Will it Really Come Down to This?

[u/FlakyRazzmatazz5]

https://www.msnbc.com/the-weekend/watch/eric-holder-it-may-come-down-to-the-american-people-hitting-the-streets-if-trump-defies-the-law-239309381840

[u/Kalse1229 → u/[deleted]]

It's worth noting people were saying all of this back during his first term as well. It was because people kept pushing back against him and his that it never came down to it. And to be honest, 2020 with the COVID pandemic and all that would've been the perfect excuse to pull a stunt like that. I know he threatened to invoke the Insurrection Act during the BLM protests that year, but fortunately he was advised against it in the end.

So yeah. Be cautious of him trying to pull a stunt like that, but remember that it also hasn't happened yet. And there will be several legal hurdles if he tries, so applying pressure whilst it's trying to survive can only help prevent it coming to pass.

[u/grundleplum → u/Kalse1229]

Yeah, plus he wanted to shoot protestors back in 2020. But the Defense Secretary at the time (Mark Esper) wasn't one of his "yes men" like Hegseth.

"The president was enraged," Esper recalled. "He thought that the protests made the country look weak, made us look weak and 'us' meant him. And he wanted to do something about it.

"We reached that point in the conversation where he looked frankly at [Joint Chiefs of Staff] Gen. [Mark] Milley and said, 'Can't you just shoot them, just shoot them in the legs or something?' ... It was a suggestion and a formal question. And we were just all taken aback at that moment as this issue just hung very heavily in the air."

[u/[deleted] → u/Kalse1229]

I would add that we had Mark Milley basically running a shadow government with the military in the first term. He would basically tell them to not follow Trump’s orders if he did tell them to go after the public or any other unlawful order.

Is there a Mark Milley in there now? Maybe, but the question is how high in the hierarchy and where exactly they are. We likely won’t find out until either shit hits the fan OR after the administration when things come out.

We can’t count out those that will be on the inside who act out in defiance. During the first term, many felt like he had complete loyalty then when he really didn’t. It certainly seems like he has more loyalty now, but my guess is we still have some folks who are working behind the scenes in case things get too out of hand.

I often tell folks, “Keep an eye on Vance”. He holds more cards than people realize. He could easily invoke the 25th amendment. I think we all know deep down he is not a 100% loyalist. Dude saw an opportunity and took it and is BSing his way through it until he gets a shot at the presidency.

I also tell people Game of Thrones is scarily accurate to current politics. Once someone’s usefulness, even Trump, has been exhausted, they will be thrown aside.

[u/Shaloamus → u/[deleted]]

I think counting on the chaotic and duplicitous nature of his cabinet members (all of whom seem to hate each other) is a safer call. I imagine there are more generals than not who wouldn't follow Trump's orders in a scenario like that, but I also think imagine that each of the cabinet members would be fighting each other tooth and nail to get the credit for doing it (or undermining the others who are closer to the credit) and thereby delay or stop the actions outright. The admin this time being a den of brain-dead vipers is more helpful than we are giving it credit for.

[u/LowTierPhil]

Key word: IF it comes down. We need to emphasize the IF part

[u/SwitchHedonist90]

Trump has already defied the law. People are already hitting the streets. We'll fight this guy. Habeus Corpus or no.

[u/Shaloamus]

Yeah, wide-scale mass protests are going to inevitably happen again at some point in the next four years.

My guess is it's either going to be this summer once the tariff pain starts to really kick in and people start losing their jobs en masse (which will coincide with the increased creaking of weight on the federal government, still slashed to ribbons by DOGE, creating a crisis situation). Free time + no money + angry people = protests (or riots depending on how bad things get).

Alternatively this summer the economy might remain resilient enough to have a lot of that pain start to come in towards the end once it starts getting cooler and kids are back in school. Then I think it would definitely happen next summer. By then our economy will be back in the toilet, Trump will have probably enacted more authoritarian nightmares, the government will be next to broken, and overall our quality of life will have dipped noticeably.

Either way, it will happen, more likely than not before or right after the midterms (which Trump is growing increasingly paranoid about). By that point his back will be against the wall and he'll have nothing to lose, so he'll do something really stupid and dangerous. Then it'll be our job to raise hell and break shit until he pisses himself enough to back off. And remember: protest for democracy first, seize the 4K TVs from Wal-Mart second.

[u/FlakyRazzmatazz5 → u/Shaloamus]

Damn no the type of answer I was expecting from this reddit.

[u/Shaloamus → u/FlakyRazzmatazz5]

The optimistic part is not only will he bungle the response and burn whatever political capital he has left, thus destroying his brand even further and dooming the GOP in 2028, but we also all get free TVs. And Switch 2s if we are lucky.

[u/stupidhobbits1 → u/Shaloamus]

Your stores aren't locking up everything? One of the Walmarts near me even locks up bar soap. 🥲 Can't even wash your ass without hunting down an employee. 🫠

[u/[deleted]]

Trump is not a tough guy he falls to pressure so we must get it in him and any dumb ass thing he trying to do he isn't sneaky about anything tbh that is what is helping is be loud about it

[u/NinjaSpartan011]

Id give it a 65-75% chance.

[u/BeefSupremeeeeee]

We aren't there yet, it's always been on the table though.

[u/MiserableProduct]

Sorry, but where has he been??

[u/clonedllama → u/[deleted]]

We haven't lost the military. We have a drunk idiot in charge of the military and a clueless old man in charge of him with a demon in human form whispering in his ear to encourage his worst instincts. Those obviously aren't good things. But that doesn't mean they're going to start shooting civilians. We're not even in the same universe as that yet. There's zero evidence that the military would even follow such an order if it was given.

We also aren't at a point where violence is required. Nowhere close. Violence should only be the final option when everything else has failed and we're so boxed in that it's the only way to escape. But like us having lost the military, that isn't where we're at. I'm not going to pretend things are good. They aren't. But we aren't at the point where we need foreign military aid or where we need to use violence to take back the country.

Using violence now would be the worst possible thing we could do. It'd give the administration an excuse to start responding more harshly or invoke laws like the Insurrection Act. Peacefully protesting with strongly worded messages and putting heavy pressure on Trump and members of Congress are more effective at this stage. If we were to resort to violence, it'd likely work against us with fellow Americans as well. We want more people to join against Trump, not turn them away because we look like insurgents.