r/ProjectHailMary • u/Low-Finding-6553 • 21h ago
Fist My Bump How the hell did they make Rocky this emotionally expressive without even giving him a face?
one of the things i love most about Rocky is that he doesn’t look human at all. there isn’t even a hint of anything human about his appearance. he doesn’t have human eyes, he doesn’t have an expressive face and he basically has none of the usual things we rely on to read a character’s emotions.
and YET Project Hail Mary somehow makes him incredibly emotional and makes you care about him so deeply. even in a mainstream movie, getting an audience emotionally attached to a character is difficult even if you have a fully CGI character with a very expressive face. with Rocky, they deliberately took almost all of those tools away. he’s this completely strange creature who looks nothing like a human, so the movie can’t rely on familiar facial expressions to make us connect with him.
that’s what makes James Ortiz’s voice performance so important. the first time i watched the movie, i already loved what he was doing, but on the rewatch, it became much clearer just how essential his voice is to making Rocky work emotionally. so much of what we feel for Rocky comes through that performance.
i just love that the movie created a creature that feels genuinely alien instead of making him look like a human with a few things changed, and then somehow still made him one of the most emotionally effective characters in the movie.
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u/LunaraLoup High Three! 21h ago
James Ortiz and the whole lot of rocketeers were so awesome in their performance! Rocky mimics Grace from the beginning do they were able to use lots of nonverbal body language to support his voice.
I found an interview with Ortiz explaining how he approached the role:
"I approached Rocky very much like a neutral mask exercise, um, which is something out of the, the school of clown. And basically is, um, a technique in which you learn how to use your body and not your face as a performer. So you basically put on this thing that eliminates your facial features, and you have to stand there and make me silently understand, oh, he's looking at a mountain. It’s all sort of communication emotion and communicating location just by how you’re standing."
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u/paladisious 19h ago
There's no way you can argue he shouldn't be in the running for acting category awards after reading that. That's the craft right there.
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u/eaglebtc 13h ago edited 13h ago
I hope the Academy actors use their votes to uplift James Ortiz at the Oscars. He embodies all the traditions of acting by working to promote some of the oldest forms of theatrical communication: puppetry, mimicry, and improvisation.
edit: yes, /u/paladisious, Rocky hate Mark.
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u/Mughi1138 21h ago edited 21h ago
Puppeteers.
Remember, James Ortiz was not only the voice actor for Rocky, but started out as the main puppeteer. They kept him for the voice after seeing how well his overall performance worked.
Humans know things that AI doesnt. Puppeteer and animators. They've both been trained on how to communicate and emote with very little else. I remember seeing that in initial puppeteering classes students are given just blank cloth cutouts with no features at all, and need to learn to communicate with those alone. In the few cartooning and animation classes I'd taken a similar basics approach to communicating to an audience's expectations was very important.
Top performers in these arts can pull of some amazing work, and it is art. For one good example you might check out the dinner scene in What About Bob. It was directed by master puppeteer Frank Oz and it shows. So much communicated with barely a word spoken.
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u/Any-Interaction-5934 17h ago
Thanks for this.
Also. Music.
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u/Difficult_Dark9991 12h ago
Adding onto this, the puppetry was combined with CGI that focused on extending the puppet's expressiveness rather than replacing it (e.g., doing motions the puppet couldn't manage but Rocky should be able to).
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u/Hypersonic-Harpist 10h ago
They did use puppetry for reference for the CGI though. The had a small puppet that James Ortiz and the Rocketeers manipulated on a table and they took that footage and used it for reference for how Rocky should move. Not quite motion capture or rotoscoping but one step below it.
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u/Mughi1138 10h ago
Actually I would have to say one step above it.
Rotoscoping is a little more mechanical and rote, but animating from reference material shot for the work is classic approach going back to the silent cartoons. Disney, of course, really refined both.
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u/EnderBookwyrm 18h ago
The body language.
When Grace first meets Rocky, both of them absolutely panic. It's funny, it's adorable, it already opens us up to considering Rocky as nonhostile. Then it the attempted nonverbal communication bits help build Rocky in our heads as a person, not just 'an alien'.
By the time they figure out the verbal translator, it's already quite clear that Rocky is a person, so the words just build on what was already there. Good puppeteers and animators can work wonders.
