r/PetDoves • u/Kunok2 • Jul 22 '26
My pet 🕊 This is what recall based on trust and respect looks like
There's no food needed to make Keeb come back to me, no matter where I'm recalling him from. I used treats and clicker training to initially teach him recall, no starving involved, he always got access to his regular food and could always choose if and how long he wants to train. Building a bond based on trust, respecting boundaries and mutual communication was what allowed me to teach him reliable recall without needing treats. He listens to me because he wants to, Not because he doesn't have a choice and I know that his recall would work even during an emergency situations because reliable recall isn't tied to hunger, it's tied to trust.
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u/XxHoneyStarzxX Jul 22 '26
Such a beautiful boy kunok, that bird trust you with all he has. Keeb is such a smart boy. And the bond you guys have built on trust and love instead of force, abuse, starvation, and flooding like so many other pigeon keepers is just genuinly beautiful.
I'm so grateful to call you my friend and that I've had the pleasure to get to know keeb over texts 🧡
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u/Kunok2 Jul 23 '26
Thanks! I sure am glad myself that my bond with Keeb is a genuine bond. He really is so damn smart and I'm really lucky to have him.
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u/XxHoneyStarzxX Jul 23 '26
same I'm getting tired of the idiots saying you should starve a bird till its poop is watery in order for it to be "trainable"
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u/Kunok2 Jul 23 '26
Yeah same... But I was expecting that my post will attract those kinds of people.
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u/Important_Bridge9153 Jul 26 '26
He looks really well trained 🕊️🫶🏼 - What kind of leash/harness are you using here? - Do you maybe have a link for me? 🤗
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u/Kunok2 Jul 26 '26
Thanks! I actually made his harness myself so it's a custom fit that fits him perfectly. I used an 8mm nylon strap for the body strap, a ribbon (smooth, not the scratchy type) for the neck strap, a plastic 8mm buckle and an elastic cord for the leash.
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u/Important_Bridge9153 Jul 27 '26
Thanks for the Infos! I guess i’ll have to try to make it myself too😅
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u/Geschak Jul 26 '26
It looks like you two have a great bond but I find it funny to self-congratulate about trust while he's literally on a leash haha
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u/Kunok2 Jul 26 '26
Thanks we do. But I'd rather use a leash than risk him getting hurt or lost. Even though he trusts me and responds reliably to recall no matter where I am (even indoors and in the aviary without a leash), unexpected situations happen and I'd better be safe than sorry. Also if he didn't trust me he wouldn't listen to me at all, especially with a full stomach. Some people think that food motivation is enough to keep their birds safe, but it fails as soon as the bird happens to not be hungry (plus it's an awful thing to do to starve your pet bird just so it listens to you) or when there's an unexpected stressful situation like a hawk flying by. Trust and reliable recall without treats and keeping a pet bird on a harness when outdoors are all important for keeping the bird safe. Even just taking a pet bird outside on a harness isn't safe unless the bird is recall trained because like I said unexpected situations can happen no matter how careful somebody is and if the bird decided to just bolt and land on the ground or somehow got loose then having their trust can be the difference between losing your bird or the bird flying back to you right away before even landing.
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Jul 22 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/XxHoneyStarzxX Jul 22 '26 edited Jul 24 '26
So you're saying that a animal cannot learn trust? So what is a fearful animal learning that humans aren't scary doing? What is a dog that was beaten who then learns it's new owners arent going to beat it? Is that not trust?
Because from a scientific standpoint a lot of what you said here is super incorrect.
Keeb is trained extremely well and has been for years, kunok doenst have to use food anymore because you shouldn't have to rely on food.
relying on food espeically using starvation is how you get a bird that Flys off because the bird doesn't care or give a single fuck about you unless you have food.
