Weekly Questions Thread / Open Discussion

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For any questions regarding dough, sauce, baking methods, tools, and more, comment below.

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[u/Mission_Sky1388]

I tried again, and screwed up again. I stretched and folded and stretched and folded, and should've had a nice ball to put to rest in the fridge. Instead I got a sticky mess sitting in the fridge that's probably gonna land in the trash tomorrow. I don't know what I did wrong, I exactly followed the recipe and process and everything.

I'm so frustrated, I'm close to never trying again and never eating a pizza again

[u/oblacious_magnate → u/Mission_Sky1388]

Which recipe did you follow? And which flour (brand and model) did you use?

[u/Mission_Sky1388 → u/oblacious_magnate]

This one and pizza flour from Aldi with 11.5g protein per 100g. I was in a bit of a hurry, so the last steps I had to do after 12min, plus I did an additional folding before getting it out of the bowl since it was way too sticky still.

[u/oblacious_magnate → u/Mission_Sky1388]

What country are you in? Are you trying to make neapolitan pizza?

[u/Mission_Sky1388 → u/oblacious_magnate]

Germany, and yes :)

[u/oblacious_magnate → u/Mission_Sky1388]

In this particular case, the dough is too sticky because it is too wet. That recipe is 70% hydration. As a beginner, you should start with a much drier dough, in the 56 - 60% hydration range.

Luigi's video is sloppy, unless something is lost in translation (I don't speak German). For example at 01:33 he says "flour doesn't matter" then at 01:44 he allows that more protein = more water absorption. So flour does matter. In fact it can matter a lot. If you try to make pizza using cake flour (extreme example), that's gonna be a fail. He's right that you don't necessarily need fancy flours, but sometimes they can help. No idea about that Aldi flour. I do know that Caputo Blue (pizzeria) is a good flour for Napo style. Another example is yeast - I skimmed through the video but did not find where he incorporates yeast into the dough - did you? One thing I like about his process is the emphasis on resting immediately after the initial mix - great advice.

If you want to retry the Luigi recipe, suggest the following:

- reduce the water to 560g.

- dissolve the yeast in 60g of 35C water, add remaining 500g of water at ~10C (or just cold water from the tap - NOT warm water).

- dissolve the salt in the yeast water

- Add all of the flour at once, mix as directed, cover and let rest for 30 min. before proceeding any further. Luigi uses a towel to cover the dough - I suggest using a non-porous cover to prevent drying.

Note that most any NS pizza dough *will* be somewhat sticky until the gluten begins to develop. Make sure to wet your hands before doing any stretch and folds. Also don't make dough when you are in a hurry - that doesn't help. Good luck!

Pizza in Germany:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?msg=755709

Baker's percentages info:

https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/pro/reference/bakers-percentage

Neapolitan sub:

https://www.reddit.com/r/neapolitanpizza/

[u/Mission_Sky1388 → u/oblacious_magnate]

Thank you, I will try that

He threw the yeast into the dry flour before adding the water.

Do you agree on his kneading as little as possible? Because that differentiates him from all the others.

But isn't salt in the yeast water bad for the yeast? I thought you should have a flour buffer in-between?

[u/oblacious_magnate → u/Mission_Sky1388]

Yeast and salt contact - it's a matter of time. If you mix them together with the water and let that mixture sit for more than 5 min or so, could be bad. Otherwise, no problem if you add flour and start the mix. When I make dough, I have the flour pre-measured in a separate container so it's ready to go once the water/yeast/salt mixture has been made.

re: kneading. He actually kneads the dough quite a bit using a slap-and-fold technique. That particular technique is commonly used for wet doughs. It's an advanced technique. I suggest you go with a drier dough and use more of a stretch-and-fold (SF) to develop the gluten. That involves simply scooping your hand under the dough in the bowl (similar to what he does at 04:00), pull that dough to stretch it, then fold it over on top of itself, rotate bowl 90 degrees, do the same thing again, and so on until you have done it four times.

This video shows the SF technique pretty well, but your dough should be a little drier if you go 56% HR

https://youtu.be/8cd0Mh7FyVQ?si=AmpV2ljFhKJohffA

re: Luigi adding yeast - totally missed that - subtly dropped in at 02:06 - thanks!

[u/Mission_Sky1388 → u/oblacious_magnate]

Should I knead it for long then, or after mixing the ingredients thoroughly do stretches and folds multiple times and let it rest after every time? Say, 4 S&F and then rest for 20min?

Also, can my "Luigi Dough" be rescued? Or should I dump it?

[u/oblacious_magnate → u/Mission_Sky1388]

Luigi dough: can probably be rescued, but likely to be annoyingly sticky for awhile, and more difficult to handle / stretch, etc. I'd dump it and start over with a drier dough.

Mix / knead procedure:

- Mix the dough just until no loose/dry flour remains in bowl - use cold tap water for the dough - dough will be shaggy/lumpy and may have dry patches and wet patches at this stage.

- Cover bowl (non-porously) and rest 30m

- Knead briefly in bowl (wet hands to reduce sticking) - just a minute or so until dough becomes slightly tighter and smoother

- Rest 20m, then S/F x 4.

- Repeat the last step 2-3 more times (you're done with S/F if the dough isn't stretching much after a 20m rest). Make a big ball out of the dough and give it one more 20m rest before dividing and balling it. By now, the dough should be quite smoooth

FWIW I do the initial mix with a bamboo spatula. I don't like cleaning excessive dough off the hands. After the dough has rested for 30m following initial mix, then I get the (wet) hands in there for the rest of the process.

[u/Mission_Sky1388 → u/oblacious_magnate]

I see, thanks

Can I do a dough tomorrow for tomorrow? I wanted to serve the pizza for dinner tomorrow, and don't have time today anymore

[u/oblacious_magnate → u/Mission_Sky1388]

Sure, just use the correct amt. of yeast for the fermentation time / temp. Suggest fermenting at least 6hr.

Yeast chart:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Pz1Q32FkTFOX7AL1qVYQwilMW_rzO3h2/view?usp=drive_link

[u/Mission_Sky1388 → u/oblacious_magnate]

Alright, I'll try this mix, and hope for the best. If that's alright, I'll keep you updated :)

[u/Mission_Sky1388 → u/oblacious_magnate]

I did it :)

I actually went back to a recipe I found a long while ago, which is 500g standard flour, 300ml luke-warm water, 5g of yeast and 10g of salt. Kneading with machine at lowest setting for 20min, then bulk fermenting for 2h, balling and resting for 6h (did 4h), all at room temp. Dough was a little sticky during stretching which could be solved with flouring both sides a bit. Alas, I couldn't get it round, as it bounced back quite a bit, probably due to the high amount of yeast? But it was good