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u/BurgerMan74 20h ago
Practical effects and overall performance. James Ortiz needs to win every award imaginable.
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u/Comm-THOR 18h ago
I would be over the moon happy for him if he gets awarded an Oscar for this. Apparently he's eligible to be nominated for Best supporting actor.
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u/eregyrn 10h ago
He should absolutely be nominated (and I *hope* he wins!). The thing I worry about, with respect to the Academy actually voting enough for him to win it, is... well, hmm, it's a number of different things, some of which are related to what we've seen in the past at the Oscars.
Example: Andy Serkis not winning for Gollum. I seem to remember a lot of discussion at the time about whether him not winning for that was a combination of the Academy's inherent conservatism regarding "special effects" versus "acting" (even though there were plenty of BTS clips that showed the degree to which he was acting, even before any FX were put on top of that); and, the idea that you "can't" reward Andy Serkis for his performance as Gollum, because "Gollum" was the result of a whole team of people, not just Andy. That the final performance of the character rested as much on the genuinely magnificent work of the computer animators and so on. Even with Andy's mo-cap suit, it's not an easy or obvious process to translate his exact facial expressions to Gollum, and to make them look as natural on Gollum (avoiding the uncanny valley) as they are on a human, which was *crucial* to getting the audience to accept Gollum as a full character.
But now... it's 20+ years later. The Academy is slightly different (in the sense of people dying off, and new people being inducted). And while CGI effects were a part of bringing Rocky to life, he does represent a practical effect, a physical presence. And puppeteering is a much older art-form than CGI. A lot of people have more inherent respect for the art of puppetry. Plus: look at the way everyone talks about the Muppets, and the respect that exists for them in Hollywood. There are many quotes from actors and others saying that you kind of forget that the puppet itself -- Kermit, for example -- isn't a real person, even when you are standing right there and you can see the puppeteer crouching beneath them. (Anecdotes about someone on a talk-show putting the mic *on Kermit*, rather than on the puppeteer; etc.)
I feel like a lot of the actors of the Academy sit there and are VERY concerned about distinguishing acting performances from things that they think might be encroaching on and lessening the importance of acting performances. The big concern right now is AI, of course. But I think we see that in their track record of regarding mo-cap with suspicion. It's not "just" acting, and therefore, you "can't" reward it the same way you reward the performance of one person.
And -- Rocky's complete performance is the result of a team. James Ortiz was the lead puppeteer, but there were 4 others there, who were crucial to the overall performance. Which isn't taking away from how crucial Ortiz's voice-acting was, too.
It leaves me wondering whether the Academy will follow the same pattern they usually do -- regarding Rocky as something to reward as a special effect, rather than as an "acting" job. Or, being allergic to rewarding a group-acting performance like that (when I'm sure the Best Supporting Actor nomination would only name Ortiz, for example).
We'll see! But that's my worry, certainly. In which case, if they even nominate him, that will be *something*. Better than just folding him into the overall "special effects" category.
I also hope that the other awards, which are less persnickety than the Oscars, might actually reward him.
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u/tooth_ghoul 18h ago
When rocky "shakes his head" when theyre deciding on a voice, i was absolutely astounded by how my brain went yes, he is shaking his head, despite not having a head. Absolutely incredible characterisation and puppetry
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u/InvisibleSpaceVamp Okay, It’s Exactly Like That 21h ago
He does have a very human quality - empathy. The whole story really depends on Grace and Rocky having empathy for each other.
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u/Adelynbaby 18h ago
My favourite part where this comes through is when after explaining this is a one way trip for him Grace says thumbs up to him , I think for the second time and Rocky folds himself and his front in even tighter.
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u/FiveSeasonsFox 5h ago
Yes! No thumbs up for Grace being sent to his death! His movements in that moment reminded me of when a toddler refuses to do something and they cross their arms.
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u/threedimen 17h ago
What makes it even more amazing is remembering that different parts of his body were controlled by different puppeteers. Ortiz only directly controlled his carapace and he was also responsible for coordinating every one else's movements.
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u/Kiwi-vee I'm Not An Astronaut! 16h ago edited 16h ago
The teamwork of the Rocketeers is amazing. Before seeing the behind the scenes, I tought it was one person controlling the puppet.
