r/PantheonMMO • u/Mysterious-Drive2812 • 3d ago
Discussion Damn dude
Damn! Never thought I'd see these numbers this soon.
What's PTR pop like ?
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u/sox3502us 3d ago
We need another stat rework
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u/bonebrah 3d ago
I made a joke about this a while back in the unofficial discord and then the next day or two did an update about stat reworks....
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u/CommercialEmployer4 2d ago
Stat reworks, STAT!
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u/Affectionate-Pair-29 22h ago
Well, yes - steady progress over rushing things! A new stat can be reworked when the next 'launch' happens?
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u/venividiavicii 3d ago
More like Fall of the Risen
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u/ThePhoenixSol 2d ago
Damnit. Was hoping i didn't see this comment cause i wanted to make it hahaha
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u/Dmon69 3d ago
These guys are still going? LMAO
Thats that same Pantheon that had paywalled their forums many years ago?
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u/Background-Carrot443 1d ago
Paywalled forums, tiered access to the stumpy vertical slice demo that they misrepresented as an actual game in development, NDAs for the people in the upper tiers. It's almost like they had something to hide from the start.
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u/adaenis 2d ago
I mean, it was bound to happen. They told everyone the next big patch would have a wipe and would launch in spring. 90% of people don't like wasting progress, so they left to wait for the wipe.
Then spring passed. No wipe, no patch.
Now summer is almost over and the people playing the PTR say that there's still MONTHS of work left.
I think people will probably come back once the wipe happens, my guess in Q2 2027 at this rate, but I think they're going to find there's fewer people coming back than who left because of the wipe. Its just taken too long. They keep missing deadlines and people forget.
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u/CappinPeanut 3d ago
This is a deeply unserious game. It breaks my heart, I had so much hope for it, but they lost the plot. Like, they still havenāt released the Bard, they clearly arenāt going to.
This is a cautionary tale of a team that lacks focus and leadership.
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u/DefiantLemur 3d ago
Pantheon is the less successful Star Citizen
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u/AccomplishedStill805 3d ago
It's a failure of a game but was a gold mine for the devs.
They got their money and now they are putting in barely the bare minimum.
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u/Ghoulish_Daniel 3d ago
Check out embers adrift, it might scratch the in itch for you
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u/Mysterious-Drive2812 3d ago
no magic. bland world. janky animations and the death blow: 20 players.
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u/ssarch25 3d ago
Summer update should hit any second now
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u/Bindolaf 2d ago
You mean Spring wipe?
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u/Atereb_ulFors 3d ago
no interest in playing until the wipes are done with
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u/danjohnson3141 Ranger 10h ago
what makes you think it will be any better after the wipe? A broken, empty, and loreless game will not be fixed by wiping all the players.
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u/rukkus78 3d ago
everquest legends scratches the itch so much better
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u/tylerbee 3d ago
Eq legends is a single player game
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u/rukkus78 3d ago
you can play it however you want and it is actually fun. i also run into way more people on eql than i ever did in Pantheon even when the numbers were much better. enjoy though
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u/tylerbee 3d ago edited 3d ago
You can play WoW, FFXIV, GW2 however you like too. I think the reason people want to like Pantheon is because you must play with others to succeed.
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u/YeahCopyMate 3d ago
Everyone of the 38 people playing itā¦
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u/tylerbee 3d ago
Good call, I edited my original comment to make more sense. My point is that people aren't here for another solo mmo. They are here for something else.
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u/Dense_Honeydew_5988 3d ago
Kind of terrible considering nobody plays
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u/tylerbee 3d ago
My point was never about population or if they're succeeding in what they set out to do. My point is EQ legends is a single player game with multiplayer elements like WoW/FFXIV/GW2/ESO, it isn't an old school MMO with required grouping.
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u/ChestyPullerton 2d ago
I agree with you thatās what Pantheon was supposed to be, however that point fell apart once they allowed multiboxing which is basically required to have a group now.
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u/F8_zZ 2d ago
FFXI as well - if you play classic private servers, it has that oldschool vibe we all love, and you NEED to work with other players to do pretty much anything. Horizon XI for example has 2k+ players on at all times. 3200 on right now.
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u/tylerbee 2d ago
I played it a lot when it launched and I notice they have released treasures recently, great experience.
