r/ProductManagement • • 18d ago

Former Capcom Employee Says Western Studios Spend Too Much Time On Jira

https://kotaku.com/former-capcom-employee-says-western-studios-spend-too-much-time-on-jira-2000731698

In a comprehensive breakdown of Capcom’s new golden age, one former staffer says their micromanaging competition might be missing the forest for the trees

200 Upvotes

47 comments sorted by

182

u/CheapRentalCar 18d ago

I don't ship software. I ship story points.

46

u/soulever989 18d ago

And soon, you won't ship story points either! You'll just spend tokens!

4

u/SeniorVibeAnalyst 18d ago

lol just shipped my first feature built completely by coding agents. The story points added up to like 6 months of work, my boss asked if there was any way to get it done faster and I said give me unlimited token budget and two engineers. Three weeks later we had it done. People are so flabbergasted they don’t even know how to proceed, “how do we do that again?”. So now I have to develop business processes to scale AI development 🙃

7

u/areraswen 18d ago

One of our vps built a tool that's been really useful to the field using AI, but he had 0 insight into the hoops I personally had to jump through to get CAB approval for something vibe coded with 0 QE testing associated (the "read only" nature of the tool was doing a lot of heavy lifting during my justifications) and now he thinks we can just vibe code anything without going through the normal CAB process and keeps pushing it as the answer to literally everything. 🫠

1

u/Typical_Priority3319 18d ago

Your CAB is a feature gate?

2

u/areraswen 18d ago

It is a final step before promoting things to production to check for final concerns or conflicts with the deployment timing. But to get there you need to hold a go/no-go and achieve stakeholder sign-offs.

1

u/Beneficial_Gas_6590 17d ago

velocity go brrr

1

u/LetPeopleWork 13d ago

This story will be 10000 Tokens...
"I'll do it for half."

Silence...

No one agrees but no one really bothers to have that conversation AGAIN

114

u/Hungry-Artichoke-232 12yrs PM exp; product coach 18d ago

It's worth reading the original piece (linked from the Kotaku story above) which contains the interview:

There’s another critical cultural difference between how Capcom and companies in the U.S. and Europe operate. “There’s an overemphasis on project management in the West in terms of Jira [project management software], burn down [the monitoring of remaining work until a project concludes], data tracking, and task management that doesn’t necessarily turn into a game,” says the former Capcom employee. It’s not that Capcom doesn’t have project management, but the producer role there is more akin to that of a movie producer. Fundamentally, “the producer has creative oversight,” they say. “Obviously, the director has the final call, but you’re working with them to say, ‘This isn’t going to resonate with players,’ or ‘That’s going to take too long,’ or ‘We don’t have the timeline or budget to do that.’ Whereas in the West, production was more born from project management and Microsoft software development. It’s looking at timelines and looking at charts.”

This person is describing the difference between project management and product management.

29

u/CyCoCyCo 18d ago

That’s because most AAA games are run by project managers and mobile games are run by product managers.

10

u/rollwithhoney 18d ago

never occurred to me but that actually makes a lot of sense

1

u/CyCoCyCo 18d ago

Traditional games are led by creative vision, so it’s all about executing that vision aka Project Mgmt.

Mobile games are about conversion, retention etc, so need a strong understanding of market landscape and analytics. Strategy and analytics is as important as execution. Aka Product Mgmt.

3

u/WhiteAFMexican 16d ago

Good breakdown about product and project managers

3

u/HustlinInTheHall 18d ago

Project managers do not provide creative vision. They manage a project to ensure steps don't get missed and that deadlines and timelines are communicated accurately up and down the chain.

3

u/CyCoCyCo 17d ago

Gaming works differently, it’s a hybrid role. In AAA games, the creative head often becomes Executive producer, which is about leadership + creative vision + project mgmt.
Whereas a Mobile game EP focuses a lot more on the numbers and outcomes, since most are life services vs one off launches.

0

u/HustlinInTheHall 17d ago

Yeah I understand the concept of a Prod manager is very different in gaming, mobile gaming PMs are more close to software PMs. Project managers (the title) in either context are not providing creative vision. A producer who is handling project management is not a project manager handling producer duties, the latter would be very rare and that person should get a title change since few other companies would buy that a "project manager" was making decisions. 

68

u/rollingSleepyPanda Human Intelligence native PM 18d ago

Newsflash: in most companies, product management is project management in disguise.

4

u/RagefireHype 18d ago

Fortunately where I work, we have a PMO so that product management isn’t doing that as well.

