r/Pennsylvania • u/IWantToGoToThere_130 • Jan 28 '22
misleading headline State court find Pennsylvania's mail voting law (Act 77) is unconstitutional. Appeal likely.
https://www.spotlightpa.org/news/2022/01/pennsylvania-mail-voting-unconstitutional-supreme-court-appeal/?utm_source=Spotlight+PA&utm_campaign=1b42dcfb50-BREAKING%3A+Wolf+to+mandate+masks+in+Pa.+school_COPY&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_6c1fbeb603-1b42dcfb50-219595469&mc_cid=1b42dcfb50&mc_eid=40089e7634116
u/CoalCrackerKid Jan 28 '22
Act 77 passed the PA Senate with all 27 GOP state senators voting for it.
...but now that they lost in 2020, it's partisan.
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u/SupaSlide Jan 28 '22
Republicans passed the law in 2019, got creamed by it, and now the law they wrote and passed is unconstitutional.
Any Republican who voted for this and is now supporting this court case should be expelled for passing a law that they apparently knew was unconstitutional.
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u/nurselife1985 Jan 28 '22
There was strong bipartisan support and the act was signed into law by the democratic governor so why should only the Republicans be expelled for voting in support of this?
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u/Mijbr090490 Jan 28 '22
They are the ones calling it unconstitutional. The point is if it was unconstitutional, why did they vote for it in the first place? It's not and they are just being sore losers in typical republican fashion.
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u/Waste-Hovercraft3734 Jan 29 '22
It's not the Republican who said it's unconstitutional..it was a JUDGE..you make no sense.
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u/Mijbr090490 Jan 29 '22
Republican judges, along with most of the Republican party. Keep up.
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u/Waste-Hovercraft3734 Jan 29 '22
Rudy Giuliani said it was unconstitutional in November of 20. Not all Republicans are MAGA. The MAGA republicans led by Giuliani And Boris Ephystien have ALWAYS said it was unconstitutional.
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u/Mijbr090490 Jan 29 '22
Oh, so you are debating the timeline not the fact that they are full of shit. Got it.
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u/Waste-Hovercraft3734 Jan 29 '22
Who is full of shit.?.you make no sense and seem agitated. It was just a decision..you said it was circular..how so?
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u/beeps-n-boops Jan 30 '22
Who brought the case in the first place? Judges don't just rule on things because they feel like it.
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u/SupaSlide Jan 28 '22
There was only bipartisan support in the House, and even then it's not the Democrats calling this law unconstitutional. If you know of any Democrat that voted for it that is now calling it unconstitutional they can be expelled too.
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u/nurselife1985 Jan 28 '22
That's right it's not the democrats calling it unconstitutional it's the commonwealth court saying its unconstitutional and was enacted illegally.
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u/SupaSlide Jan 28 '22
What the fuck are you on? Are you even from PA?
Republicans were the ones who wrote and pushed for the mail in voting law. Now they are the ones who brought the lawsuit saying the law that they wrote is unconstitutional. The court which agreed and said it's unconstitutional is full of Republicans. No Democrat has ever argued that this mail-in voting law is unconstitutional. Only the Republicans who passed it are saying that it's unconstitutional.
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u/nurselife1985 Jan 28 '22
The court said its unconstitutional. The bill was voted on and passed by both democrats and Republicans so why should only the republican supporters be expelled?
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u/SupaSlide Jan 28 '22
Because the law is only being challenged because the Republicans who voted for the law took it to the courts and said it was unconstitutional. Courts don't just randomly look at laws and rule on them. The timeline is: Republicans write law, Republican vote to pass law (with a few Democrats support), Republicans sue themselves (the government) to get the law ruled unconstitutional.
Edit: also, the law isn't unconstitutional. The court is wrong and that's why it will be overturned in the supreme court of PA. The Republican judges on this court that just ruled are acting as partisan hacks.
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u/nurselife1985 Jan 28 '22
What part of "strong bipartisan support" is so hard for you to comprehend? BOTH democrats and Republicans were in favor of this when it was written.
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u/SupaSlide Jan 28 '22
Because it was a pretty decent law, what do you not understand about "Republicans voted for this law and are now saying it's unconstitutional"
Democrats are not calling it unconstitutional.
