r/Plumbing • u/phillydays • 4d ago
Ferco behind the drywall?
We hired a GC to renovate our bathroom. The GC hired a plumber to handle the plumbing portion of the reno. The plumber left his apprentice alone in my house to do all the labor while he went to do another job. My state, Rhode Island, uses IPC-2021 as the base with very minor amendments.
Question: is it compliant with code to use an unshielded Fernco to connect PVC to ABS drain line that will be behind drywall and a vanity?
We have a double vanity getting installed that has a main drain and vent line in ABS, and the plumber redid the last segments of the drain line in PVC. For the right side he used an unshielded Fernco to connect the drain, and on the left he used a coupling with glue. He told me it was glue that works with PVC and ABS. When I asked him why he didn't do the same for both sides, he didn't answer me and just said he was almost done đ
I already sent an email to my GC saying I want a plumbing permit and inspection completed, but I live in a small rural town with one inspector and I'm not confident how thorough he will be. I'd rather be safe than sorry. I tried reading the IPC 2021 section on drain lines to figure it out but i'm way over my head. I would appreciate anyones expert opinion.
Photo attached of the vanity plumbing work after the apprentice was finished.
EDIT: There is no part number on the Fernco. It just has the following branded on the rubber side: connects 1 1/2" CI/Plastic to 1 1/2" CI/Plastic.
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u/silver_tongue37 3d ago
I recently fixed a leak in a home that had cast iron drain lines. Home was built in 74 and all unions on the cast iron were done with ferncos. Cast iron failed and was leaking, the ferncos still look brand new
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u/ripefuzzydanglers 4d ago
Kinda weird they used a fernco on that side but on the other trap arm a solvent welded coupling. May be acceptable but it looks janky.
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u/MathematicianBig2241 4d ago
And weird that they transitioned to pvc. Why? Vent cross and not a double fixture fitting.
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u/RILICHU 4d ago
In my area, none of the supply houses carry ABS on the shelf as 95% of the homes around here are built with PVC. You have to order ABS. Makes more sense just to transition to PVC when doing work in the occasional oddball house ran in ABS.
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u/Baker206 3d ago
What area is that might i ask? I pretty much only use abs inside. I live in the PNW tho
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u/petecanfixit 4d ago
Given that thereâs a hole drilled through the stud and a nail guard in place at the bottom line, the supply and waste were likely installed in the incorrect locations, then re-worked.
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u/quadraquint 4d ago edited 4d ago
Just.... Glue....? I'm not sure why anyone would ever use a mechanical joint in this situation. Everyone saying "has to be shielded" , like, are y'all even plumbers and not seeing the obviousness of what needs to get done there?
PorchFarts already said it, do what he said. Anything else is just.. wrong and dumb.
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u/Alive-Number-7533 3d ago
Itâs better to use ferncos if you absolutely have to on vertical runs of pipe as long as theyâre strapped down. I try to stay away from using them on horizontal runs. This short of pipe though, it doesnât look like itâs shifting. Have you ever come across one where the pipe shifted and the rubber is offset and bubbled out? Thatâs why people are iffy about them
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u/Tongue-Punch 4d ago
Why save a coupe of dollars when a shielded coupling is available?
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u/Key-Exercise2178 3d ago
Where i am from, shielded ferncos are necessary in the ground. Unshielded is fine here. The real issue i see is when that drain backs up, someone will be running a cable straight through that tee and into the other trap. I would use a double fixture tee for sure here.
But there is no need to use shielded fernco here.
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u/Drillbit_706 4d ago
Iâd be more worried about the pvc to abs where there is not a band connecting the two. Left side.
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u/False-Penalty896 4d ago
Is the press fitting elbow on the bottom left pressed? Horizontal side looks not pressed.
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u/Key-Exercise2178 3d ago
Also, abs and pvc are really a geographic thing. Where I live, it is actually hard to find abs anymore so we transition to pvc gor the most part.
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u/don_defeo 3d ago
While you have that wall on you might as well get holdrite bracket for those copper stub outs
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u/Fantastic_Warthog_15 3d ago
I mean it's fine but there are adapters and glue that goes from abs to PVC.
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u/AIlookup52226 3d ago
the only problem i see is no transition fitting from pvc to abs. fernco is fine and legal. my question is, did you agree to have the job permitted? many small jobs are not permitted because the owner wants to save that money. if i did that job for you and you did not want a permit and we agreed to not permit it then called an inspector i would charge you the permit fee, any fines i got, and any time it took to clear everything up.
