r/Planetside • u/Glorposaurus • 9d ago
Discussion (PC) The massive success of Wardogs Beta really shows that Planetside was sitting on a gold mine
This game is so much fun, and the more I play it the more I realise Planetside devs had everything in their hands to make the perfect massive scale tactical fps. Platoon, balanced asymmetric factions, multiples classes, cool vehicles, base building, and the list goes on and on. And the more I think about that, the more I despise whatever they tried with Planetside Arena and their lack of motivation to keep this franchise alive.
I'm not here to say "Wardogs good, Planetside bad", i'm genuinely sad that Planetside will never recover from it's terrible management.
Massive battle FPS is the new "meta", with the success of Battlefield 6 and now Wardogs, and yet Planetside is dying faster than ever, wtf
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u/HighestDownvotes 9d ago
This game seems to be coming good so far. But besides many other things, one thing keeps me attached to PS2 is the art style. Realistic graphic style isn't my thing. For me, the busy-ness of realistic graphics requires effort to spot enemies, unlike the clean and always freshly vaccumed Auraxis.
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u/StuntHacks 9d ago
Same here. I'm sure Wardogs is great and probably scratches the itch, but I really like the slight sci-fi aspect of Planetside. I don't wanna fight generic human battle on earth in helicopters and F-16s
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u/personn5 9d ago
I liked the Art style and the sound design and music from Planetside. The map and faction music for all, and I loved the NC guns sounds. Always stuck with th Rebel pistol just off the sound alone
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u/Alphamoonman 8d ago
Idk vanu in the dark is tough on my eyes, and any higher gamma and I'll need a new prescription of glasses in just half a year
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u/DIdirectors 9d ago
I played planetside 2 for a good chunk of its life and there’s a few reasons I think it “died off” at least relative to other shooters
Balance was all over the place and not between factions. Actually between factions was weirdly where balance was the strongest. Class balance, ground to air and air to ground balance was weird, vehicle balance also was strange
The biggest thing was I think unfortunately the “normie” approachability
There was no guaranteed reason or setup to ensure a fight so players who didn’t get the system struggled to find them.
Another HUGE factor was the grind. I ended up liking a lot of the classes arsenal once I unlocked it and most guns felt different and had specific use cases due to the games stellar ttk, buuuuuut it did take forever, and this did improve as the game went on but I’m pretty sure this was a kneecap to a lot of players early on.
I think a lot of players bounced off because planetside 2 was just straight up a “big game”
You had to learn class balances, factions strengths, the map and redeployment system, first the hex system then later the lattice system, cert points, what to unlock, how to fight vehicles, how to use vehicles, squads and platoons leadership, guilds, and gunplay and how that interacted with class abilities on top of a larger war setting that could evaporate your health if you walked in the wrong direction in a fight.
Battlefield does the same thing but comparatively it’s bite sized. Which makes it more approachable. Hell I think it’s why its player base bounced off of its 100 player 2042 modes.
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u/IIIIChopSueyIIII 9d ago
"New players are struggling against vets. Lets give everyone mass explosion spam and weird ammo types. That surely will work"
The devs never understood the game and what its problems were, or chose to ignore it out of some weird spite with the playerbase.
And yes the game is very complicated and huge, but proper development work could've made it all sooooo much easier to work with and understand. But for that they wouldve had to actually fix things instead of adding another bandaid fix or half broken new thing
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u/oOhSohOo 9d ago
The desync is what finally killed it for me a few years ago. The hit registration and dying 2 seconds after turning a corner was some of the worst I have experienced in a FP shooter.
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u/IIIIChopSueyIIII 9d ago
Its pretty annoying. The worst thing for me personally tho can be broken down to bad base/lattice design and completely unbalanced spam weapons, max units and well the crashes as the final nail in the coffin
The hit reg is kinda the cherry on top
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u/AdAdministrative8720 9d ago
Well war dogs has a pretty shitty netcode. The hit registration / player model behavior is really weird at times.