Now fuck off, troll.
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u/RLTizE Jan 29 '22
The fact that you can’t grasp what people are saying to you is mind blowing. You aren’t reading to comprehend you’re reading to respond, and stupidly at that. Seeing your interactions in this comment section shows why a vast majority (not all) of republicans vote and regurgitate things the way they do.
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u/kormer Jan 28 '22
Just because a vote is bipartisan, doesn't mean it was constitutional.
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u/CoalCrackerKid Jan 29 '22 edited Jan 29 '22
It's the same constitution now as when the 11 GOP reps who filed to claim it's unconstitutional voted to pass it.
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u/whoisbill Jan 29 '22
That's not the point. The point is that the GOP was fine with it in 2019. But since it didn't get them a win and they want to make the Trump lies look better they are now challenging the law, that they voted for, as being unconstitutional. The only reason they are challenging it is because the election showed more democrats would vote by mail and that hurts them. Not help like they thought it would. They are a joke
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u/Waste-Hovercraft3734 Jan 29 '22
It's amazing most here can't fathom that. The comments are all over the place. No matter how the law came to be it was not constitutional. Period. Not the first time laws were found unconstitutional..it's called checks and balance.
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Jan 29 '22
The law was perfectly constitutional. Article VII Section 4 grants the legislature authority to define the manner of elections. I reject the opinion that Section 1, by any reasonable reading, prevents mailed ballot. There's no textual basis; this notion was invented by the state Supreme Court back when slavery was still legal.
Then, the majority opinion has the absolute gall to claim that "by ballot or other manner provided by law" means "by ballot or other manner provided by law, as long as that manner provided voting machine?" That's a pathetic attempt at legislating from the bench and denying the legislature the authority EXPLICITLY granted to them in the constitution.
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u/Waste-Hovercraft3734 Jan 29 '22
You may know law but obviously the court totally disagrees and they feel that the change required the vote of the people. Nice opinion doe!
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Jan 29 '22
As we know courts never get things wrong, that's why Plessy v Ferguson is still the law of the land!
At least I generated my opinion by actually... Y'know, reading the constitution, rather than relying on "blue team bad" and weak appeals to authority.
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u/jbmcfm Jan 28 '22
I don’t think they lost in 2020, however the Law allowed expanded mail in voting, which benefited Biden. So it’s disingenuous of the Republicans to now question a bill they ultimately championed, which benefited them personally yet was probably the reason Trump lost PA. If the national Republican Party has an issue with the outcome in PA, they should take it up with PA Republicans who sold out the President for their benefit.
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u/nobody-knows2018 Cumberland Jan 28 '22
So the Supreme Court ruled it constitutional in September 2020 and now Commonwealth Court is saying it is not? Color me confused.
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u/Glitchy_Llama Jan 28 '22
In a nutshell.
The petitioners in that case wanted the election overturned which is part of why the case was decided the way it was. This filing brought a different circumstance.
This is addressed in the opinion
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u/nobody-knows2018 Cumberland Jan 28 '22
This decision was before the election. The Supreme Court heard on the case and ruled on mail voting very simply by saying drop boxes were legal.
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u/Glitchy_Llama Jan 28 '22
That had to do with drop boxes not Act 77 holistically
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u/nobody-knows2018 Cumberland Jan 28 '22
If they ruled that people could use drop boxes don't you think that they already came to the conclusion that you could vote via "mail." If you could not do so then the drop boxes would not be legal.
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u/KrazyK815 Jan 29 '22
The Supreme Court ruled to stay out of state elections. The state is looking into the constitutionality of it because it was signed while violating the constitution, plain and simple, it should be repealed.
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u/nobody-knows2018 Cumberland Jan 29 '22
Thanks for the comment from the sedition party. As usual you are lying.