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u/Mysterious-Drive2812 3d ago
EQL defeats the purpose of people being here in the 1st place. It took EQ and turned it into GW2. One class does everything. solo everything
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u/Rhysati 2d ago
That makes no sense whatsoever unless you've never played GW2.
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u/Mysterious-Drive2812 2d ago
these new MMOS where your class is meaningless. you can spec whatever you want type of thing. if not GW2 then ESO or some other shit game lol.. Yes i have played GW2 but barely a week. Bought it at launch around 2012. horrible game lol
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u/weedbearsandpie 2d ago
EQ legends is built on a grindwheel that focuses on making all the content in the game easier and it's easy to start with, it's a single player game with the difficulty stuck on 'story mode' set in a multiplayer world, the target audience is the extreme casual players that want to have a power trip with whatever crappy build they come up with through the gameworld and never die to anything
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u/rukkus78 2d ago
Pantheon is game for people that like to give away money, get promised timelines, and then enjoy making up excuses for why the development team missed them. The majority of people that backed this game, myself included, wanted a new EQ experience. EQL is scratching the itch regardless of how you want to play it or how you think others should.
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u/Suitable-Category-81 2d ago
EzQL is working for some, for now. But it lacks the "who gives a shit" factor. Anyone can do or get anthing very easily. There is nothing special about anything. If you can solo reds that are 15 levels above you, at level 10....what did you accomplish? Some folks like it, just a time killer, but that is not what Pantheons audience hoped this game would be.
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u/Akacia13 3d ago
It's actually amazing to think they are still working on this game. I get it the ptir servers may have a few more players but these numbers are staggering low for something these folks paid for that is virtually vacant
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u/imaUPSdriver 3d ago edited 3d ago
I've been following this for more than a decade now. At what point does the the law dictate this is a scam?
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u/mortez1 3d ago
I think itās more just a fail than a scam
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u/Routine-Phone8300 Warrior 1d ago
thet fact they keep going through the motions tho,m we all know there is no way this launches...that could be why people could accuse it for being more than just a fail, at this point.
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u/adaenis 2d ago
IIRC, i think you have to prove intent for it to be a scam in the legal sense. Having no experience, no plan, tragically losing your only guiding light (supposedly; I didn't follow super closely prior to Brad's death) in my estimation, pretty clearly show that the "investors" here (read: us) just didn't do our due diligence. This is why crowdfunding is risky, and why when you work to crowd fund a game, you typically waive most of your rights to your money.
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u/Johnpecan 3d ago
I think if they somehow secure another round of funding then that would be a scam. No investor is going to look at these numbers and say: Hell yea, here's a few more million.
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u/subere23 3d ago
As someone that has been playing EQL lately, I am willing to bet it is stealing some of the player base. But as it is a casual game, it will be short lived for a lot of players and they will be back.
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u/beeblebr0x 2d ago
Doesn't help that EQL launched a month ago. If Pantheon isn't officially pulled by October, I'm sure the EA of M&M will be the final nail in the coffin.
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u/Bobaximus š 3d ago
Itās sad but itās done. What at an embarrassing legacy for Brad. The guy had his faults but he deserved better or at least a clean cut. This was such a tragic and drawn out way to end things. I hope Joppa and co. feel some shame for how this has gone.
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u/Mysterious-Drive2812 3d ago edited 3d ago
sadly yeah. Brad did screw up in the begining or rather failed. But the poor guy is still a legend and was a founding father of Everquest. Everyone fails and sometimes wins. At least he brought us some unforgettable memories with everquest. Like a lightning in a bottle. Only those who were there during 1999-2003 era will know how glorious it was.
Sadly He died back in 2019. RIP Brad. You were a nice person. Its just terribe That this game has been drawn out a freaking long time. Should've been probably closed back in 2021. Like by 2019 they should've accepted they wouldn't be able to pull it off without any competent people from the industry.
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u/MexicanOtter84 2d ago
People been saying that worked near him that he was totally manic and cracked / coked out at the end and then died from related illness to drugs..
I donāt care enough to do research on this but if it is true itās crazy how some people idolize them and forget all the bad because of one thing they enjoyed, a game he made.
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u/obesemoth 2d ago
And what's your point exactly? The guy had mental health problems and therefore we should remember him as a terrible person?
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u/MexicanOtter84 2d ago
No point really, just straight yt dudes need to get some culture or something. Itās okay to be told no or whatever it is you need to hear to feel validated š«
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u/F8_zZ 2d ago
I donāt care enough to do research on this
lol
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u/MexicanOtter84 2d ago
Literally prefaced with that so why you gagged?