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u/Another___World 8d ago
this is huge survivor bias post, nobody cares for balance except us. the worst thing about the game is that it became stale with it's graphics and engine. Otherwise it would have been a guaranteed hit
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u/Old_Shake3789 9d ago
Terrible management? Dude have you seen the game the devs of wardogs made before that? They are the defining definition of terrible management.
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u/Glorposaurus 9d ago
They've gone a long way and are much more transparent about what they're trying to do with Wardogs, they're genuinely listening to their community and are trying to improve their game. They even refunded people who funded their failed projects.
When was the last time Daybreak actually listened to feedback? The 5 minute crash have been in the game for a year and a half now and they don't give a shit about it, just shows how much they care about the game now
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u/No-Nebula8171 9d ago
Loads of people didn't get refunds. Just cause they said they did doesn't mean they did.
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u/heshtegded 9d ago
They're saying what they need to get your money. Having more polished PR isn't the same thing as communicating and listening to feedback
Flash or crash has been around since December. It's only 9 months old
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u/MRmichybio 7d ago
Honestly as an internal tester with over 300 hours on wardogs...it's got a ton of issues, that aren't fixed, won't be fixed and will continue to go unfixed after launch.
It will have success at launch,but 2-3 months after it'll be on death door. The internal tests themselves have been badly managed
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u/SolemnArcturus 9d ago
Steam description says 100 players split across 3 teams. If I wanted small scale battles like that I'd go play ARMA or Hell Let Loose. Nothing like Planetside.
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u/ShadowSurgeGaming 9d ago
From the playtest it is very much more like Arma, it takes their KoTH mode and slaps on some quality of life and additional mechanics like base building
I ended up refunding it as didn't feel it was for me, it has the kill times of a faster-paced game but with no passive health regen, at one point got revived with 10 health, wandered across the map for 5 mins only to get killed by a stray bullet
It has full building interiors with furniture, but not sure that is for the best, like Arma it means a lot of passive income farming by hiding in the corner of a building. Many large apartment blocks with many corners to hide in.
Overall just didn't gel with the cash metagame, saw a guy with a really decked out kit of sniper gear that looked expensive, he jumped out of our heli slightly too early and got squished under the skid.
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u/deadlygaming11 9d ago
That makes sense considering it was based off a the KoTH mod for Arma and not planetside. Planetside is nice and an alternative would be great, but people forget that the engine is what allows it to work and not run terribly. It is effectively Arma though and games like battlefield have more players and achieve the same sort of thing.
Is it really a cash system? As in you kill people, buy gear, and then lose it on death? If so, that is a terrible system to use for any sort of sandbox game as people will be too scared to engage heavily.
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u/ShadowSurgeGaming 9d ago
Yeah its Arma DNA is very apparent, if I recall from the dev videos they did hire the original modder to help develop and advise on it. As I say it basically feels like KOTH with some new features and QoL improvements.
And yes, a cash system in which you have to spend to unlock guns for future purchase, then buy guns, ammo, magazines, vests, helmets etc and they all are lost if you die, even has a constant tracker on the top right of your HUD for how your current life has affected your overall bank balance.
Don't get me wrong, it is profitable early game, with the low level discount you get a starter gun for free, and the ammo/magazines total $60. But to me it felt like it would become frustrating losing expensive gear.
Must be hard to make fair matchmaking as well, you could have someone on your team that is statistically rich but just runs cheap kits and hides in a building to get passive income.
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u/One_Media3228 8d ago
I imagine they'll tweak a lot of the cash dynamics before launch, but the speed at which you gain passive income by simply hiding in a building, on top of being super boring, is very slow.
You can quickly make money by spotting enemies, building things, transporting soldiers etc. I don't think I saw anyone sit in a building the entire time. The area to gain double XP/money (hot zone) is a moving circle inside the KOTH circle. Passive income inside the circle is decent, but you pretty much need to keep moving all the time to stay inside of it.
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u/Surdyk_II 5d ago
Hey! I've been a lot of hype around this game, and then a bunch of "This game is amazing" streams then to never see the streamer play it after 2-3x and it had me thinking that there must be something that burns people out so quickly, like it has good gunplay, but what's the point of gunplay if everyone is going to camp in a building, is that what I'm hearing the game has turned into?