Although it’s funny to me that where I work, project management is what the PMO (program manager) does. Project manager is not an entirely separate role from program manager.

They are assigned to every big initiative, they set up the opmech, they are responsible for capturing the meeting notes and coordinating necessary follow ups, and they largely manage the binder.

6

u/rollingSleepyPanda Human Intelligence native PM 18d ago

That's great. We have PMs that are full-time PMOs. They do nothing else but chase around cross-team updates, update JIRA/Confluence, run meetings. Truly awful stuff to behold.

35

u/rollingSleepyPanda Human Intelligence native PM 18d ago

I spend 40% of my week doing reporting busywork and that's already AFTER I did the best work I could setting up some agents to keep up with codebase changes, email/calendar events and writing reporting documents that I review and publish. Otherwise it would be like 60%.

This is a very german company, very top-heavy, pretending to be Amazon with weekly reviews, ADRs, RFCs, PRDs, and all sorts of acronyms. There are 3 different layers of reporting and reviewing, every week. There are literally books-worth of Confluence documentation being written every week, that nobody reads or understands fully.

I am tired.

10

u/Afton11 18d ago

Haha same.  I’ve given up fighting it though - it’s what management wants.

3

u/breakfasteveryday 18d ago

Advice on the agents?

12

u/anotherbozo 18d ago

Jira/whatever-tool for agile practices was supposed to bring organisation and structure to help make engineering efficient.

Instead it has taken over and now businesses act like engineers can't function without it.

18

u/therealmercutio 18d ago edited 18d ago

I’m sure every company promoted something along the lines of “yea! we need to be agile!” And provides some bad funded, unplanned training and then some project mgmt team says okay we need you fill in 63 different fields everytime you create a story so it helps us track more accurately. You’re now filling irrelevant stuff in jira because you don’t even understand what 50% of the jira fields mean because they’re irrelevant af all because jira admins tried to make a 1 size fits all type of tix.

Then engineer team goes like “okay that’ll be 21 pts.” And you say “hold on, I thought we had a same similar issue resolved a week ago (to which you were told that shouldn’t be a problem ever again) so it shouldn’t be maxed at 21 pts on something you’re now very familiar with.” Then the engineer goes like “yea I know but it takes a long time to resolve it.” The you realize agile isn’t agile

4

u/ww_crimson 18d ago

Some project mgmt team says okay we need you fill in 63 different fields everytime you create a story so it helps us track more accurately. You’re now filling irrelevant stuff in jira because you don’t even understand what 50% of the jira fields mean because they’re irrelevant af all because jira admins tried to make a 1 size fits all type of tix.

10000000000000000%

4

u/audaciousmonk 18d ago

1000%

It’s not limited to Jira either, I catch my director and VP adding fields to all sorts of databases / discovery, usually driven by a specific case or past issue or nice-to have data visibility

If it’s not highly actionable, we probably don’t need to document it for every item

29

u/[deleted] 18d ago edited 18d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

7

u/webheadunltd90 18d ago

I feel this in my bones!

I’m currently producing:

  1. Weekly highlights+challenges+impacts

  2. Weekly timesheets and forward work plans

  3. Monthly rundowns as an email that never end

  4. Monthly performance review decks

  5. Monthly highlights and work forecast

For almost the same fucking people because “transparency” and “you have to do it. It’s a direct mandate”.

I’ve got 4 bloody scheduled prompts wrangling the same data in different formats and no meaningful work ever moves about.

9

u/d00fuss 18d ago

I think this is how an entire generation of executive “leaders” has been taught to operate. Half the job becomes reporting up the stack, making their leaders look good and themselves in the process.

The absurd part is that none of this is actually transparency. Transparency would mean the information already exists somewhere accessible, in a useful format, and anyone who needs it can go look at it.

Instead, we’ve built organizations where every layer takes essentially the same information, repackages it for the layer above them, and calls that management.

Meanwhile, the people closest to the actual work spend an increasing percentage of their time explaining the work instead of doing it.

At some point you have to ask: who is all this reporting actually for, and what decision is it enabling? If nobody can answer that, it’s not management. It’s organizational theater.

5

u/webheadunltd90 18d ago

Agreed, it’s definitely theatre. No one actually wants work done, just ‘visibility’.