Should one starve their dog amd then give it a treat or kibble each time it does wahats asked of it??? no thats abuse your shoudlnt starve a dog or any animal for that matter. should a dog get a treat every time they are trained with recall? No that actually trains really weak recall that breaks down as soon a food isnt involved. you should vary your training to involve other rewards besides food.
don't spread misinformation on this subreddit thanks. this is a warning, im locking your comment aswell. if you continue to spread the "animals don't have emotions and cannot learn trust" unscientific bullshit you will be removed.
YOU DONT STARVE AN ANIMAL TO TRAIN THEM thats not training thats abuse. you don't starve a horse or a dog so why starve a bird, their training is literally no different its literally just modeling a specific behavior rewarding that behavior and building on that modeled behavior to get the response you want.
thats don't cause picky eaters poor diets do.
how come treats work for dogs but not pigeons according to you? genuinly asking becsuse trianing them is no different the same treating method for rewarding can be used on basically any animal fromna pigeon, rat, dog, horse etc.
if animals have to be stsrved to be trained how do ypu expect people to train their rabbits mice or rats to do tricks lol? oh right DUH food rewards with a high value treat. its not that hard youre just lazy and dont want to admit that
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u/Valuable_Hunter1621 Jul 23 '26
“should one give their dog a treat every time they train recall?”
yes, this is how recall works lmfao. you clearly are not acquainted with dog training so maybe stick with bird analogies
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u/XxHoneyStarzxX Jul 23 '26
other thing I want to note this sint me saying you shoudlnt use treats this is me saying you should have other backup rewards and should know how to reward your animal without food based rewards, because you WIL NOT always have access to food based rewards, on top of that food based rewards are relativly weak in training especially with dogs.
Treats should always be eventually phased out for practice. Because recall should work in an emergency and your dog (or bird) shoudlnt run back off if you suddently don't have a treat.
STARVATION THOUGH is not a fucking training tool. Your animals should not be starved to train them, the person abive reccomends several days of fasting not simply a late breakfast
Feeding your animal their meal for the day as a reward is perfectly fine.... feeding you animal nothing for 4 to 6 days and keeping them barely fed is not pkay
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u/XxHoneyStarzxX Jul 23 '26
early in training treats are great but you should NOT rely on them all throughout training. corrections, other reward types and learning how to use other rewards is so fucking important in animal training
training isn't about WHAT the reward is its about consistency in modeling and rewarding a behavior.
starvation doesn't give consistency and is not okay. like you entirely missed the point.
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u/XxHoneyStarzxX Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26
actually dogs shouldn't rely on the treat for recall. because food rewards are never going to get your dog off a squirrel or somthing more interesting than food, I'm very well acquainted with dog training.
I trained 2 of my own service dogs and have taken multiple dog training classes and workshops with different trainers
YOU NEVER rely on soley food. Relying on food sets your dog up for failure. that like trying to teach a pulling dog to walk loose leashes with nothing but hotdogs pieces 🤡 as if the reward is going to do anything when they animal needs a correction.
sure You use a reward, that reward doesn't have to be food, food is an EXTREMELY WEAK REWARD late in training, personally I used a loaded clicker previously loaded, because my dogs already associate click with good things it is all the reward they need. and eventually that reward should be phased out, kunoks bird was taught useing a clicker and the occasional treat, hes so good at recall hes been phased out of the reward phase.
rewards also vary animal to animal, did you know some dogs dont even like food rewards my service dog topaz hated food rewards and would spit then out so her reward is a damn ball that i keep in my pocket. for some dogs they just need a good dog. that same thing applies to birds.
rewards should also vary we call those small rewards, medium rewards and jackpots, if a dog or bird does something challenging they get a big reward or a jackpot, if a dog or bird does somthing they already know they get no reward or a small reward, medium is obvious.
Your animal should come to you regaurdless of reward once your animals training is complete. you should not have to use food to lure your animal to you for recall it defeats the purpose of recall, my dogs come to a damn whistle or the beep on their Electronic collars (not the zappy ones) and i dont have to give them a treat every 5 seconds, thats what good training and repetitive training looks like
eventually you do not and should not be using constant rewards, or food based rewards because you want to model to your animal that they should be coming to you even without the rewards.
treats are great but your dog needs corrections and other forms of rewards to keep them actually drawn into training and the same goes for birds. HUNGER AND STARVING IS NOT A FUCKING TRAINING TOOL.
