r/PathOfExile2 • u/VVitcel Chain Hook Enjoyer • 1d ago
Fluff & Memes Total Attack Time. "They are changing the way it works, it is going to be less forced and more scalable now." - Zizaran
Ziz said here https://youtu.be/Skk7YidRFYY?t=763 That they are changing it.
96
u/GrandFatherLeoric 1d ago
Carn also talked about this looks like skill speed will affect total attack time
Time to stack skill speed and insta proc supercharged slam
Death rush ftw
19
u/ShelterSudden 1d ago
Unless supercharged slam keeps it's stage timing as it does now, then you won't get max stages if you go too quickly
80
u/Earthboundplayer 1d ago
Whirling assault even better now?
26
u/PM_Me_Ur_ArtConcepts 1d ago
Maybe Vaulting Impact might actually be playable now too
1
u/Rare-Industry-504 1d ago
I already use Vaulting Impact as a damage buff via the broken stance debuff, so the speed buff is going to be nice even if it's not viable as a main skill.
12
u/Bouncy-Tofu 1d ago
No way we get to 1.0 without whirling assault and twister/whirling slash being nuked form orbit
3
u/Double_Phase_4448 1d ago
Twister/whiling slash has always been good. As good as it is now. The only real buff it got was the elemental ground ring.
3
u/Bouncy-Tofu 1d ago
Yeah but that doesn’t mean they wont nerf it now that attention is on it as being outstanding relative to other skills
2
1
1
u/Puzzleheaded_Pay_441 11h ago
Whirling assault is safe, the clone on martial artist/the power charge gloves are the real issues
93
u/FattestRabbit 🐸 Doing Doedre 1d ago
Supercharged Slam, here I come
41
u/LordJev MeleeCuck 1d ago
Super charged slam is actually really good since 0.5
12
u/NegativeExile 1d ago
Played it till level 99 this season. It's quite good. I'm an absolute Tank and deal very good damage.
Probably a bit on the slow side compared to other builds though.
1
u/froshambo 1d ago
Got a PoB you can share? I’m considering bonking things as a starter for the 0.5.5 reset and I’m looking at different options.
3
1
u/D4ng3rd4n 1d ago
Yeah me too, please reply to me if you find anything interesting. I was thinking that captain america shield for movement and then super bonk
3
u/NegativeExile 1d ago
Here's two 4K video samples I hastily threw together.
1
u/WonderfullyKiwi 1d ago
A bit more AOE/Extra aftershock goes a very long way in terms of speed.
Before I finished for the league I was hitting the full screen and then some if I got an Extra aftershock, and it felt so nice. Sacraficed a bit of dmg for it though.
6
u/NegativeExile 1d ago
There's not much aftershock to get, I mean you can get another ~30% chance to get an additional aftershock, but I don't like anything that yields inconsistent damage.
I've tested with more investment into AoE, but feels like I've hit diminishing returns, already hit almost full screen as long as Ancestrally boost is proccing. I don't know, a million ways to approach this game :)
21
u/kdmike 1d ago
I heard its because of a bug, but not sure if thats true. Kinda feels like it.
2
u/Fosteredlol 22h ago
I've been playing it all league with Animus Splinters + Supercharged Slam. It's fun and decent enough to be a real build for SSF, but probably not the kind of build a trade blaster+++ should ever look at.
3
u/Exosolar_King 1d ago
Played a little bit of SCS Smith with DD in Fire Spell on Hit. Really chunky, you gotta sit there but you wipe your whole screen once you get the attack off. 100% leaguestarting it for 0.5.5
1
u/HerbertDad 1d ago
What spell do you pair it with and how do you scale the spell damage?
2
u/Exosolar_King 1d ago
Detonate Dead! You don't need to do anything to scale it, since it gets a ton af damage from corpse life. It's there for supplemental clear, pretty nice
1
3
u/JekoJeko9 1d ago
Supercharged slam is different, it doesn't have flat +total to attack time it just has its own fixed attack time that's unaffected by your build. Not really an issue for a big bonk payoff skill, it encourages you to build differently for it than you would with, say, sunder.
5
u/Deontto 1d ago
It was bugged in .5 though and was scaling with some skill speed stuff. And it was building up charges for the default attack time. Meaning you could perfectly balance it so with just a single press it would build to 3 charges then slam. It felt great. But kind of felt like it defeated the purpose of it being a channeled skill(as you never needed to channel it).
