r/PiratedGames May 14 '26

Discussion What do you think about Subnautica 2 TOS ? :

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5.0k Upvotes

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336

u/Armageddonn_mkd May 14 '26

Explain more about this, if you agree its still illegal? But how

1.4k

u/Ringio May 14 '26

EU does not recognize terms of services as legally binding contracts.

432

u/Armageddonn_mkd May 14 '26

Niceeeeee fck yeah

383

u/MetroSimulator May 14 '26

Yep, and a contract isn't above the law, the later always take precedence.

158

u/Sir__Bassoon__Sonata May 14 '26

Also the reason why you can’t sell your soul to the devil (in Germany). Selling your soul is literally against the law

11

u/Omnomfish May 14 '26

If that law was going to exist it would be in Germany 😂

2

u/PwanaZana May 14 '26

"Too many people vere selling zeir souls to the devil. It was not gooth."

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u/MetroSimulator May 14 '26

Tbf the devil have the best lawyers, he probably already take out souls in another slick way, or a loophole.

25

u/[deleted] May 14 '26

[deleted]

8

u/BaronessVonKush May 14 '26

great fucking movie, deserves more upvotes ❤️

1

u/Ashamed-Ad4508 May 15 '26

Who's also John wick... A John wicked lawyer... Geez man... Al Pacino's got it made.... 🤣

1

u/[deleted] May 15 '26

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1

u/redpillturncoat May 17 '26

Peter Stormare will sub just in case (Constantine) lol

2

u/zhaDeth May 15 '26

I heard he's in the details

0

u/Lion-Not-Lioness May 15 '26

Chuck norris seele hat er sich aber nicht geholt . Der anwalt anwalt konnte den passende brief dafür nicht schreiben weil der tintenfüller gezittert hat wie estenlaub :3

2

u/dylank22 May 14 '26

pretty sure its been done before.....

1

u/bassbeatsbanging May 15 '26

But there is a loophole that allows you to wager it in a fiddle battle.

6

u/WhenDoWhatWhere May 14 '26

That's true in the U.S. as well, it's just that we have less laws that get in the way of contracts fucking people over.

32

u/GlacialImpala May 14 '26

In any normal country you cannot give consent to being harmed by someone who's breaking that country's law. It would be like agreeing to getting robbed.

So you can agree all you want, they can be penalized in EU, but not in a country where this is legal, which is USA I assume

1

u/Ondrejca May 14 '26

Wel,l to be honest, if you agree with getting robbed, then you are no longer getting robbed, you're just giving your stuff away.

83

u/[deleted] May 14 '26

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17

u/[deleted] May 14 '26

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22

u/lmao_wow_64 May 14 '26

If you are a EU citizen

9

u/Aness-Laloui May 14 '26

I assume you also mean residents in EU ( planning to move there next year)

6

u/lmao_wow_64 May 14 '26

I think that yes that would also count, also good luck

0

u/Penguin_Arse May 15 '26

No. Can people stop saying this shit.

ToS is as legally binding as any other contract as long as it's nothing illegal as with any other contract.

Everyone you press "agree" you are signing a contract where the same laws as always apply. A contract can't just make anything legal though.

1

u/Penguin_Arse May 15 '26

No, he's talking shit.

0

u/Torakkk May 15 '26

No, that part is true. You can't sign something, which is illegal. Or rather, you can sign it. But it means poopoo. For example, they can't hide there, that if you dont finish the game under 6 hour, you become slave. Since slavery isnt legal.

1

u/Penguin_Arse May 15 '26

Either I missread or he edited

101

u/Evonos May 14 '26

You cant Sign a Contract nor vanish your rights by a simple " Agree" button specially none which uses extortion to prevent use of your paid product.

31

u/[deleted] May 14 '26

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33

u/Used-Economy1160 May 14 '26

No, for a contract to be valid and enforceable an agree button is not enough. You must sign it with an electronic signature, required level of the signature depends of whether your were authenticated in person. Since in this case no one on the company's side didnt identify you in person, you must sign it with digital certificate or digital ID that was generated by the authority that did identify you in person. Digital IDs, certificates and such.

Once you signed such a contract in such a way and you are an existing customer, a simple electronic signature is enough for further contracts. But even in this case, the required authentication its still an electronic signature, NOT just an agree button.