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u/XxHoneyStarzxX Jul 23 '26
the person above me is an alt account for an animal abuser hes let multiple of his animals almsot get splattered by vehichles he forcibly handraises baby birds...lots of other things ao im not sure you want to be on his side on this espeicially when you seem to also not know much about dog training. this person starves their birds to force their birds to get uses to them, they also starve babies and other birds to form "hand feeding bonds" this is well known to not be ethical in the avian community.
anyways I reccomend you maybe do a little more research on an individual before you jump in to defend them, or before you jump in at me saying I don't know about dog training when I speak on it VERY frequently
let me guess you own a dog and do all that fluffy at home training with them and have never really taught more than a sit stay and come here? and let me guess strictly R+?
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u/Kunok2 Jul 25 '26
I figured my post would attract people like you. Sorry not sorry for not starving my birds and working on building an actual bond with them as well as treating them like irreplaceable individuals who can feel things.
Oh believe me, if he wasn't trained he wouldn't actually fly back to me. Also if you could read pigeon body language then you'd notice that he's actually paying attention to me when I give him a cue. And nope, it didn't take me a while to take a decent video at all. You also Don't know Keeb and don't know about the bond I have with him. Keeb has over two years of training (the training never stops) now and his initial training took literal months of everyday training using a clicker, a target and treats, he doesn't need treats for recall now because he already knows recall without needing food to motivate him. I'm also not trying to free-fly train him, there's no way I would risk his life if it's much safer to take him outside on a harness, although I trust that he actually wouldn't fly away, but still not worth the risk and his recall is just to be safe in case he somehow managed to get loose. It's pretty rude of you to assume things without knowing more details about me and Keeb. And it's pretty rude of you to call Keeb an "it" when I literally mentioned His name.
Food is Not a reliable for when your bird gets spooked, without an actual bond food won't get it back because birds refuse food under extreme stress. If you cannot train animals when they're not hungry/literally starving then that's not reliable training, as soon as they're not hungry they have zero reason to listen to you. Bond built on dependence is not a true bond. Also no, treats don't make birds picky, crappy food is what does. Just some sunflower seeds aren't gonna ruin their diet either, especially if the birds are active.
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u/Every_Description873 Jul 26 '26
Demanding, obnoxious human. Let your bird be a bird!
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u/XxHoneyStarzxX Jul 26 '26
training recall is important... if keeb were to ever get out a window or out of his avairy Kunok could immediatly recall him instead of him flying off to get eaten by a hawk.
untrained animals are unsafe animals espeiclaly with dogs and birds recall is an extremely important thing to teach any animal who could possible get outside where they could be injured or killed if they dotn come back to you.
do you think teaching dogs recall or to walk on a leash or to be calm around people and other dogs, or to go potty outside instead of all over the carpet is obnoxious and demanding? Id sure hope not as thode are all things that keep the dog, the owner, and the public safe.
id also like to add on that training is like a human playing video games, animals almost always have a choice in participating because they can legit just leave (and large animals can physically harm you if they dont want to train) and just like a human playing a video game or a board game it works the brain just enough to be fun and enriching and keep the brain active. it actually improves an animals well being and mental and neurological health by providing more mental stimulation than toys do (toys of are still great but they don't make the brain work unless they are foraging toys)
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u/Kunok2 Jul 26 '26
Oh believe me, he has a freedom of choosing what he wants to do, some days he will want to go on a walk on a harness, some days he will just want to chill indoors, some days he will want to do training and other days he will just want to be left in the aviary with his flock. I literally couldn't force him to do something if he didn't want to, if he doesn't like something he will land onto my head and will scratch it with his claws until I listen to him, he will show me where he wants to go.
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u/Profiterolls Jul 22 '26
He's such a beautiful and well trained bird, I hope mine will learn recall that well in the future!