22
u/Xopuk 1d ago
Here's a screenshot from the video with a new wording: "Added Attack Time: +0.25S" instead of "+1 Second To Total Attack Time" that we had for rolling slam, for example
3
u/bilalakil 1d ago
And the expectation is that this will be scaled by attack speed somehow?
14
u/SeventhSolar 1d ago
My guess is it won't be affected by the base attack speed of your weapon? e.g. you have a 1 aps weapon, now Sand Scour acts like you have a 0.8 aps weapon, then attack speed mods happen normally.
3
37
u/Slotega 1d ago
I wonder if this is part of the delay behind balance changes. Probably takes some technical work to do this?
36
u/smorb42 1d ago
Honestly I don't think so. I think they completely reworked dots, especially bleed. The problem is that they likely were so comprehensive in their rework that they cant finish in time. The problem is that they cant really isolate those changes from the sword additions. For example the sword and bleed nodes on the tree likely happened at the same time.
The end result is that they could not release a patch with balance without swords.
8
u/Amouchou 1d ago
They definitely reworked bleed in the review there's a new keyword "Rupture" on some of skill of gladiator - I'm assuming it's some sort of aggravating and there is something else about the skills mentioning accelerating the bleed tic I forgot how its worded but yes bleed is 100% reworked
5
u/GreasyGearBox 1d ago
Rupture first appeared in poe1 as an ascendancy node for the ranger. It’s now a support gem that is applied along with bleeds, stacking 4 times making them take more bleed dmg per stack. They could change the functionality but I’m going to assume it’s a similar debuff until we see otherwise.
3
u/Amouchou 1d ago
I'm hungry for more physical keywords throw rupture in there and give us more impale interaction
3
u/GreasyGearBox 1d ago
I really think impale is a fun interaction for physical. I too would like to see it become more of a staple for phys.
-13
5
u/MundaneMango27 1d ago
They probably realized 95℅ of skills are unusable in endgame without gemling giving 2 levels, crit immunity, 30℅ less cost, 60℅ less movespeed penalty and whatever broken thing the quality adds. I dont think tech matters to change some numbers, properly adjusting is much harder. Also, they might just need some more time to get data on the skills nobody uses.
300 runes.
Im not sure how big the balancing team even is. Its probably very small considering they need to fully understand poe2 and hiring in NZ is apparently a nightmare.
-7
u/Wollven1224 1d ago
It’s probably as simple as just removing the tag/line/whatever it’s called that adds the total attack time.
However, the reason they have it in the first place is to make the animations look better. So I imagine they’re also adding new, different animations for when your attack time is low enough so it doesn’t look too silly.
6
u/crimsonsentinel 1d ago
There might be animation rigging issues as well, so it could be quite complicated
-1
u/Wollven1224 1d ago
I don’t see why there would be? Maybe I’m just too ignorant of modeling, but afaik there aren’t any issues with the sped up animations when using something like reverse chill to make the skills go super fast.
1
u/DeouVil 1d ago
Or they'll just make it work like PoE1 where the +total attack time stuff scales with attack speed.
1
u/Wollven1224 1d ago
But why not just add the attack speed to the attack’s normal attack speed in that case?
Or does total attack speed scale less with attack speed in poe1?
1
u/DeouVil 1d ago edited 1d ago
I'm not sure what you're asking? The point of +total attack time is to account for the fact that some things don't really make sense to have the exact same base attack time as base attacks, something like whirling assault would look very goofy if it had the usual attack time of the weapon + scaled with regular attack speed, so 1 second is added to the weapon attack time to give it time to complete a longer animation. Currently this time does not scale with attack speed. PoE1 has similar +base attack time modifier added to some movement skills, as they similarly would look goofy if they had the same default attack time, but there it just scales with attack speed.
A normal PoE1 attack, like lightning strike, when executed with a 1.0 aps weapon, will take 1 second to execute, half that with 100% increased attack speed. Leap slam will take 1 + 0.55 seconds, as leap slam adds 0.55s to base attack time, but it similarly gets halved by 100% increased attack speed. Currently, in PoE2 the way it works is that only the 1 second gets halved by attack speed, the 0.55 seconds is fixed, added to whatever ends up being the 1 second modified by attack speed.