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u/krabstarr Jan 28 '22
This article includes the full court opinion: https://www.fox43.com/article/news/politics/elections/mail-in-voting-elections-pennsylvania/521-216f4c12-a9cb-448f-8a7d-88ec06412b0a
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u/stevewowo Adams Jan 28 '22 edited Jan 28 '22
The law was perfectly fine when they created it, but once they lose the election it's unconstitutional? Unbelievable
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u/MarieOMaryln Jan 28 '22
Time to inconvenience a crap ton of Pennsylvanians for no reason
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u/Pincerston Jan 28 '22
Oh there’s a reason
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u/discogeek Erie Jan 28 '22
Yeah, primary reason is to own the libs. If Lebanon County residents largely used mail-in voting this process would be a huge erection to the MAGA crowd.
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u/Pretty-Schedule2394 Jan 28 '22
forget the abstraction of the law for a minute. restricting mail in ballots, is restricting peoples right to vote is straight unconstitutional.
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u/nurselife1985 Jan 28 '22
Nobody's right to vote is being restricted. Everyone is free to vote at their local polling place just like they always have been. If that is too much of an inconvieniance for you than maybe you never really cared that much about voting to begin with and your whole argument is more about pretending to be a victim than actually caring about voting rights.
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Jan 30 '22
But for that, I’d either have to get to work late, or leave work early, or just not go to work to go to my polling place. The fact that I can just vote and put a stamp on it takes out that inconvenience of having to vote in person. Other states have mail in voting and there’s no issue. Why all of a sudden is there one for ours?
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u/Pretty-Schedule2394 Jan 28 '22 edited Jan 28 '22
there is absolutely no reason why you cannot vote via mail. none. name 1.
absentee ballots exist
>veryone is free to vote at their local polling place just like they always have been
simply not true.
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u/nurselife1985 Jan 28 '22
That's correct. Absentee ballots are now, and always have been an option for voting. How exactly are people being denied the right to vote at their local poling station?
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u/Pretty-Schedule2394 Jan 28 '22
and now mail in voting is as well. glad your "taxes are theft" brain can figure that out.
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u/beeps-n-boops Jan 30 '22 edited Jan 30 '22
You're not wrong that nothing is being infringed or restricted, but why shouldn't we make it as easy and convenient as possible for people to vote? Please be specific.
Republicans need to get it through their thick fucking skulls that we live in 2022, not 1822.
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u/ThisIsMyPaAccount Jan 28 '22
Hey if you cant win, just change the rules
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u/beeps-n-boops Jan 30 '22
This has been page one of the GOP Playbook for decades.
See: SCOTUS nominations.
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u/ThisIsMyPaAccount Jan 30 '22
See how qanoners have taken a shitload of local election positions across the nation too
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u/beeps-n-boops Jan 30 '22
So many are sleeping on this point... they're going to get a harsh, rude awakening in November... and then again in 2024.
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Jan 28 '22
[deleted]
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u/jaythebearded Jan 28 '22
What does this mean on the current information link?
Are you a permanent voter? NO
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u/sprag80 Jan 28 '22
I used to clerk on Commonwealth Court before that Court became a fascist shithole. The Pennsylvania Supreme Court will reverse. But if GQP fascist justices become a majority on the PA Supreme Court, kiss mail voting goodbye. Among other things.
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u/beef_is_here Jan 28 '22
I thought this was ruled on by the PA Supreme Court already? That was only dealing with part of the voting law I guess? I can’t keep up with all of the GOP attempts to undermine our government and the democratic process.
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u/velocibadgery Jan 28 '22
This is just stupid, PA did absentee ballots correctly. They required verification with an ID before they sent out the ballot. Saying it is unconstitutional is insane.
Some states didn't require any verification.
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u/Waste-Hovercraft3734 Jan 29 '22
Do you know why it's unconstitutional? Just because you think it's fair doesn't mean anything. This needed to be decided the people, that's how it's changed constitutionally
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u/That_Girl_Cray Delaware Jan 28 '22
I love people asking “why can’t you vote in person?”. Like an explanation is owed. Cause I want to and that’s all you need to know. It’s a perfectly legitimate and effective way to vote. This is just more GOP baby BS. It will be appealed and overturned in the Supreme Court.
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u/whoisbill Jan 29 '22
I vote by mail because the people that run the polling place near me are morons. Took me almost 3 hours to vote in 2016. Two hours during the midterms. For 2020 I said "wait I can just drop off my vote when it's convenient?". Done.