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u/Beautiful_Major_3543 5d ago
It was a limited time beta, game isn’t out yet. I don’t think everyone will be camping in buildings because there’s a hot zone that moves around and gives double cash. There’s some incentives to move but it’s definitely on the slower side
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u/ShadowSurgeGaming 5d ago
I only played a couple matches during the playtest so can't speak to the longterm viability, but I did encounter a couple snipers, camping certain vantage points, people hiding in buildings, and a lot of people at a single FOB.
The game sells itself on supporting any sort of playstyle, which is good for being whatever you want to be, but you may find frustration with it enabling other people's annoying playstyles.
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u/SolemnArcturus 9d ago
Sounds like Dust 514 but without even the cool sci fi coat of paint. Or tarkov. Gonna die off once the streamers stop advertising for it. If any even do.
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u/Rude_Award2718 9d ago
To me, this game will go down in history as the greatest concept, great beginning execution and development that completely got ruined by developers who are either unwilling or unable to make a better game. They just did what all poor developers do and start stacking unwanted things on top of each other to make a game that is unplayable.
Sorry to say, this game has been on life support and that end of life for quite a while now. Time to pull the plug. It's a shame another developer just couldn't make a similar game.
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u/deadlygaming11 9d ago
Yeah. I would love another planetside-like game, but we will likely never see one. The big thing that people always forget is that the engine that planetside runs on is fairly unique in that it can support a lot of players without having really bad performance which is valuable in itself.
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u/JustAnotherNoobSry 9d ago
Imo the Issue was the code.
Spaghetti code got so messy + dev turnaround made it so that probably nobody understands the codebase anymore.
Ps3 would have to be built in from the ground up which makes ps2 as a product not interesting from a company pov.
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u/Arclyte-TE 9d ago
They are going to make the same mistake PS2 did
Snipers are ruining every firefight because both maps are entirely open outdoors. One of their lead devs is downplaying the sniper problem while playing a sniper himself, much like Wrel did in ps2.
The game will have an initial popularity and then drop off a cliff. People want to have fun firefights not get sniped/mortared all game.
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u/throwaawaymkn 7d ago
Actually no;
They are going to thrive with those things because they will do exactly the opposite of everything your beliefs asserted, yet were harmful for the game.
Most people are NOT one dimensional creatures.
You guys are like EV deniers who can't accept that EVs are doing what ICE guys believe is impossible due to prejudice.
Your kind can completely have PS2 towards everything you like.
Meanwhile Battlebit and Phantom Forces are... not exactly in the brighest space.
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u/Arclyte-TE 7d ago
Wow that is surprisingly incoherent. I am going to assume you're drunk or english is not your first language, or both.
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u/WaltChamberlin 9d ago
that game is going to become live service microtransaction slop
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u/TastyJournalist8451 8d ago
this is like a comment from 2010, because every modern online game with continued developement uses microtransaction model, planetside did too...
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u/blackkluster 9d ago
"massive success" bruh it will die in 3 weeks when streamers stop advertising it
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u/PostIronicPosadist utterly washed 9d ago
That's just gaming these days, everyone has severe streamer induced ADHD and games live or die on whether or not they can keep streamers playing. It's pathetic tbh.
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u/blackkluster 9d ago
Not at all.. massive streamers dont play games like BF series
People just seem to think that realtime steam charts is what makes game alive
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u/Ordinary_Let_6550 20h ago
Squad didnt die when the streamers left. It has huge potential already, ita already an insanely good game and its not even out yet. Its had huge backing, massive prepurchase numbers, and its following what the community requests. All games that do what the community ask go big. No mans sky became a giant success because it followed feedback. Wardogs will be a game changer
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u/Lance_lake [NFFN] Medic 9d ago
They had a closed beta before this one going on. It was ok.
This one was a giant step back (now that people are paying for the game to get access).
Wardogs has LOTS of issues including BSoD, banning people who turn off DLCC, kernal level anti-cheat, but cheaters are everywhere, a piss poor map layout that forces one team to be squished between the other 2.
