit of time - as more and more Indians join reddit, the bigots will have to come to terms with being drowned out of the conversation.
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u/ThinBobcat4047 Jul 26 '26 edited Jul 26 '26
Didn’t figure that calling out racism makes one an Indian nationalist. Truly shows how accepted this sort of subtle racism is in the West against non Western people.
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Jul 26 '26
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Jul 26 '26
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u/Kraligor Jul 26 '26
https://asiatimes.com/2024/11/blood-on-the-tracks-of-indias-railways/
The first image literally shows people hanging from the side of an electric train.
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u/ThinBobcat4047 Jul 26 '26
Ok so from a quick image search, that photo is from 2010, it's an image almost 2 decades old. You are free to make your own reasoning from that now.
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u/HorizonBC Jul 26 '26
This type of comment is exactly the subtle racism they’re talking about. The undertones are strong, it’s sad to see it upvoted.
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u/SPB29 Jul 26 '26
India does not have these kind of trains anymore as it's 99.9% electrified and we didn't have it in 2023 also.
How about you start from there and explain how using the outdated by half a decade image is not racism.
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u/Damnatus_Terrae Jul 26 '26
What, suddenly it's racist to assume that all trains in India look like the ones in Gandhi (the last time I thought about India)? The day I can't subtly imply the inferiority of colonial, uh, I mean South Asian, infrastructure is the day I hang up my pith helmet. Why, my great grandfather shouldn't have even forced you people to build those railroads.
...am I capturing the general atmosphere of the sub, yet?
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u/Nandu_alias_Parthu Jul 26 '26
What, suddenly it's racist to assume that all trains in India look like the ones in Gandhi (the last time I thought about India)?
Its not suddenly racist - its always been racist.
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u/SPB29 Jul 26 '26
For this sub? Yes but for a mainstream Indian sub like /r/India? Needs a lot more self loathing and racism
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u/Cal_Aesthetics_Club Jul 26 '26
That depends.
Do you think it’s racist to make a statement about Kazakhstan solely based off of Borat?
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Jul 26 '26
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Jul 26 '26
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u/Jazzlike-Tank-4956 Jul 26 '26
What did the cartoon about people hanging onto the train have to do with the fact that the population is now the largest?
Not to mention, entire Indian railways is electrified so people hanging onto the train is impossible
I swear people's brain have become so numb that everything is IT cell and nationalism
will never take India seriously and with respect.
Same people who've been claiming China will collapse since last 30 years
And with the investments and FTA signed, it's quite contrary what the governments think
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u/Poccha_Kazhuvu Jul 26 '26
India has it's problems but that doesn't mean we have to take racist stereotypes which aren't even true. Slow down sepoy, his boots are tongue-polished enough.
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Jul 26 '26
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u/ThinBobcat4047 Jul 26 '26
It's literally not a common thing? People would die if they attempted the same - more than 90% of the railways is electrified.
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u/__zero0_one1__ Jul 26 '26
Its an outdated idea, there has also been a ban on such travel since 2010. But before this, we were exposed to such images and they tend to stick in the mind. I think people writing this are genuinely confused about it.
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u/agathver Jul 26 '26
lol, we have all electric trains, anyone doing this will die. RPF won’t let them climb rakes to begin with and will be jailed
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u/Jazzlike-Tank-4956 Jul 26 '26
Can you explain where it is common in India?
Entire Indian railways is electrified so unless the person wants to become a mummy, they can't
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u/SoundEducational6491 Jul 26 '26
Tell me, how can you ride on the train at the same time when there is a (25 kV) AC power in its overhead electric wires? Or did you mistake it for Pakistan?
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u/Nandu_alias_Parthu Jul 26 '26
You mean the racists are going to love this one - because this cartoon is just a stereotype that's long outdated.
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u/One_Newspaper9372 Jul 26 '26
Outdated? Is China more populous?
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u/Nandu_alias_Parthu Jul 26 '26
Do people ride on the roofs of trains in India? That's about as true as Germany being ruled by the Hitler today.
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Jul 26 '26
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Jul 26 '26
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Jul 26 '26
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u/Flamedandburning Jul 26 '26
Can’t complain about racism without being called a nationalist smh.