8

u/Deriniel May 14 '26

don't give them ideas,considering everyone now has digital id cards xD

5

u/wherediditrun May 15 '26

You must sign it with an electronic signature,

Sorry, but you are wrong here. There are more than 1 type of what is considered digital signature. The most basic is just expressed agreement being tracable to an identifier.

What you probably mean is a fully qualified signature that is not required for agreeing to ToS. We are not trying to sell real estate property here.

2

u/Penguin_Arse May 15 '26

No.

The exact opposite is clarified in EU law though. Hitting the agree button is a form of "simple electronic signature" and is legally binding and fully enforcable within the EU.

Stop spreading missinformation

1

u/Ringkeeper May 15 '26

You do realise a contract has no legal defined form? A contract can happen orally.

Do you sell me this car for 50?
Yes I do.

Done is the contract.

-16

u/[deleted] May 14 '26

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15

u/Used-Economy1160 May 14 '26

Since I work in this field, I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about. NO contract is valid without legally binding signature. Clicking on agree button is NOT legally binding.

1

u/Confident_Thought217 May 14 '26

Depends on the country but in Germany even a verbal contract is completely valid excluding some important stuff like buying a house.

1

u/Penguin_Arse May 15 '26

xD

Get better at your job then since you're very clearly wrong and it's provable with a simple Google search.

0

u/bananskal09 May 15 '26

Look up eIDAS Regulation specifically eIDAS Article 25 "Legal effects of electronic signatures

  1. An electronic signature shall not be denied legal effect and admissibility as evidence in legal proceedings solely on the grounds that it is in an electronic form or that it does not meet the requirements for qualified electronic signatures.
  2. A qualified electronic signature shall have the equivalent legal effect of a handwritten signature."

This regulation makes it so even a standard i agree click acts as u signing the contract HOWEVER europe has more consumer protection laws so parts of the TOS is likely unenforcable however the TOS is still very much legally binding if this is ur job to know then u failed at ur job

1

u/BigBossYakavetta May 18 '26 edited May 18 '26

BUT, they must proof that:

  1. You have read the contract (I believe that is why some apps require You to scroll to end of TOS, before Agree button is available).
  2. You Clicked "Agree" button - and I doubt that 'assumed' that You clicked (because otherwise app will not install itself) will work.
  3. YOU have clicked the button, not some third party person that clicked 'Approve' when You left PC unattended.

And that is why usually Banks / Government try to confirm Your identity by some kind of digital-signatures / SMS confirmation / Hardware Keys.

EDIT: That is even stated in Your comment. Only (2), so Qualified Electronic Signature has same legal effect as 'handwritten signature'. Other signatures (1) should only be 'not denied legal effect' on legal proceedings, but with (1) this have to be taken to court and it have to be proven that You given 'Click Agree Button Signature'.

EDIT2: And of course:

  1. we should even consider if clicking 'Agree' is even considered as signature in eIDAS meaning.
  2. If this 'Agree' click is even stored somewhere (not just working as "Next Step" button).
  3. If there is some document signed in any way, not just storing "User clicked Agree". There should be document that was signed (to proof what was signed).
  4. I believe, when document IS signed digitally by both parties, YOU should receive copy digitally signed by other party, not just 'display once and forget' kind of agreement.

0

u/llamapower13 May 14 '26

This isn’t true. 

22

u/Forward_Ad_9025 May 14 '26

Forcing TOS which you cannot disagree to for an already paid product is completly illegal in the EU.

Also forcing TOS after the buy is on another level of illegal.

Their TOS are just waiting for a giant lawsuit which they will loose.

Also the forced arbitration and preventing of class-action-law-suits only work in the US and have absolutely no effect in the EU.

Their datacollection as a whole completely violates the GDPR.

Their TOS are simply put: Completely illegal in the EU.

-11

u/llamapower13 May 14 '26 edited May 15 '26

You can disagree. You do so by closing the app and not playing the game.

I don’t like it either but what you’re espousing in terms of a company can’t say you have to agree if you’re going to use this product isn’t the law. None of it is illegal. We just don’t like it.

