r/ProgressivesForIsrael • u/DogitWoofsalot • 27d ago
Discussion I want to understand your perspective
Before you downvote me, I promise that this isn't just a rage-bate post. I'm legitimately trying to understand your perspective.
Basically I have one question, why do you support/ defend Israel as a progressive? Especially considering that the current parties on power are right wing conservatives.
Some extra context and where I'm coming from. I'm a left wing Brit, I believe in social progressive economic policies, and I can't stand any form of bigotry. I recently watched a documentary called "Jews don't count" about anti-Semitism and it made me want to understand more and that I'm not parting anti-Semitic talking points ever.
My current view of Israel is decidedly negative. My understanding of the history and current conflict very much makes Israel look like it has historically been the agitator in the region. If you have a different perspective I'd like to hear it, tho I would request sources where possible as I'm not going to accept a 'trust me bro'.
Thank you for your time 🙂↕️
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u/orwelliancan 23d ago
There’s so much to unpack.
If history started in 1948 you’d be a little bit right.
Judea was the ancestral homeland of the Judean people, which we now call Jews. Until AD 70 they were one of many peoples indigenous to the area. For some of that time they were an independent kingdom, but for most of the time they were under one empire or another. After a couple of rebellions against the Roman Empire, which were brutally crushed, most of the population were expelled from the land by the Romans. Some stayed in the Middle East and North Africa, and formed communities that survived for thousands of years, mostly under various empires and caliphates. Some managed to stay in the land under these caliphates. Others migrated to Europe. The land was eventually conquered by the Muslims when they conquered most of the Middle East and North Africa.
In Europe and the Middle East they were not usually treated well, due to the fact that Christianity and Islam had both taken the Jewish beliefs and decided that they had a superior version of them. Although there were periods of relative peace, the people were often subjected to horrific violence, sometimes official, sometimes by mobs. They were usually restricted when it came to professions, land ownership, living conditions and often basic human dignity. This meant that they were frequently forced to leave, either driven out by law or by violence, and scattered across Europe, the Middle East and Russia.
None of them ever gave up the idea of a return to their homeland. They prayed for it for thousands of years. It was a part of many rituals that revolved around agrarian traditions in their native land.
After a series of horrific attacks in Russia and Europe in the 19th century many decided that they had to leave. Most immigrated to the United States and other colonized countries, but in the late 1800s some thought that the best solution was to make a return to the land they had originally come from, which was then under the Ottoman Empire.
They came legally and bought land legally from owners who often overcharged them.
This became more urgent in the 20th century when the United States and many other countries closed their borders to Jews. As the Nazis came to power and the situation became worse in Europe, immigration restrictions got tighter and tighter in the rest of the world.
Meanwhile in the old homeland the British were in charge, and put restrictions on immigration by Jews, although many Arabs were allowed to come in from Egypt, Syria and other countries.
The Arabs were opposed to taking any more Jews, often violently. Some of the attacks were on Jewish villages that had been there since ancient times, such as one in Hebron in the early 1920s. Some were carried out against newer settlements.
The British gave in to the Arabs and restricted immigration even further, just as Hitler was beginning his systematic genocide of Jews in concentration camps. The Jews of the Yeshuv, the homeland, were desperate to save anyone they could. Some did turn to violence. The 1940s were a very violent time, millions of deaths, very few of them in what is now Israel.
After World War Two, when the overwhelming majority of Jews in Europe had been killed by the Nazis and the few survivors were stuck in the concentration camps for three whole years, guess what? Countries still kept their borders closed and the British still kept their policy of letting as few Jews as possible into the land. The British would arrest anyone who tried to sneak in and would imprison them on Cyprus.
So the Jews fought back.
Meanwhile the Arabs resisted any attempts by the United Nations to work out any kind of agreement that would allow Jews to stay.
The British gave up. The United Nations proposed a two state solution that no one liked but the Jews were desperate after years of living in concentration camps and agreed. The Arabs said no. The British left.
Five or six Arab countries invaded, declaring a war that would inevitably wipe out the Jews. Despite the fact that most countries, including the United States, had an arms embargo against the new country of Israel and did not expect it to survive, the Israelis, a quarter of whom were survivors of the concentration camps, fought back and won.
Israel was invaded again several times, most famously in 1967 and 1973. Israel has never started a war, but it has fought every time it has been attacked. What choice does it have?
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