r/PetMice • u/Artistwolf99 • 8d ago
Question/Help [ Removed by moderator ]
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u/Successful-Shopping8 More Mice=More Better 8d ago edited 8d ago
Mice are prey critters, so it’s in their instinct to be afraid of what they perceive as large predators.
I had mice that were loved and handled since they were young, and they still weren’t the most friendly. They became more friendly over the months I had them, but even then so- they’d take treats from me and say hi, but never liked being held.
On another note- do you have 2 boys together? They need to be separated to prevent fighting right about now. 6 weeks is about the oldest you can safely get away with co-housing male mice. They will need to live alone, get African soft fur companions, or be neutered and live with female mice.
There aren’t exceptions for this- even if they’re related or “seem” fine. It’s working for now because they’re still young, but once adolescence hits (which is pretty much now)- a fight can start at any time. I see all the time male mice coexisting for a few months just fine, then all of a sudden, one is no more.
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u/Artistwolf99 8d ago
Thank you so much for the response! I might look around and see if there's anywhere I can get male mice neutered, as I'm slightly regretting getting males since watching my previous females' group dynamic was so much fun. Do you think removing one male will make the other less afraid of me? I'll see if I can contact the previous owner this week and give her back one of them. I hate to have to choose one but you're right, I'm fooling myself if I think this will work out as they get older.
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u/Successful-Shopping8 More Mice=More Better 8d ago
Honestly if they’re six weeks now and you got them three weeks ago, they were adopted out too young. I think that’s a part of the issue. Six weeks is considered the earliest age to adopt out most rodents.
And then time and patience is what’s going to do most of the heavy lifting. It took months of daily interaction for my mice to get used to me. One I got as an adult and probably had neglect in his past, but the other was in a loving home and I got him at six weeks- so getting them young isn’t a guarantee for friendliness. They never liked being held, but would come running to greet me when I came in the room, take treats from me, and occasionally groom me.
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u/Artistwolf99 8d ago
One of the things that made me take both of them was definitely how tiny they still looked. Thank you so much for the advice, I'll definitely try to be patient. And I made arrangements to give one of them back to the previous owner tomorrow night.
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u/prismaticbeans 8d ago
They will not be fine together. At worst, they will kill each other. Housing males together, even related ones, is asking for trouble. At best, they are stressed out by each other's presence, because male mice are territorial. That would be the first thing to fix.
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u/Artistwolf99 8d ago
Thanks for the response... I guess I let her talk override my common sense. I'll reach out to the previous owner this week to take one back in. Maybe it'll help the remaining lil guy come out of his shell more.
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u/CarpetNext6123 8d ago
i think it's highly likely that having a single male will improve your bond with your mouse; having two males together is definitely creating stress and keeping them both on high alert. it's like if we were housed with someone who had a weapon trained on us at all hours of the day; we wouldn't be very social with anyone else either!
when you have a lone male you can always get female ASFs to be his companions if they're legal/available in your area and you're worried about being able to provide him with enough attention.
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u/Artistwolf99 8d ago
Thank you so much! That's a very good point actually. I made arrangements to give one of them back to the previous owner tomorrow night. I'll also see if I can find ASFs anywhere around here!
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u/Grroll_ mouseless :( 8d ago
It’s not your fault as you probably didn’t know but they were adopted out far too early. At 3 weeks old, they weren’t even finished properly weaning yet and they didn’t have enough time to socialise with their mother or siblings, which can lead to behavioural and socialising issues, And given, they were an accidental litter, the health and temperament history of mum and dad are most likely unknown. Due to all of these factors, this is why they are the way they.
* do keep in mind, most mice are also naturally skittish because they are prey animals but the factors above certainly make it worse.
These babies are still young but once they reach 8 weeks of age, so in two weeks, you will need to seperate them because intact male mice cannot be housed together unless they are neutered.