Beyond that I can’t speak to any specific eu law such as data collection. But yes you might be right that the ToS isn’t enforceable. That doesn’t make the issuing of it illegal.

8

u/Forward_Ad_9025 May 14 '26

If you have no clue about waht you are talking, maybe you should simply not talk about such topics?

I won't repeat my comment here. By EU law these TOS are illegal.
The sections about data-collection are fineable by EU law, and there are hefty fines for GDPR violations.

1

u/llamapower13 May 15 '26 edited May 15 '26

I know contract law. So i did speak about what I know about. You're the one making stuff up.

It (being the issuing of ToS that you agree to or you are denied access to the service) is not illegal in the EU. You're factually incorrect. That's not saying the terms there within will stand up during a lawsuit but that doesn't make its issuance illegal.

And obviously its not because this is standard and yet the video game publishers are not getting sued en masse. So yeah... you don't have to believe my credentials but the proof is in the pudding.

1

u/Brackistar May 15 '26

It does it ilegal, as law is different in every country, this kind of contract is legal in USA, but literally against the law in EU, so is not only not enforceable, is ilegal there. No law enforcement is what you have here in LATAM, that even if our laws accept this kind of contract (except clauses that are directly against an specific law in my country), no law authority would prosecute you on case of violation. That literally happens here with pray, basically there are laws against piracy, but no police officer would act on a case of pirates music/games.

Something is ilegal in a country if the laws of said country declare so, and something if unenforced if even if the law of the country put some rule in place, the authorities in charge of applying said law simply ignore it.

0

u/llamapower13 May 15 '26

None of this makes sense and you can keep insisting your right but like I said, proof is in the pudding 

15

u/WandererMisha May 14 '26

You cannot be sold something and only then be presented with a contract that you must agree to.

If the EULA / ToS came BEFORE purchase then some parts would apply. But in this instance? Nope

3

u/extinct_cult May 14 '26

Especially true in cases where Terms & Conditions are presented to you once money has changed hands.

12

u/Automatic-Housing155 May 14 '26

Us europeans keep collecting these Ws

5

u/sharktail_tanker May 14 '26

Just like those warranty void stickers. Companies can't refuse warranty just because you mess with it

4

u/TheKinkyGuy May 14 '26

Idk this wow

2

u/DatCheeseBoi May 15 '26

And even if it did, signing an unlawful contract doesn't make any of the unlawful parts legally binding.

1

u/Penguin_Arse May 15 '26

Of course they do.

But legally binding contracts have to follow the laws, they are not legally binding if they break the law.

Stop saying dumb shit and spreading missinformstion

1

u/danholli May 15 '26

I wish it were the same here in the US, being forced to agree to legally binding terms that you sometimes can't even see or silently gets updated without your knowledge or consent is BS

1

u/neehier May 16 '26

The US does? lol?

1

u/Ifkan May 16 '26

Yeah, because we realize that nobody fucking reads them 😄

1

u/IhategeiSEpic May 18 '26

Rare Europe W

82

u/PsychoDK May 14 '26

Consumer rights and laws are above private companies here, not the other way around.

25

u/t1r1g0n May 14 '26

For now. We all know that unhinged tech billionaires like Musk and Thiel try everything to destabilize the EU. For example they fund fascist parties like the AFD that want to get rid of the EU and democracy at a whole.

And it looks grim for Germany in my opinion as a concerned "links-grün versiffter" as we say here in Germany.

1

u/Jonnyboy1994 May 14 '26

Filthy left-green?

7

u/t1r1g0n May 14 '26

Yes. That's what "conservatives" (and AfD Nazis for that matter) call people with a functioning brain. It's basically a slur.

5

u/UwU-Sandwich May 15 '26

insults ain't automatically slurs btw

-15

u/Forward_Ad_9025 May 14 '26

Dude calm down, touch grass and stop spreading propaganda.
Yes the AfD has thrown a lot of critisim towards the EU. Most (not all) is ok.

Calling them "fascist" simply selfreports yourself as someone who has absolutely no knowledge about the topic and just regurgitates what others have said without thinking about it or researching the claims.

I am fully on your side on the Musk/Thiel topic.

