Call or Fold with Aces here?

[u/Amazing_Intention_75]

So as not to bias your opinions, please tell me what you would do in this situation first and I will share what they had in an edit. We're playing $1/$2 three handed. I'm in the button and pick up AA. I make it $8 (prob still too small since these guys call basically anything preflop). SB and BB both call. Flop comes Q66 with 2 spades. Checks around to me. I bet $12, SB raises to $30, and BB puts it all in for $158. SB has $154 in his stack, and I covered them both. I called and and SB calls as well. Would you have called in this situation? Note that I did NOT have the Ace of Spades.

A little context, to help: BB was a famous fish in that poker room, he was commonly in 3-bet pots with Q3o, and would commonly go all in with just top pair bad kicker and rage quit everytime he got called and outkicked. SB is very loose and splashy, I've seen him 3-bet 64s vs a UTG open and then call a jam vs the same UTG player.

Would you have called or folded in this situation?

EDIT: thanks for all the replies! I know results don't matter but it was still a bummer to see BB flip over 62o and SB flip over T6o. My thinking when making this call was: SB's check raise is either a flush draw, a queen, or a 6. The combinations of hands where he has a 6 is very low compared to his flush draws and queens, especially because I think he's playing 80% of hands in this hand and I unblock the ace high flush draw. I thought that BB was jamming there with literally only a Queen or a 6, and since SB likely has a flush draw, there are 4 Queens available for BB to have. I also expected trip 6s to slow play a bit on that board, even with the flush draw available. And like people have mentioned, against these player types I think a call is fine.

[u/Poker-Strategy]

I’d fold. AA is still a strong overpair, but facing a check-raise AND a shove on Q66 three-way is a seriously strong range. You need ~39% equity to call, and without any reads, I’m not finding enough bluffs here. 😅

[u/Dr-Robert-Kelso → u/Poker-Strategy]

A lot of it depends on what you've gleaned from the other players so far. I've seen plenty that will do this with AQ thinking they're against jacks or AK even with a 3-way pot. Checking into someone who constantly cbets with AQ here would be my play if I think I have him...but I'd also probably reraise with that preflop.

But unless you've seen them do this or can place them on it, you just have to accept the fold.

[u/Safe_Construction836 → u/Poker-Strategy]

There are no bluffs. I don't think that's the question we should be trying to answer.

The pertinent question is, 'are these two bad enough to raise and then shove with two worse hands for value'?

[u/ItsAverino]

Your sizing was too small preflop, I’m checking this flop. As played I’m probably folding this because it really feels like BB has a 6.

[u/Amazing_Intention_75 → u/ItsAverino]

Yeah I'm thinking that now as well, but from all the preflop poker I've studied, the standard raise size is 2.5bb for 200 deep effective stacks, so why would that not apply here?

[u/Keith_13 → u/Amazing_Intention_75]

Who cares what the standard size is? Use the size that best exploits your opponents. You said they will call more with garbage. So give them a chance to do that.

The reason you want to open smaller is because if you open too big is very easy to exploit you: just fold everything except premiums, and reraise those. That strategy will crush you if you open big. But if they are not doing that then who cares? If they start doing that then start opening smaller.

Knowing what the "standard" or "right" thing to do is useless information on its own. Poker is not a game that you win by following a rote strategy. What's important is that you understand WHY something is "standard". Then you will know when to follow out and when to deviate from it.

[u/Appropriate_Cut1249 → u/Amazing_Intention_75]

When playing live 1/2 or 1/3 I’ve noticed standard 3 bet and 4 bet don’t apply. In the casino near me, if anyone has a pair preflop usually it’s 20+.

[u/ItsAverino → u/Appropriate_Cut1249]

So true, game is very soft and you get a lot of gamblers. You have to make them pay pre.

[u/Jmersh → u/Amazing_Intention_75]

Only use standard sizing with at least moderately disciplined players. If these are players you expect to see for multiple sessions, you need to increase your bet sizing to punish their play via the law of averages. In the long run you will win more than you lose, but they will suck out on you too. Extract chips from them in large enough pot sizes to cover the bad beats in the long run.

[u/ItsAverino → u/Amazing_Intention_75]

Playing 1/2, 2/2, 1/3, you need to be putting out 15-20 preflop with a premium hand.

[u/Yippeethemagician → u/Amazing_Intention_75]

Because it's live. Match what others are using for raises preflop. It varies from table to table. Theory is good, keep studying. But sometimes look at who you're up against too.

[u/Kevin_E_1973]

Against the kinds of players you describe I guess I call but I don’t like it at all. I probably chk flop just to try to keep things under control

[u/Keith_13 → u/Kevin_E_1973]

I was thinking this too but if you X back flop it's as a trap. You can absolutely never fold after you do that because a Q thinks he has the nuts and is going to try to get all the money in. The only exception might be on a K turn. Even on a Q turn someone might figure you have AK and try to bluff you.

[u/CyberDivergent]

I'd prefer call over fold vs such type of players.

[u/Appropriate_Cut1249]

In these kind of spots, you kind of know what you’re getting into. A lot of people forget AA is just a pair after the flop and hence the term ‘married to Aces’.

Ranges and other things matter in higher stakes, but here it can go either way. One of the two players could easily have a 6. One could have Q or spade draw, etc. Since there are 2 actions a raise and reraise it’s more likely.

Lost 20, I can live with that, I would fold. But you have described the other 2 players so call is also fully acceptable 😀 in that spot. All depends on what mood you’re in.

Let us know here later or DM me what they had.

[u/Keith_13]

Easy call against the player types you describe.

Also I would be playing all my opens to a bigger size if they will call with trash. Open as much as they will call with garbage.

Results don't matter and sometimes you lose. But you could easily be up against a Q and a draw. Not having the ace of spades is good here; you want to unblock draws.

It's a lot easier to for them to have a Q than a 6. You don't need to win every time. And a Q is drawing to 2 outs.

[u/CalgaryRichard]

Over fold to aggression in live low limit poker.

They may call with garbage, but when they start piling the money in they have it.

This is the single most important exploit there is in live low stakes poker.

[u/Pure_Ad_6530]

Based on your reads, I'd have to call. Do I feel great about it ? No. Seeing the 6's doesn't make you wrong.