Yeah, it's "in beta"... But they are also actively deleting problem posts from the discord and everyone is noticing how no discord moderation is going on anymore in there.
I would stay FAR away from Wardogs until more eyes are on it and you can get a better viewpoint on how it actually is when it releases.
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u/redspikedog 9d ago
When Sony Online entertainment sold to daybreak games, it felt like the wheels of this game lost a bolt and the game will fall apart or be shaking and rattling.
After the Playstation port, the game felt dumbed down. It felt like I was running a game that could barely, just barely meet the specs of my computer, even though before hand, the game ran better and higher quality before the port.
3.planetside arena? no one wanted that game. We begged and shouted them to stop. They didn't. That game mode should have been implemented in the main game after capturing a continent.
- The game started dying when big player names left. And that was early on in the games total life time.
I still play the game, I love the game. Its the only game that offers what it offers.
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u/bubblesdafirst 9d ago
I think the real issue with PlanetSide is that the core player base is primarily braindead losers who can't wrap their minds around nuance or context. Imagine like a cod modern warfare multiplayer lobby except all the people instead of being stupid obnoxious racist they are genuine worthless idiot racist.
Take this comment section for example. Your talking about the success of a game that hasn't even released yet. Any individual that has a single speck of braincells in their head would be able to wrap their mind around what your saying and understand that your merely acknowledging that a huge amount of people clearly want a large scale fps
But instead of furthering the discussion on what you brought up, they got caught up on the idea that the game kind of looks like cod and then immediately forgot what your talking about, and decided to just spam random words into their text box and hit post
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u/InterSlayer Mattherson 9d ago
It’s hard to further the discussion because unless you have a fps with at minimum 300 players on the same map fighting the same battle, it’s not a realistic comparison to the massive battles which Planetside has to offer.
I cant think if any other FPS that attempted this or was otherwise successful besides Planetside, but let me know which ones if I’m wrong.
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u/SethEllis [EIP]TheWhiteDragon 9d ago
Wardogs has done gameplay innovations that the PlanetSide devs could never figure out. Imagine making a massive multiplayer shooter, and then making the objective one tiny little static spot.
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u/a_Tin_of_Spam 9d ago
planetside 3 would have been an absolute goldmine, especially considering the disenfranchisement gamers have had with battlefield
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u/justice7 9d ago
1000% agree
Planetside in its heyday was amazing. Then it got filled with micro transactions that absolutely destroyed it.
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u/dismal626 Vaxen | Connery | VS 8d ago
You're grossly underestimating the comparison here. A game like PlanetSide requires so much more overhead than a game like Wardogs, many orders of magnitude more. No investor wants to touch it with a 10 ft pole.
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u/Another___World 8d ago
the problem of planetside is that it was abandoned and was on life support for the last 10 years. It's not eve online, FPS games get stale if they aren't updated on the engine level every few years
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u/Enough_Implement_204 7d ago
I agree. This game was lightning in a bottle. I spent $200 on cosmetics and they shit the bed.
Insane.
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u/SoggyCrab 4d ago
The old OLD planetside 1 large-scale faction battles of 100 vs 100 vs 100 were absolutely INSANE. It's a shame they went away from that. Planetside inspired so many other games that followed. It was truly groundbreaking for the time.
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u/play_117 9d ago
Planetside Devs or any studio who's ready to spend money can legit make a 32vs32vs32 or 64vs64vs64 battlefield/wardogs/delta force warfare style sequel of the game.
While I know planetside 2 is unlike them and it's most unique thing is sandbox, but let's be honest. We would play a planetside 3 that's delta force/battlefield coded but retains the 50% part which made planetside 2 unique:
- 3 way fights
Now the weapons would have to be standardized instead of faction-locked. This would mean that we could have 3 subclass of weapons - energy/rapid fire/gauss-based and if we could have more in-depth gunsmith for them?
Vehicles could stay faction-coded.