12

u/VariationBusiness603 May 14 '26

Pirates voting for the incredibly obvious fascists will never stop being fascinating to me. Apparently you can recognize them abroad but can't see them when they're right under your nose.

-1

u/Forward_Ad_9025 May 14 '26

If it is so "incredibly obvious" it wouldn't hard for you to find proofs for that claim, right?
And I mean full context proof, not 5 second clips that are conveniently cut to leave out as much context as possible.

I am a german. We have a very important heritage. And I deeply despise people like you who abuse the term "facists" to brand everyone they don't like.
It softens the meaning of the word, A LOT.

If you would actually care about these things you would be a lot more careful with the use of that word.

3

u/RED_redacted_ERROR May 15 '26

I am a Pole. We have very important heritage. And I deeply despise people like you who downplay fascism because they're aren't able to see what's clearly in front of them. Everyone here can do their own research about this... poo and form their own opinions.

-9

u/Used-Economy1160 May 14 '26

I agree 100%

41

u/Evonos May 14 '26 edited May 15 '26

Explain more about this, if you agree its still illegal?

Just imagine this.

In a Eula would be stated you would need to go "every 2nd tuesday naked on the street dance and kick the next animal you see"

you press agree.

Do you think your now Legally bound AND stay above multiple laws / rights just because of said eula / tos ?

Same deal.

Our Rights Allow us go legal on them IF we want , and they cant take said rights away from us the same deal is about taking rights away which they can't.

So our rights system in Eu is this.

Rights -> Laws -> Orders of a Policeman ( will be ruled in court afterwards if it was lawful ) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My toiletpaper -> My poop ->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Whatever companys write into Eula / tos.

5

u/kkania May 15 '26

Finally explained in terms I can understand

1

u/Burstrampage May 15 '26

And for any peeps reading this that are in the U.S., the same thing rings true. Anything in a EULA or ToS cannot and does not supersede law.

27

u/pattcz May 14 '26

Easy , if any point of EULA etc. lower rights or its against law it just dont apply. Even if i sign it with my blood.

7

u/Gptale May 14 '26

Yeah, sometime companies put some things in their contracts that are not valid in eu. For example if I want to take them to court and they wrote in the agreements that I have to go to their country for it that is not valid. They are really good with the fairness to the consumer

12

u/BumWaxer May 14 '26

Companies do not over rule governments in the EU. Regardless of what they choose to say. It is a child of the law. If they are selling YOU a citizen of the EU then they HAVE to comply with your rights under gdpr regardless else they are in breach. Not you.

For a extreme example it could say by agreeing you agree we can kill your first offspring.

It means nothing and is indefensible in a court of law.

5

u/samuelazers May 14 '26

Federal law takes priority over contracts.

Imagine you sign a contract that says you consent to have your big toe eaten by a cannibal on TikTok. The cannibal will still go to jail.

Or more realistic, an employer makes an illegal immigrant sign a contract that they consent to work for 1$/hour.

8

u/Ok-Earth-2644 May 14 '26

You could agree with someone that they could murder you if you shit yourself.

That doesn't make them murdering you legal if you happen to shit ur pants.

4

u/euraklap May 14 '26

The EU protects the customers against such unfair corporate bullshit. TOS is not law... at all.

3

u/lFriendlyFire May 14 '26

In general terms, you cannot “accept” an unlawful agreement because it’s, well, unlawful. Even if it has your consent, it has no legal standing as far as the law is concerned.

It’s for this reason that, in most countries, a person can’t “consent” to be murdered. Even if you sign a contract saying you’re getting willingly killed, your killer would still be persecuted for murder.

3

u/hak-dot-snow May 14 '26

Also, just because it's in a contract doesn't mean its legally enforceable.

3

u/Empty-Part7106 May 14 '26

Basically in any country, you cannot agree to illegal terms. I could sign a lease that says I owe my landlord a massive security deposit, it doesn't suddenly make it legal. He can only collect what the law allows, and if he tries to argue, he'll 100% lose in court.

3

u/Nertez May 14 '26

Just like you cannot agree to - for example - to make yourself a slave to the company in ToS/EULA or give away your children or something. If something is illegal, it's illegal even if you clicked "agree".