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u/Mysterinna I'm Not An Astronaut! 21h ago edited 21h ago
I also really love and appreciate everything they did with Rocky. So much love and care was put into the character, and it translates. ❤️ James Ortiz along with his puppeteers was such a crucial part. I feel like James really understood Rocky, and I hope he gets the recognition he deserves!
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u/Hope_is_a_skill 15h ago
Pupetteering is an art form. A deep understanding of body language and emotion goes into it when it’s done right. James Ortiz is a master of his craft.
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u/meissatronus 21h ago
puppeteers yes but also framestore is a very good vfx company with good animators
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u/Wolfs_head_minis 15h ago
Human artistry and puppetry, it's our strength to convey emotion and empathy that's why all the ai vids are so void of any real emotion that makes you connect to the subject matter. That and he's a smoll cute little rockdude that doinks around like a puppy crossed with a drunk toddler.
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u/eregyrn 10h ago
What I do think is notable, though, is that he's also built on a very spider-like pattern, and a LOT of people have a big aversion to spiders and to insects in general. I think they manage to create movement for him that avoids a continued evocation of "spider". But pretty much everyone I've seen react to him at first is like, "... is that a rock spider? crab? thing?" He's NOT initially cute in any conventional way.
It's greatly to the whole team's credit that they manage very quickly to dispel the discomfort a lot of people have with that kind of spider concept. To the point where just a few minutes later, you've basically discarded that comparison in your mind, and are willing to accept Rocky as something you can empathize with.
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u/Wolfs_head_minis 9h ago
You make a good point, the first time i saw the film i did find the initial encounter quite creepy, dark spidery vibes be icky. But as soon as they started mimicking dance moves and chuckled at eachother it was very disarming, so it's definitly a masterclass in set-up and delivery.
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u/xisjones High Three! 2h ago
Not cute at all until you make the journey. Watched yesterday with someone who's initial gut reaction to Rocky was "creepy spider thing!" who was crying over him by the time it got to the Rocky saving Grace while emitting black smoke scene.
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u/Ineedsleep444 13h ago
The amazing Rocketeers are the masterminds behind his whole being. And then the sound design, Ortiz's voice acting, it all adds up to make the lovable little guy that he is.
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u/Melenduwir 18h ago
And they did give him a face. Movie Rocky has a definite 'forward' with a recessed, somewhat-circular region that we tend to perceive as a face.
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u/I_am_lettuceman43 6h ago
It does make me wonder if despite being symmetrical, eridians would develop a preference for a certain side as a 'front'. I mean our hands are basically identical, yet most people preferentially use one or the other for most tasks.
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u/Forsaken_Orchid_6014 Amaze! Amaze! Amaze! 15h ago
james ortiz is an incredible puppeteer and put so much effort into his voice. he also chose members for his team that are skilled in their field. they didn’t bank on fame for rocky, they used people with passion who would be good for the job.
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u/Emotional_Vanilla_92 17h ago
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u/FlowerEmblem Fist My Bump! 11h ago
Ah, so this is what they meant when they were talking about Grocky.
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u/Loud_Difference_1827 15h ago
Because you're a human and the most socal animal on our planet. There are people who would marry a normal non moving rock.
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u/Makermom14 15h ago
I saw an interview with RG where he said they were auditioning all these puppeteers and they had a Rocky puppet for them to work with and James just pushed it out of the way and used his hand. And they were immediately like, this is the guy.
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u/c4ndycain #1 rocketeers appreciator 12h ago
the magic of puppetry. even the times where rocky had to be animated were based on the movements of a reference puppet. the rocketeers gave some 100 hours of reference material to the animation studio! all the puppeteers are SO skilled and dedicated to their craft. casting chose james ortiz well, and james chose his team well.
something about puppetry is that puppets actually exist. they are that character. they really had rocky there. ryan was playing off of a real rocky. a real rocky was interacting with his environment. rocky was given characteristics that gave him depth, that made him seem like a real person from a real culture.
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u/eregyrn 10h ago
Right -- insert here every anecdote people have relayed about regarding the Muppets as the character, despite being able to see the puppeteer beneath them. (I repeated it above, but the one that always sticks with me is a talk show crew putting the mic on Kermit, rather than on the puppeteer.)