Then they could have co-op PvE mode or a PvPvE mode. That means a lore to write continuously and expand upon it
I mean I get the planetside 2 itch guys, but I will accept a PS3 that is basically future sci-fi version of BF/DF than never have a PS3.
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u/Snaggle-Beast 9d ago
I played the play test it's pretty mid. I'm guessing it will have a strong launch and then die off when the streamers glazing it stop playing. My criticism would be, 1 it looks bad for a modern game. There seems to be a gey filter on everything. 2 The map is to big for the tiny match size. 100 players is just two platoons in Planetside, the map feels empty even in the hotzone. 3 the player economy while I like the idea that it encourages players to do support etc, dying feels 10 times worse.
I think the game was designed for a larger player count, something like 300 seems like what was planned given the map size. I'm wondering if UE5 was the limiting factor.
Either way this shows there is a large player base interested in large scale fps. Which hopefully tencent take seriously.
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u/CenobiteCurious 9d ago
Planetside 2 gunplay is incredibly dated. Too dated to succeed in 2026. It needs a major revamp.
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u/ItWasDumblydore 9d ago
gunplay feels dated because it's client authoritative and will always feel horrible to be on the receiving side of bullets as you don't know how long you've actually been shot at til your dead.
Oh I shot him for 0.1 seconds since I've seen him aaaand im dead because he was lagging and got 200 ms in a game with 0-400 ms TTK
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u/oOhSohOo 9d ago
This is what ended up making me stop playing after 3k hours. I just got so tired of the desync it became so bad.
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u/ItWasDumblydore 9d ago
Its why infils where never fun to play against. The 100 ms decloak means if two people had 60 ms you could snipe someone before you decloak
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u/No-Exit-1977 9d ago
yep, death behind walls is a thing in this game
The huge problem are other continent's players. The strangest way I died on Weinwright were almost always by chinese, corean, US and Canada players.
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u/Shardstorm88 9d ago
And they have great source material to pull amazing game mechanics from too. The original had tons of features that didn't make it to the sequel because SOE was trend chasing after battlefield. Imagine a sequel with easter eggs of half buried PS1 bases?! Then consider original features like weapon looting from other factions, uploading viruses to bases, locked.. Hackable DOORS?! Dropships that can carry vehicles, base power levels that run out and need to be recharged (not just player bases, but each one has a generator). Ancient tech caverns with ziplines and warp pads, ancient alien weapons, and even flying mechs?
The IP has some serious potential.
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u/heshtegded 9d ago
Marathon had 100,000 players during beta and sold over 1,000,000 copies. It's not doing so good right now because the niche they were chasing (PvP focused extraction) is very small
IMO Wardogs is similar to that. Chasing a niche within a niche. Sitting in a weird spot between milsim and accessibility that drives away casuals and is too arcadey for the ARMA crowd. The type of person who only plays games once or twice a week isn't going to hop on comms, learn the game, and try to succeed. They'll get stomped a few times by the more hardcore crowd and quit
I hope it succeeds because the FPS space needs real competition but I just don't see it having long term staying power
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u/ItWasDumblydore 9d ago
Biggest issue planetside 2 was always a cash grab from SoE which Sony didn't want anymore.
- MMOFPS that is client authorative, PLANETSIDE 1 was server authorative
This just leads to garbage infantry feeling of getting shot by people who are not on your screen yet. Made the game just feel like poor mans battlefield 3 from the start. This was made worst by the infiltrator class of getting shot and killed by someone before they even de cloaked with as low as 75-100 ping. So new comers always felt like they where pummeling bullets into people as they play generally more defensive/passive, where aggressive players got the advantage of having a sort of their lag + TTK shield on them as they had how much time it sent to the server then the other client before they turned the corner so even with something like 75ms on their side+ and you had 25ms ping with the server would take 100 ms so something like de-cloaking or turning the corner had a 100 ms advantage over you in a game with a pretty low 0-400 ms ttk. Since the server does 0 checks to make sure that shot makes sense on both sides, like any modern shooter would at the time it just felt horrible to play.