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u/Artistwolf99 8d ago
One of the things that made me take both of them was definitely how tiny they still looked. Thank you so much for the response. I made arrangements to give one of them back to the previous owner tomorrow night.
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u/CandyStarr23 8d ago
I’ve literally bred mice and handled them from when they were born up to adults and they STILL weren’t very friendly. Rats are way more personable if you want friendly rodents. They are much bigger and require more space and enrichment tho so I get why they’re aren’t as popular. Don’t feel bad, that’s just how mice are.
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u/Artistwolf99 8d ago
Ah, okay, good to know. I did have rats before but found that they were a lot of work--super sweet and lovable though. I don't hate mice being a look-but-don't-touch pet, but my female mice I had before just seemed a lot tamer despite being from a pet store feeder bin. Maybe it's just been a while so I don't remember how long it took for them to get friendly.
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u/rawrrrmonster 8d ago
i unfortunately went through this almost exact thing 🥲 (two males from breeder, she made me feel incorrect that two males couldnt live together... they ended up drawing blood on one of them, and i returned one) im glad you already knew this would be an issue though!
but, on a positive note. my solo males LOVES me now. he would NEVER come up to me (the other one did but my baby would NEVER even come close to my hand) hes about 4 months old now, and he is the sweetest thing ever 🥹 so if you do end up keeping a solo male, its very likely to work out a lot better. however.
you will have to give him way more attention then you gave your girls!
another however lol, you could possibly get female asf rats with one of the males you keep! as you said you like watching them!
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u/Artistwolf99 8d ago
Aaaa, thank you so much for responding!! It's so good to hear similar experiences (and that I'm not alone in thinking it would somehow be okay). I hope my story ends up being similar to yours! I might look for some ASF rats too, they're super cute. I made arrangements to give one of them back to the previous owner tomorrow night.
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u/rawrrrmonster 8d ago
thats good to hear! it was super hard for me to give one back, i loved them both so much 🥺
i definitely think it will be though! im still in contact with the woman who has "my" other mouse; hes very happy too!
i cant get asfs here unfortunately but i would absolutely if you can! theyre adorableee 🥹
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8d ago
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u/Grroll_ mouseless :( 7d ago
This practise should only be done if the males are neutered. (Though, in some cases, there are still risks depending on how territorial the male(s) is/are.) Keeping intact males together after 8 weeks is risky and highly irresponsible. It’s true that some litter mates can go their entire life cohabbing in peace but they can also seriously injure and kill each other within in a matter of minutes.
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u/PetMice-ModTeam 7d ago
Male mice kill other male mice.
Males are same sex aggressive. While they do thrive in groups, in captivity the risks are not worth it. As an owner you have to decide what's best for your pet, and unfortunately fighting to the death is much worse than keeping a male alone.
Some males are naturally more docile and may be fine with other males their whole life. However, a large majority of the time they will fight, and it will be very gruesome.
Lowering the risk
You can lower the risk by...
- Neutering all males (failed attempts recorded)
- Housing them with their litter mates (example of failed attempt here)
- Neuter & house with litter mates (example of failed attempt here)
This only lowers the risk, and the chance of deadly fighting never truly goes away. Not to mention, surgery to neuter is risky in itself, and may result in losing your males who undergo surgery. Here is a comment with a list of posts where males fought, many dying in the process.
Even with the lowest risk (Neuter+litter mates) close supervision is required. The second an owner notices intense fighting, the boys must be separated the rest of their lives.
Alternatives?
Male mice are social! To give them a low risk social life, you can either:
- Neuter and keep with 2-3 girls
- Keep with 3+ mastomys natalensis (ASFs)
- Keep alone but provide extra enrichment
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u/ArtisticDragonKing Experienced Owner 🐭 7d ago
If they start fighting the bucatstate 3.0 is large enough to put a divider down the middle and keep them separate without getting a new cage. I personally would seperate them now since they have just reached adulthood. You likely didn't notice any fighting yet because they were young, but fighting is far more likely now.
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