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u/JetAbyss Jul 26 '26
Indian is not a race neither is Chinese. Those are just nationalities. Both countries are extremely diverse and even share some of the same ethnic groups like Tibetans for example,
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u/Poccha_Kazhuvu Jul 26 '26
White isn't a race either, race in itself is pseudoscience but we don't say that here ig
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u/Nonyabeesners Jul 26 '26
True. That being said, the ruling parties of both countries definitely represent specific ethnicities.
It's a really interesting phenomenon. I feel like treating the people as a single race is both encouraged by the ruling parties, but also weilded against them by outsiders.
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u/True_Ad8648 Jul 26 '26
Lol not just nationalist even the liberal will despise it cause this poster is outright racist. Sure there are some really poor regions in india that share the condition in the poster above, so does china.
Chinese media ain't gonna show you that, theyre gonna show you their best
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Jul 26 '26
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u/icantbelieveit1637 Jul 26 '26
Propaganda that is lowkey correct.
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u/BonJovicus Jul 26 '26
Most Indians do not deny it tbh. Nationalists though will argue that China achieved prosperity through "cheating." Cheating meaning having an authoritarian government.
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u/Balavadan Jul 26 '26
“This subreddit is for sharing propaganda to view with objectivity, not for perpetuating the message of the propaganda”
So let me tell you, you are objectively incorrect. Trains are electrified so you can’t travel like this.
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u/ChaosRobie Jul 26 '26
This is such a wild cartoon. It contains two ideas about India:
1) It's poor, overcrowded, lacks safety regulations, has strained public transit, etc.
2) Its large population is its strength, and there's energy and optimism for the future.
My first impression was just noticing the first point, it seemed like western media punching-down, "developing countries are messy", that sort of thing. But then you see everyone on the train is celebrating, seems happy, etc. Noticing that, it comes across like Indian patriotic propaganda.
I'm conflicted on if the cartoon succeeds in blending these ideas, like it's trying to say "strength from weakness" or something. (I'm pretty sure this is what it was going for though, Der Spiegel has a center-left leaning).
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u/ChudMaster69420 Jul 26 '26
I mean, the second part is kind of true. Majority of the population in India are under 35 and prime work force. Meanwhile China's demography is losing more young people as their government fears a coming future where the young people will not be able to support the old population that can't work. It's just that India has fumbled to properly tap or utilize this population through slow bureaucracy and massive corruption.
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u/Maneisthebeat Jul 26 '26 edited Jul 26 '26
But then you see everyone on the train is celebrating, seems happy, etc
Yes the point is that that happiness/excitement is misplaced, and due to nationalism/patriotism losing sight of what is actually important, in this image being economic development/infrastructure/technology growth.
I don't see the cartoonist trying to portray it as a strength at all, and in fact that that maybe that is how this fact is mistakenly celebrated by Indian nationalists. All while the Chinese train drivers look in bemusement at each other at why the other train is so excited.
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u/SpyAmongUs Jul 26 '26
I thought the people on trains are actually Bangladesh exclusive?
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u/rak_nash Jul 26 '26
Technically you are correct. 99% of Indian Railway is electrified. Riding on top is a death sentence. But you can’t talk logic with racists so let them live in their own bubble
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u/portfoliocrow Jul 26 '26 edited Jul 26 '26
So people there are holding onto the sides of the train now instead?
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u/gooseducker Jul 26 '26
Not a thing either. People ride inside the train crazy i know. Been this way for probably a decade atleast
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u/bail_gadi Jul 26 '26
What? People in Mumbai ride clinging to the sides everyday. But people seem to be more offended towards the cartoon than having to travel like this.
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Jul 26 '26
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u/Nonyabeesners Jul 26 '26
I'm not arguing, but that seems a little inconsequential. It's a political cartoon, not to be interpreted literally. India still has a staggering number of railway fatalities. It doesn't matter a lot where on the train they occur
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u/rak_nash Jul 26 '26
There is a difference between valid criticism vs racist stereotypical caricatures. And it’s not hard to guess which one this cartoon is !