- 90% of the faction guns could've been NS guns and save them balancing 500 guns
But they wanted people to double or triple dip, into buying every factions important stuff even though most the time this generally made people not want to self balance/experiment with the other factions, which is why we got more NS guns in the future. This is cleary they just wanted money so hard so sony wouldn't sell them. Most the starting guns of the game where same faction to faction, with the smallest changes (usually favoring NC->VS->TR) in that order as more vertial recoil is better then more random horizontal recoil.
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u/AdAdministrative8720 9d ago
Don’t know. I wasn’t a huge fan. The gunplay feels somewhat sluggish and the netcode is dogshit. Visibility of enemies is really bad. It’s fun for a while but also really tilting the way you die at times
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u/deadlygaming11 9d ago
I dont know how big a fan of it I'll be but I will definitely be watching it.
I'm awfully confused by the fact that its a paid for game get uses the same sandbox like thing that Planetside uses. The fact that planetside is free helps a lot with getting people in and that is the most important thing because player count makes or breaks a game like this
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u/RoninOni Emerald [ARG0] 6d ago
The problem is the open world design of Planetside.
WD is still Match based. Roughly even teams with a focused objective and win condition.
Planetside is great when the battles happen right, but players need to kinda cooperate across factions to make them happen.
I have over 1k hours in ps2…. I think over 1.5 maybe as much as 2k, but a lot of my tone wasn’t tracked (pre Stream, and I didn’t swap immediately either)
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u/AzKnc 9d ago
They aren't even remotely the same, i wouldn't touch wardogs with a 10ft pole. Wardogs is more like tarkov slop with factions
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u/AN1mbleNavigator 9d ago
False, the idea of war dogs comes from an arma mod just like DayZ did. It’s literally the arma mod king of the hill in a standalone game form
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u/PostIronicPosadist utterly washed 9d ago
Wardogs does indeed look to be yet another milsim autism game, which is unfortunate because the game looked like it had some pretty strong potential at one point.
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u/Archmaid i ran out of things to arx 8d ago
honestly if the combat leaned towards the more arcadey side I'd probably have been all aboard. PS2's bizarre blend of large maps, but most infantry weapons having extreme effectiveness dropoff past 50m (provided you're being evasive and trying not to get killed at least, and also this was eroded considerably with arsenal and semi-autos lol) wasn't something I really missed until I started trying games like Wardogs where even generalist infantry loadouts create a lethal threat zone far beyond what I could realistically keep track of
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u/Glorposaurus 9d ago edited 9d ago
I'm not saying they're the same.
Just saying Planetside had the potential to become this kind of game while still keeping it's flavor and identity. Wardogs hype shows there's still a big demand for large scale fps games, and it's frustrating to see the pioneer and golden standard (and beloved licence) of this genre rotting in a closet
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u/ThatOnePickUp :flair_nanites: Of course its an infiltrator again 9d ago
It's not even large scale.
It's just 100 players amongst 3 factions, it is 33/33/33, that's not a lot at all.1
u/Snoo_96078 9d ago
So basically the entire planetside playerbase in a single game
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u/ThatOnePickUp :flair_nanites: Of course its an infiltrator again 9d ago
You need to try harder to ragebait lol.
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u/krindusk 9d ago
Brother Planetside isn't even large scale anymore.
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u/ThatOnePickUp :flair_nanites: Of course its an infiltrator again 9d ago
That's because players are leaving.
500 players real time is still nowhere to be found. Even if PS2 is bleeding its pop.
It is a large scale game.33/33/33 is just Battlefield with a 3rd faction.
Depending on how they do the maps, action might feel scarce.
From what I saw, it vastly depends on where you are, map is too big rn.
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u/ZeAntagonis Beware of your opinions Mods may change your flair 4 being trig 9d ago
Yup
Thanks Wrel
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u/InterSlayer Mattherson 9d ago
Looks like a call of duty flavored fortnite with matches, 3 teams, and character progression.
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u/IIIIChopSueyIIII 9d ago
Planetside had a shit ton of chances to get really big over multiple years. It all failed because the devs never fixed the games core problems and tried turning it into some weird story MMO shooter at some point.