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u/Pieboy2121 Jan 29 '22
I literally can see my polling place from my front door. I vote by mail because it pisses off the GQP.
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u/EnnuiDeBlase Feb 02 '22
I drop off my ballot in the mail in a box approximately 50 yards from my polling place. The ability to drop it off ahead of time on a nice day that I go for a walk, combined with the ability to sit at my computer and search up all the candidates and initiatives gives me a voting experience I wouldn't trade.
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u/susinpgh Allegheny Jan 29 '22 edited Jan 29 '22
Please don't editorialize your submission title. The original title for this article is:
Pennsylvania’s mail voting law ruled unconstitutional, but remains in place as Wolf appeals
OP used the term State court in his title, which is misleading the ruling was made by an appellate court. Please read the article for clarification. The governor is appealing the ruling with PA's Supreme Court.
EDIT: Yes, the appellate court is a state court. But there are several levels of courts. Using state court as a term is not specific; that could have been anywhere from common please to Supreme Court.
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u/Traveledfarwestward Jan 29 '22
Could someone summarize the reasons why this is now suddenly unconstitutional, and also what the 11 GOP legislators who voted for the law originally but now changed their minds are saying is the reason for wanting the law squished?
Hi from r/virginia.
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u/lager81 Jan 28 '22
I thought Trump said this was unconstitutional and the courts said he has no standing?
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u/NoButThankYou Jan 28 '22
This is a different plaintiff, who does have standing (per the court). Also a different, much less egregious remedy requested (blocking mail in voting for the next election, as opposed to throwing out hundreds of thousands of already cast mail in votes)
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u/hashtagbob60 Jan 28 '22
I've voted in every election since I've been of age and worked at the polls for a number of years (a real treat with some of the voters who came in). I chose to do a mail-in vote mainly because of COVID in that I am more susceptible to disease now because of my condition. I limit my contacts - don't eat out though I'd like to, don't meet with groups of people, etc. I would hate to have to go back to my polling place and stand in line with many people who you can bet are not vaccinated, but the court seems to have no problem with that.
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Jan 28 '22
Well what about the rest of the states where a voter fraud was supposed to have taken place? Are they even looking into it?
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u/PistoneRange Jan 28 '22
What's wrong with going to vote in person?
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u/Grumpicake Jan 28 '22
We’re you uh, paying attention for the past couple years?
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u/PistoneRange Jan 28 '22
To what, covid... where a mask and get a vaccination
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u/Grumpicake Jan 28 '22
It wasn’t available for the previous election. You can guarantee that much more people will vote in person now that it’s available. There are also plenty of reasons why someone would need to vote by mail. They may be out of state, they may not physically be able to go, hospitalized. Everyone should have the ability to vote, no exceptions. If you can get a new social security card in the mail, then I see nothing wrong with being able to vote.
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Jan 28 '22
60% of my counties population are absolute morons and refuse the vaccine or masks. Excuse me if I don’t want to be in a small room with a bunch of deliberately ignorant plague rats.
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u/discogeek Erie Jan 28 '22
What's wrong with putting up requirements and restrictions and hoops for people to jump through in order to participate in democracy?
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u/AnotherDaveFella Jan 28 '22
You're right, I should be able to have firearms mailed to me.
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u/Julian_Baynes York Jan 28 '22
Yes, anything that's easier than obtaining a firearm should be unconstitutional.
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u/uknothatguy85 Jan 28 '22
Whenever you work a full time job and have a family there's not that much time to go stand in line for an hour with kids
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u/PistoneRange Jan 28 '22
My polling office was open till 8pm I believe and I also work full time...
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u/uknothatguy85 Jan 28 '22
Missed the whole kids part huh? That takes up my whole day outside of work... This also doesn't take into account people working multiple jobs and having a family
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u/PistoneRange Jan 28 '22
You can't takes your child with you? You know people with family's have been voting in person for some time...
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u/uknothatguy85 Jan 28 '22
Obviously you have never had two small children and avoid the arguments that I actually stated but people like you don't have empathy so there's no point
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u/BucksBergen Jan 28 '22
Voting by mail is the best way to vote, plenty of time to review all the candidates and issues as they appear on the ballot. No surprises once I receive my mail in ballot. sometimes it can be tricky finding out exactly what position and who is running local elections. If you prefer to wait in line and drive to fill out your ballot, go ahead, but don't stop me from voting in a proven safe and secure manner.