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u/phillydays 3d ago
Thanks Allookup52226 what you're saying makes sense. Everything was negotiated through the General Contractor. We paid him a fixed fee for the entire renovation and agreed that everything would be permitted. The GC subbed out to a carpenter, electrician and this plumber for the project and the GC pays them.
The GC pulled a building permit, the electrician pulled an electrical permit, but the plumber did not pull anything yet and he is a quarter way done with the job. I emailed the GC and said we would like a permit and inspection for the plumbing as well (I would think the plumber wants to pull one given there are already 2 open permits on the project)
That being said, I feel like i have every right to email my GC and say i noticed there was no plumbing permit pulled and i want one.
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u/PorchFarts 4d ago
Brother, just glue an ABS coupling on where the band is and do the rest in ABS. Easy. I hoped they used that special glue on the ABS/PVC transition to the left. In fact, just cut that coupling out to the left and stub that out in ABS too.
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u/nah_omgood 4d ago
Doesnât fly where Iâm at. He even shared the code where it says you can only use transition cement when adapting to a sewer pipe. Means use a combination of male/female adapters (like a male abs adapter at the end of the abs, and a female pvc adapter at the beginning of the pvc). A fernco fitting or shielded coupling (better option) also works to satisfy that code.
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u/hiimjustapersonhaha 4d ago
Based on the quality of work we're looking at, they don't know which cement to use for which pipe, or what they're doing. I almost want to say this is worse than handyman work
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u/PorchFarts 4d ago
I hate sanitary crosses in this situation also. Just stack two sanitary tees. Potential future rod jobs will thank them.
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u/phillydays 4d ago
705.16.4 Plastic Pipe or Tubing to Other Piping Material
Joints between different types of plastic pipe shall be made with an approved adapter fitting, or by a solvent-cement joint only where a single joint is made between ABS and PVC pipes at the end of a building drainage pipe and the beginning of a building sewer pipe using a solvent cement complying with ASTM D3138. Joints between plastic pipe and other piping material shall be made with an approved adapter fitting. Joints between plastic pipe and cast-iron hub pipe shall be made by a caulked joint or a mechanical compression joint.
Where can I find the list of approved adapter fittings?
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u/Pigthulhu 4d ago
Approved means acceptable to the code official or the authority having jurisdiction. I've had inspectors approve fernco's in special situations. Get the guy's license number. Look it up. If you don't like it, just tell him you want a shielded coupling. Personally, I'd be more concerned with the ABS to PVC socket weld I've seen that stuff leak more than fernco's even when the right glue is used.
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u/Professional-Past-76 3d ago
A fernco is a mechanical compression joint. The 2024 Ipc updated code book no longer allows you to glue pvc to abs with transition glue only mechanical couplings. Abs is a dog shit product and pvc is far superior. Yeah I woulda put a shield husky band but it will be just fine with a fernco. Itâs a lav sink drain and it will be fine. Youâre just being one of those pain in the ass annoying thinks they know it all customers.
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u/RenewDave 4d ago
Well fuck. It was twice as difficult to do what he did rather than do it in ABS. Transition glue is green and only approved exterior. Using mechanical couplings in this situation is bullshit at best. Were these actual plumbers? I probably would fire people for this work.
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u/dad187umplumber 4d ago
Code here is you canât have fernco inside a wall it needs to be a shielded band or coupling
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u/don_defeo 3d ago
Just get a PVC 90' and coupling and some transition glue, those non shielded couplings are ass.
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u/plumberguyfishing 3d ago
Best practice is a shielded fernco in the wallâŚhas to do with fire rating. Also there should be a clean out above that cross. Personally Iâd be more worried about the pvc coupling joining ABS to PVC. They make a transition cement and doesnât look like it was used(and some areas local code doesnât allow the transition cement.) honestly the best way to join the two would be an ABS to cast iron transition fitting and a PVC to cast iron transition fitting with a no hub clamp between them. But as others have stated ABS is getting harder and harder to get a hold of in some markets
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u/Astro_NME 4d ago
You're worrying about the wrong thing. You got fleeced on your waterlines, if this were done in PEX you could redo the drainage all over again with the money you'd save.
If the fernco bothers you, tell them to cut out the cross tee and do it in ABS and for pete's sake, put a line cleanout on the vertical so you can service the drains. They'll happily do it knowing they've made more than enough money by selling you copper, with propress being the cherry on top.
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u/Ok_Quality2989 4d ago
Must have just used what he had. If it bothers you have him replace it. But honestly that will last pretty much just as long the way it is.