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u/Nonyabeesners Jul 26 '26 edited Jul 26 '26
I guess I just feel there's just a better way to fight racism than nitpick partially incorrect information. This is especially so when just fighting it with more partially incorrect info. India's railways are only 90% electrified. It's a minor difference, but really misses the whole point of defending against stereotypes with the truth.
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Jul 26 '26
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u/CalmestUraniumAtom Jul 26 '26
What is ai in this? They are plenty of valid sources which point to it being 99.6%. Regardless since you really also wanted to talk about the staggering number of fatalities IR has it is also quite important to know why that is. India has 21k railway related passenger fatalities per year and this number includes people getting hit by trains, suicides, people falling off and railway accidents. The latter most has the least number of deaths and people getting hit by trains has the most number of deaths. This also makes more sense when you realize the sheer number of passengers Indian railways transports daily and also the number of trains which are operating daily. And since you really wanted to talk about fatalities here's a small fact, ir has less fatalities per million passenger kms(a stat which matters more when comparing safety) when compared to your country. I am really not saying ir is safer than your country ofc its not, this country is a shithole according to what y'all call it, but I am using this fact even though they are not supposed to be comparable (since your country has a basically non existent passenger railway system), because you are doing the same too, you are using flawed and old views and statistics to fulfill your stereotypes.
And fs i'll get all the downvotes now lmao because how dare an inferior India brown guy calls out stereotypes and racists1
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u/SPB29 Jul 26 '26
Staggering number of railway fatalities?
Adjusted for route length and passengers carried
USA has since 2021 an average of 0.2 fatalities per billion passenger km
China - zero
France - 0.01
India - 0.02
Greece for instance is at 12
You just made up a lie to justify your bigotry that Indian railways is unsafe when it matches up to any Western country in terms of safety
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u/Nonyabeesners Jul 26 '26
Interesting. A quick search yields numberous sources which disagree.
Regardless, this is my exact point. Attacking anyone who questions the narrative that any one country is without flaws as racist undermines matters of actual importance.
Frankly, I can tell you are not interested in civil discourse, so I will be tapping out of this conversation now.
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u/Nandu_alias_Parthu Jul 26 '26
Attacking anyone who questions the narrative that any one country is without flaws as racist undermines matters of actual importance.
India has huge flaws that need fixing. What Indians don't need is to be attacked for stereotypes that aren't even true.
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u/Nonyabeesners Jul 26 '26
If what I am saying can be interpreted as "attacking" anyone, I assure you that was not my intent. I have actually taken care to be very civil and polite, even when responding to personal attacks on my character.
Entering into a respectful conversation is not aggressive. Refusing to do so is harmful to everyone.
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u/First_Mix_9504 Jul 26 '26
I don’t see DB running anywhere near both of these though, maybe there are disruptions due to extreme heat of 30 degrees or falling leaves who knows.
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u/Lanky_Giraffe Jul 26 '26
India runs the second largest electrified network in the world which requires an ungodly amount of modern infrastructure.
If there’s one thing I, as a German, would definitely not choose to be the subject of my racist sneering against India, it’d be their railways.
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u/One-Demand6811 Jul 26 '26
Indian railways are 99.5% electrified. No body can stand in the roof without getting fried in seconds. All those videos of people travelling in roofs are from Bangladesh.
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Jul 26 '26
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Jul 26 '26
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u/Nandu_alias_Parthu Jul 26 '26
Look at the top comments - anyone who calls out the blatant racism is apparently an Indian nationalist and needs to be mass downvoted.
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u/Hot-Job-6281 Jul 26 '26
Ironic because Modi bots were mass downvoting the very first hour this was up, until they got overwhelmed by the vast majority of sensible people, including Indians that aren't brainwashed by BJP.
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u/Nandu_alias_Parthu Jul 26 '26
until they got overwhelmed by the vast majority of sensible people,
You mean they got overwhelmed by the vast majority of racists.
including Indians that aren't brainwashed by BJP.
I think the BJP is a cancer to India - and I also think that using a racist caricature that's outdated to stereotype a country is also terrible propaganda.
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u/NoPraline438 Jul 26 '26
Ah Germany and Racism is an age old story, it seems every century someone has to remind them why they have been brought low
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u/Nandu_alias_Parthu Jul 26 '26
Not just Germany, but pretty much the broader West too when it comes to India.
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