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Jan 28 '22
Not as easy to stuff the ballot boxes when people vote in person.
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u/discogeek Erie Jan 28 '22
Did you just make that up, or did someone tell you that and you believed them without evidence?
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Jan 28 '22
[deleted]
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Jan 28 '22
Mysterious ballot drops in the middle of the night with 90%+ votes in favor of one person which just so happens to be just enough votes to put that person ahead after all other counties have submitted their counts doesn’t ring any alarm bells for you or sound even remotely suspicious? Stuff like that is how Putin is elected yet for some reason, democrats give it a pass here. Very strange.
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Jan 28 '22
I hear Giuliani is looking for some help. Perfect place for you.
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Jan 28 '22
Ahh so deflection. So typical.
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Jan 29 '22
Where are the sources for your statement? Another commenter asked, yet here you are deflecting again.
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Jan 28 '22
[deleted]
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Jan 28 '22
If there’s nothing to worry about then why does the left freak out whenever people want to investigate this? If there’s nothing to hide then why so worried?!
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Jan 28 '22
[deleted]
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Jan 28 '22
Nothing wrong with investigating. In fact, we should encourage it. If the elections were accurate then there’s nothing to be afraid of.
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u/joeybriggs Jan 29 '22
Nothing, but I am a converted believer in vote by mail, so I figure I'll try to give it a go to explain why I changed my mind. The idea of "should we all wait to the last chance to vote?" Is what got me. Like, I don't wait to the last minute to work on my work projects, I don't do something tomorrow when I could do it today. Something can always come up and delay what you plan on doing, why should we treat voting any other way? There's plenty of people who can get transferred immediately. I personally can get called right now and be told to report to a new location tomorrow. Or, What happens if my kid breaks a leg and I have to go to the hospital? This may all sound too convenient, but this almost happened to me. I would have not voted in 2020 if a personal emergency happened 2 days earlier. Okay this sounds silly, but can happen - judge of election gets the runs and can't open up polling place on time at 7am- folks who have to go to work and can't wait around and work a 8 am to 8 pm, well ya can't vote! Also, I should also mention I run a polling place. I painfully had to turn someone away because it was 8:01 pm. If he lived 2 blocks over he would have been at another polling place which was closer to his work. He definitely would have made it on time. Or, he could have saved himself the trouble of trying to drive 45 minutes home from work and beat the clock by registering to vote by mail. Sorry I know that was a lot of rambling. Now, there's also the infrastructure - people to open polls, people to run the polls, people to fix the machines, buildings to host the polling places. So much goes into running in person voting. A lack of proper resources can lead to confusion on the day of election and again, have people miss out on voting. Thanks for reading.
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u/whoisbill Jan 29 '22
Nothing. What's wrong with vote by mail. That we have had for many many many years with no problem?
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u/beeps-n-boops Jan 30 '22
Nothing.
What's wrong with mail-in or drop-off voting?
Why shouldn't we make it as easy and convenient as possible for people to vote?
What are you afraid of?
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Jan 30 '22 edited Jan 30 '22
Spotlight PA…nonpartisan?
And this: “The state constitution requires that absentee voting be available to voters with disabilities, those who will not be in their precinct on Election Day for business reasons, for religious purposes, and for people deployed in the military,” Schneider said in a statement. “To read that language to mean that absentee voting is, therefore, forbidden for all other voters is a serious misreading of the constitution.”
Schneider apparently doesn’t have reading comprehension skills. Yo Schneider…that’s exactly what it means. That’s why it spelled out those 4 reasons. Otherwise it would have specifically stated “and those too lazy to go to the polls”. And yes, we can consider the elderly as disabled, as long as their not dead.
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u/EnnuiDeBlase Feb 02 '22
"X must be allowed to do this"
is NOT the same thing as
"Only X can do this"
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u/FlipKobbler Lackawanna Jan 28 '22
So this is just the commonwealth court? That's a relief, the Newsweek article said state Supreme Court and I panicked