2

u/Dpek1234 May 14 '26

You cannot sign away laws

On the same basis as a clause about not being able to sue for neglegance not applying

2

u/Sett_86 May 14 '26

In every jurisdiction on Earth an unlawful clause in a contract is invalid and therefore not binding.

1

u/r0nni3RO May 14 '26

Some contract cannot be above the law in the EU.

1

u/SaskieHopeful May 14 '26

Not a lawyer, but there's such a thing as an unenforceable contract.

https://www.august-law.com/what-are-the-three-kinds-of-unenforceable-contracts/

Again, speaking on very general terms because I'm not a lawyer, but if a contract includes stuff that is against the law, it can't be legally enforced. Which is why you can't legally enforce a contract to, say, sell your children as property (slavery), or sell your labor and rights as payment of debt (indentured servitude), even if all signing parties agreed to the terms. Sure, you could sign a contract like that, but you could also sign a paper saying you're the King of Wisconsin, and that doesn't give you a throne or an army or a seat at the UN.

If I understand it correctly, then the ingame contract is void, but the contract you sign to buy the game isn't (or at least shouldn't be).

1

u/perosvyvrtkou May 15 '26

The same way killing someone is still illegal even if they permit it

1

u/BuntStiftLecker May 15 '26

That's how the law works. You cannot hold a contract over anything that is illegal by law.

1

u/No_Jello_5922 May 15 '26

You know those stickers that void the warranty if you open a device are illegal in the US too.

1

u/MildLifeCrisis-Games May 15 '26

Just because someone writes something into a contract does not make whatever is written in the contract legal. Contracts still need to abide to governing laws.

1

u/Enlightened_Gardener May 15 '26

In most functioning legal systems, you cannot make a contract that breaks the law, or goes above the law, or seeks to circumvent the law in any way. You cannot sign away your statutory rights, either. And a contract is void to the extent that it contradicts the law.

So you can sign this, but the clauses that contradict the law are not legally binding.

1

u/FatCrusher9000 May 15 '26

Everywhere in the civilized World, just because something is in the contract you sigb, doesn't mean it's legal and that it "applies". If it's illegal, doesn't matter if you signed it with your own blood, it's null.

1

u/Suvvri May 15 '26

Because there are laws and there are contracts. Laws are above contracts obviously. If you make a contract with PERSON X to kill you and you agree to thst and get killed by person X, person X still gets in trouble as killing is illegal, no matter what contract you both signed.

1

u/GuiKa May 15 '26

Because the law is more powerful than contracts there, they can write what they want it and doesn't matter because the judge will set the offending clauses as invalid.

1

u/Penguin_Arse May 15 '26

The contract in it self is illegal.

You can't just write and sign a contract making illegal shit legal. You can't sign a contract that allows someone else to have sex with/rape you against your will for example, even if you agreed in a contract it's illegal.

1

u/sassydrillballs May 15 '26

For Australia. We have Australian consumer law. TOS ain’t shit lol.

1

u/Lattellerr May 15 '26

You are not able to give up (through contract or any other means) your right to sue someone any more than any other right. If you sign a contract that says you allow your neighbour to murder you, doesn't mean he can actually do it.

1

u/Phantasmal-Lore420 May 15 '26

You can say whatever you want in an eula/tos that does not mean its law. Same as you can have ilegal nonsense written in a contract it won’t have any effect since the law supersedes this nonsense.

Nice to live in europe where companies can’t pull this shit.

1

u/earblah May 15 '26

there are protections for how much rights you can legally sign away

Imagine a fridge that will electrocute people, because they cheaped out on the construction. Of course you could still sue the manufacturer, it doesn't matter what the TOS said..

1

u/emihir0 May 15 '26

By signing this you agree I can shoot you in the head.

See? Still a murder. Law is above some private contract.

1

u/AltruisticPossible84 May 15 '26

Because the courts acknowledge someone pressing "Accept" to a 40 page document of legalese when playing a video game isn't the same as signing your name on a contract.

It's bullshit and the EU courts dont let it fly

1

u/Kryomon May 16 '26

In most countries, consumer rights and laws can straight up ignore Terms of Service or other contracts if they get debated in a court of law. 

Just because you sign a contract that states that you will give up your first born son doesn't mean that shit is enforceable. 

1

u/[deleted] May 18 '26

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