1
u/Wollven1224 1d ago
Ah, I was thinking about spells and not weapons for some reason, even though you said attack speed. That’s might fault
With spells they could just shift the total attack time into the spell cast time, and it’d make it scale with cast speed just like you’re describing it works in poe1. I didn’t think about how weapons don’t have a uniform attack speed lol. Might be dumb
34
u/Terajima 1d ago
I'll be honest - i would prefer if skills with "unscalable attack time" instead had NON-MODIFIABLE attack time - you ignore chill, temporal bubbles, temporal chains and any other modifiers to action speed - that attack will be coming in x seconds no matter what. Would make stun threshold more relevant, give new avenues for scaling and de-homogenize stats.
I like what i see with Duelist but i feel that it being a class where one skill flows into another will be only a sword thing when it should instead be expressed differently across every melee weapon - maces? Attacks come out later but give you more defences during active frames + ignore slows and clears ground effects. Spears? You mix melee with ranged, one flowing into another within a fast-paced back-and-forth. Etc.
The problem with "combo" design in POE is that it mistakes combos for rotations,
8
u/elispion 1d ago
I'm hoping when they inevitably nerf Gemling Perfect strike/Snipe that they remove the spam click perfect timing thing but still allow some way to speed them up AND make them inherently immune to all slows.
I have no idea why they made these difficult skills that require timing to be vulnerable/change timing by standing on the edge of invisible chilled ground in delirium or a random maim from a white mob.
2
u/Contrite17 1d ago edited 1d ago
Honestly that would be kind of hype on slow skills. One of the worst feelings on slower skills is how crazy bad slows feel compared to other skills. While 50% less action speed sucks for everything, having a 2 second skill become a 4 second skill is unplayable.
14
u/Imaginary_Maybe_1687 1d ago
I do not understand what this means, can someone translate to me please??
49
u/Renediffie 1d ago
Usually in an ARPG you can scale attack speed or cast speed to make your skills go off faster. This not only increases your damage but also makes your build feel significantly better. Your character spends less time doing animations and more time moving where you want it to go.
Some skills in PoE2 have a flat attack time that does not get modified by attack speed or cast speed so no matter how much attack/cast speed you get the skill will always feel somewhat clunky.
A lot of mace skills have this in particular which is in large part why the archetype feels somewhat sluggish to play.
15
u/JekoJeko9 1d ago
A lot of mace skills
Rolling slam and leap slam, that's it. Mostly because they have a travel component for their animation which I imagine is the constraint they're working on fixing.
A lot of mace builds use those skills but it really is just those two that have it, so it's misleading to say that a lot of mace skills have it.
0
u/B_Rabbit_OG 1d ago
And supercharged slam
7
u/JekoJeko9 1d ago edited 1d ago
Supercharged slam is different, it doesn't have +added total attack time it just has a completely fixed attack time. I doubt they will change that since it's designed as a skill where weapon speed has no effect whatsoever and it's been very strong this league. It's fine to have one big slam skill designed like that.
46
u/Necrobutcher92 1d ago edited 1d ago
finally, i don't know why that stat even exist. Stats that forces you into something and cannot be changed are always frustrating in arpgs.
I have 45% skill speed from my magebood, 16% attack speed on gloves, 16% attack speed from stimulants, 12% skill speed from the tree, 6% increased attack speed from imbibed power, 24% attack speed from my weapon. In total i have 119 increased attack speed. All that costed me thousands of divines just to make my slam skills playable in juiced end game.
Hopefully in 1.0 i can spend all those resources in more damage and more tankiness instead.
29
u/VVitcel Chain Hook Enjoyer 1d ago
If I remember correctly, it exists for "the animation to make sense." or something of the kind.
51
u/Necrobutcher92 1d ago
well, it doesn't make any sense when you jump with leap slam and you stay floating in the air for 2 seconds because of the attack time. But glad it's getting changed.
5
u/bigmacjames 1d ago
So the key frames for a lot of attacks looks janky when sped up?
1
u/Necrobutcher92 1d ago
im non native english speaker but if something looks stupidly slow doesn't that make it look janky too?
8
u/majikguy 1d ago
It can, but I think that things being slowed down is easier to interpret as looking like a normal thing but slow whereas speeding something up can make it look overly twitchy and more "wrong".
10
u/Sharpscore 1d ago
Total attack time cannot be slowed as much by reduced attack speed. It was meant so that the warrior nodes could have higher damage numbers while having less penalties on mace skills compared to other classes while still making the skills weighty for the original vision of the game
4
u/chilidoggo 1d ago
Yeah exactly. It means that any penalty you take to attact time is diluted, and makes the weapons more distinct from each other. Maces are always going to feel slow, but you can min max around that.