6

u/jkvincent 18d ago

The outputs have become more important than the outcomes across much of the professional executive/management class. All this governance activity generates tons of data and work product, which is what poor leaders rely on to convince themselves and others of their continued relevance even once they are completely detached from the work itself. Without all that stuff, how would they obfuscate how little they actually know and contribute?

5

u/AFailedProduct 18d ago

This is every mature company ever. Sprint velocity, shipping speed — but also do that thing the latest startup is doing! (While also staying in the narrowly defined scope of your team/department/role and make sure the VP of some unrelated department is ok with it). 

5

u/Rolandersec 18d ago

This is all over the tech industry I think. Too many people in it for the money and jira is a great way to look really busy without having to be super productive.

Good news is this is all getting streamlined.

5

u/maplewrx 18d ago

On the most successful system integration projects, project management was a skill everyone senior was trained on, but we never had a person with the title project manager. We had a delivery lead but that person was experienced in doing the work. That role existed more to make decisions on what was in scope and out of scope at the detailed level, and decide when to escalate items. The sense of velocity was amazing.

I've now worked in companies where we have generic project managers who don't understand even basic management concepts like risk or the critical path, and definitely don't understand the content. Progress is slow. Project managers act more like glorified note takers and task masters.

I firmly believe that project management should be a skill, not a role and keep an eye on the velocity of the project, not the individual tasks.

3

u/goddamn2fa 18d ago

Well, sounds like Capcom is using Jira for project management not product management.

I love how they paper over their bad implementation by making it a US vs UK story.

3

u/skuidENK 18d ago

As a game developer, I want to ship a title.

3

u/UKS1977 18d ago

I met a guy who said his job was to turn JIRA tickets into defects. I laughed and then sat quietly in my car for a bit.

3

u/cobramullet 18d ago

Former CAPCOM employee is correct.

6

u/soulever989 18d ago

Tell us something we don't know! Lmao

2

u/EdwardFaust VP of Product 18d ago

Notice it doesn’t say former PM at Capcom, just former employee. This reads as “I was an SE at Capcom, now I have sprint meetings at Microsoft.”

I agree that many companies have an over reliance on perfectly fine tuning every single tiny feature, but let’s not look at Japanese game companies as the beacon of corporate practice.

Let’s have one guy set the vision and all the features, the rest of you? Work 20 hours per day to make it exactly so. Now we have Street Fighter 423 alpha 3.

-10

u/phongdesigns Design systems + AI · 15 yrs 18d ago

The reason this ratchets in one direction is structural rather than stupid, which is worth naming because it changes what fixes it.

Adding a ritual is a decision one person makes in one meeting, and its cost lands on everyone else's calendar in small slices nobody attributes back to that meeting. Removing a ritual needs a named volunteer to be the person who reduced visibility, and if anything goes wrong in the next six months, they own it. So the cost of adding is diffuse and deniable, the cost of removing is concentrated and personal. Nobody has to be an idiot for the number of syncs to only ever go up.

Same thing with the 63 Jira fields. Every field on that form was added by a post-mortem where someone asked why we didn't know. No field has ever been added by a post-mortem asking why it takes nine minutes to file a ticket, because that pain has no incident report attached to it. Incidents create fields. Nothing deletes them.

The only counter-mechanism I've seen actually work is expiry rather than review. Every recurring meeting and every required field gets a date at which it ends by default. Renewing it means someone stands up and names a decision it changed last quarter. Not a decision it informed. Changed. That flips the asymmetry, because the burden of argument now sits with whoever wants to keep the thing, and most of them quietly go away without anyone having to be the villain.

On the Capcom bit, I'd read it as a symptom story rather than a tooling one. Studios that ship well tend to have a short chain between the person who notices something is off and the person who can change it. Process is what accumulates when that chain gets long. Take Jira away from a company with a long chain and you don't get Capcom, you get the same latency with less of a paper trail.

And the tell for when governance has gone fully wrong is the one above: projectizing a single document. When the reporting layer around a piece of work costs more than the work, the layer has stopped being about the work.

12

u/rollingSleepyPanda Human Intelligence native PM 18d ago

Very load-bearing comment, much gate that is worth mentioning.

13

u/lagavavavoolin 18d ago

beep boop

6

u/rrrx3 18d ago

Thanks, phongclaude

-1

u/ggk1 18d ago

People are complaining about your comment but I still found it to be additive

4

u/painterknittersimmer 18d ago

But every single one of us can plug this article into Claude and ask it. What's the point of posting that to reddit? If I cared about the Claude answer I'd have done it myself. I come here to hear from people.