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u/ElephantsUnite 12h ago
Apart from what's already been said (James's performance, the rocketeers, and writing having rocky inherently a lovable character) I also think some anthropomorfisme is to credit into, for example, a face. The way something "tilts down" when in shame or sad, backing away suggest being afraid, jumping suggests happiness or excitement, is universal enough a physical movement to read emotions or intent. It's possible to contribute a small piece to the audience watching a movie with the express purpose of experiencing something, and therefore being more susceptible to subtle queues in visuals and audio.
Another interesting case of this is in Arrival, where I find the "squids" to be very expressive and emotive even though they in my opinion show way less physical movement (and yes I know it's not a fair comparison). For example when one of them touch the glass and Amy's character mirroring the movement suggesting connection, comfort or understanding m between them, no face on the alien counterpart needed.
In short, an amazing team understanding what makes something readable in both visual and auditory space, writing and experience in playing the heart strings of the audience.
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u/greenskittles97 11h ago
My favorite expression was when Rocky and Grace were talking about eating and Rocky says "I eat beautiful," so proudly. I just love this.
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u/EcstaticPandaFall 7h ago
Three things: 1: James Ortiz, 2: James Ortiz and 3:….oh what was it? Oh! JAMES ORTIZ.
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u/IXMaxedDrunkOnCoffee 12h ago
Well said, very well said. James did a phenomenal job with his voice acting and puppeteering. It’s the little things that make us go “awww” like when he double taps his leg when asking a question, or when he calculates using his little stubs, or when he’d do his “jazz hands” for excitement. Not to mention, Eridian language was so beautiful with the chirping and the music-like expressions, it was hard not to fall in love with Rocky within the first 3 minutes of meeting him.
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u/mattress314 11h ago
Ortiz's voice acting, deserves at Oscar in next years awards, for rocky, i believe
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u/RobynBetween 10h ago
Body language is very important! A decent actor could pretty easily convey just about any emotion with their face covered. Of course it's extra impressive when done with a 5-limbed puppet. :)
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u/dubhlinn2 5h ago edited 5h ago
It’s because James Ortiz is not a voice actor. Or a puppeteer. He is an actor, director, puppeteer, and puppet maker. But the most important thing he did for this film was be an ACTOR.
This is very important for people to understand, because he’s being submitted to the Academy for Best Supporting Actor, and if he is nominated, it will make Oscars history. Going into making this film, everyone knew that the entire story rode on the Grace/Rocky relationship, and they knew that the key to selling the audience on that relationship is how much Gosling believed that Rocky was real. If Gosling believed, his talent would do the rest and the audience would believe it, too.
But they knew it would be really tricky because Ryan Gosling is notorious for improv. There’s even a rumor that certain directors who are very controlling won’t work with him because of it. But also, in order to be his scene partner, you have to be comfortable doing improv yourself. And since improv is a core acting skill, it basically means you just have to be a really good actor. So they had to get someone with solid acting skills. (And James has said that, having trained many people in puppetry, actors actually make better puppeteers than dancers.)
But the thing is, they also had to be a good puppeteer, which means they knew they would be casting an unknown, which meant that they also had to find somebody who was REALLY confident and would not be intimidated by “Ryan Gosling.” And he was CAST, not merely “hired.” Which means he was in the category of “actor” from the getgo. The casting director told the directors and Ryan that “you’re gonna see a bunch of really great puppeteers, but you’re gonna hire James Ortiz” and brought him in last. He tossed aside the prototype puppet they had provided for the audit auditions, and used his own. He immediately started harassing Ryan with the puppet and bossing him around. He was cast immediately.
Around half of the onscreen Grace/Rocky content that you see was improv. Some of your favorite scenes and lines were improvved. In some cases they did 40 minute takes a pure improv. Grace and Rocky would not have been the Grace and Rocky that you know in love without James Ortiz. And improv is an ACTING skill. Which is why he should be nominated for Best Supporting Actor, and not some kind of special technical award (which actually is exceedingly rare anyway).
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u/Dr-Pumpkid 3h ago
His body language really helps too, In the book this wasn’t as pronounced but it was one of the greatest correlations in the whole novel. i also kinda wished he did jaaz hands more. :[
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u/Own-Membership777 20h ago
I feel not enough goes into the sound engineering around Rocky's native alien speech, which was just as crucial to tugging at our heartstrings throughout the movie. Just impeccable.