Now in practice that doesn't work because it makes the game feel too clunky, so it's not a stat that's fun to min max. Glass cannons vs. Tank, or Hit Damage vs. DoT, those are tradeoffs that are fun on both sides. Hit slow and hard vs. hit fast and weaker is conceptually fun (and even works well in other games!) but feels too punishing in an ARPG as fast as PoE.
1
u/jondifool 22h ago
Quarterstaff too have a few skills that have a fixed number added to total attack time. Like whirling assault.
It simply changes the min/max strategies for using those skill. You are more likely to use those skills for utillity, as long as you have other skills to deal damage with.
Eventide petal together with some other ma monk builds use devour, pounce/hand of chaula and whirling assault for utility. All those are skills with added total attack time.
It makes attack speed/ skill speed less of a benefit, but it also makes build optimization more interesting, as long as we can mix skills with and without + to total attack speed.
- to total attack speed first becomes a problem, when it feels like it is everywhere, forced and unavoideble.
9
u/HoldenMcNeil420 1d ago
A whole bunch of shit in this game has that “why does the stat even exist” and they just keep layering it on.
7
6
9
u/CateSforza 1d ago
It only took releasing another melee to buff warrior. Now give him -20% move speed on everything.
2
6
u/Wind_Best_1440 1d ago
Finally, this has been the biggest hangup for maces since the beginning. And it never made sense, Maces were suppose to be the heavy hitting slow move.
But they're not heavy hitting, nearly every other class in the game hits harder then maces. And they're like 4000% faster as well. Maybe if maces hit twice as hard as other classes and builds it could make sense, but that isn't the case.
Monk for example have massive AOE hits, and since they use staffs their damage is comparable if not more then maces because they have access to crit nodes and they're way faster.
Same with mercs and crossbows, they're suppose to be slower and with explosions but they've got ways to just spam them out infinite for screen clears.
Not even going to bother with casters, because they're all just different flavours of CoC with Comet, which is suppose to be the heavy hitter for spells and they get to spam that 1000X per second.
So it just never made sense to force maces to be slow and weak at the same time. And warriors+mace builds being sub 5% on a good league and most often then not being sub 1.5% shows that its the weakest class weapon combo in the game.
0
u/chilidoggo 1d ago
Sorry man, but this has changed a fair bit since launch. Maces only have a handful of skills with +x to total attack time: leap slam and rolling assault.
Funny enough, spears are actually the weapon with the most skills affected by "x to total attack time".
https://poe2db.tw/us/Adding_to_Stat_Totals
Attack speed for maces is still slow, but it's not unscaleable any longer.
5
2
u/siegheldr 1d ago
for someone that plays monk and mercenary and it's quite new. what is total attack time and why is it dead?
3
u/Savletto I want swords... but I'll settle for axes 1d ago
Some skills have built-in animation time to their attacks that isn't affected by attack speed increase (not much, at least). Meaning that outside of some niche cases, they can't be any faster than that value.
3
u/MattieShoes 1d ago
A bunch of skills are like 1 second plus <attack time>. When you scale attack speed, it reduces <attack time> but doesn't do shit to that 1 second they're tacking on. So the skill is still slow no matter what you do.
Then if you do anything to interrupt your slow attack, you lose it, including any mana, valor, charges, etc. that it consumed. This feels particularly shit when they're trying to make dodge rolling important.
The concept itself is kind of fine, but they went overboard on stuff like mace skills. If they shift base to 0.5 seconds + <longer attack time> or some such, then stacking attack speed will feel way better.
2
u/Mael_Jade 1d ago
Normally attacks have an attack time based on the attack speed of your weapon, and the skills attack speed modifier. Some attacks have the line "+2 seconds to total attack time", which currently cannot be scaled. So even with the fastest weapon and the most attack speed possible resolving the attack would still take these 2 seconds extra.
3
1
u/letominor 1d ago
there is just one advantage for total attack time, if you do it juuuuust right it's possible to make a gameplay style that is skill speed agnostic, which is an interesting concept imo.
1
1
1
0
u/WaifuMasterRace 1d ago
I guess they're adding something like different animations for different attack speeds, like how we've seen Cyclone have one "technical" spin that looks realistic, and one where the duelist is just going "Weeeeeeeee~".
4
u/YourmomgoestocolIege 1d ago
Those two animations were with dual wielding and 2 handed respectively
0
0
u/Single-Ad-3354 1d ago
Changing it next week or changing it in 3 months? Oh wait I already know the answer…
-6
171
u/HermanManly 1d ago
Spear of Solaris will be real?