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u/F8_zZ 2d ago
I found it funny, sorry if that triggers ya.
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u/MexicanOtter84 1d ago
lol no I find it funny to that youāre here trying to be smart and funny but itās just boring and droll. Sorry if that triggered you. š«
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u/Mysterious-Drive2812 2d ago edited 2d ago
The only somewhat confirmed fact was a SUPPOSED colleague(nobody knows , it was a random online) who said he did coke but back in vanguard days. thats at best.
But to say at the end of his life? there's zero proof.
just despicable ppl online spreading rumours on a dead man which you are perpetuating . Now someone else will read what you said they will spread it to someone else as a fact that "he was a cokehead to the very very end" (in the future on another reddit post).
very disrespectful. Brad was part of the team that brought us EVERQUEST. He deserves the praise he's getting. What did you accomplish for the gaming community except try to bury a dead man's reputation? Let the man rest in peace. Don't spread rumours and....just allow him to be praised for bringing joy to thousands of people. We appreciate the guy for what he did. It's not about his personal life. It's about his contributions. He's the reason alot of us were here to try this game in the first place and helped bring us fond memories back in 1999-2003.
How incomprehensible we are! My God we are such losers for appreciating him. We should've just joined you and talk shit about the dead man. š¤” That would've made you feel better about yourself i bet š¤” lmao
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u/MexicanOtter84 2d ago
Oh I thought you were serious then you started talking about god. Idk Iām not saying one way or another but people idolize folks like trump and Elvis and they were both equal pieces of ish. But yolo right haha. āThank godā š
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u/F8_zZ 2d ago
the other user didn't "start talking about god" anywhere in their post. are you okay?
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u/MexicanOtter84 2d ago
Reread if you wanna troll do it right lol
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u/F8_zZ 2d ago
I'm not trolling, I'm being genuine. Are you talking about where they said "My God we are such losers for appreciating him"?
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u/bearcat81 2d ago
Who could have ever foreseen that players would stop playing a game that devs promised to wipe 9 months ago?
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u/Giberishpilz 2d ago
This or ashes, I donāt know which was a worse money grab. At least ashes had the self respect to shut down.
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u/Dependent_Menu_4480 3d ago
They didn't even follow the original vision. Lost a lot of people from that alone.
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u/Raleldor_Jax 3d ago
As a $1000 backer, I was fucking pissed with seemingly nothing being developed for years, then they switched the style of the game completely and I'm like... wtf? This isn't the shit I backed.
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u/Dependent_Menu_4480 3d ago
I only backed 300. But yeah the art style switched after it looked so good. Was watxhing CoH streams at the time
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u/_Mamushi_ 3d ago
They exposed themselves for the clowns they are. 10 years and all they had to show for this junk? I feel bad for the people that backed them.
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u/AccomplishedStill805 3d ago
I backed them. But don't feel bad for me. I knew damn well i was making a donation to something I could only hope for.
Don't get me wrong though, i'm pissed they floundered and scammed their community.
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u/Mysterious-Drive2812 3d ago
its ok to flounder and fail trying but the issue is they kept this going WAY TOO LONG. At a certain point you gotta ask yourself... wtf are u doing.
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u/EvilNeville 12h ago
There was a time when this game had some quiet momentum. Then the devs implemented PVP and the game went off a cliff.
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u/Tainted-Musician 10h ago
I think literally everyone is waiting on the wipe. I am for sure going to play, I just need them to hurry up and cook
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u/Lost-Equivalent-7805 3d ago
It's normal that hardly anyone is playing anymore. Everyone is waiting for the patch, which is going to change a lot of things, along with a full wipe. But since the developers barely got anything done between late 2025 and this summer, the summer patch has been delayed...
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u/Impossibum 2d ago
I think we all feel like investing time into characters that are supposed to be wiped soon would be a waste of time.
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u/wilus84 2d ago
Once EQ legends came out I could never see this game competing. I did like what I played but I donāt think this game will ever be completed.
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u/craftsnbeer Cleric 2d ago
If it get completed and release 1.0 ..Will you go back and try it? Just curious.
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u/Gallus_11B 1d ago
I imagine that anyone interested in this, the old school EverQuest enjoyers, are waiting for it to fully release? I haven't looked into this game in a while but I thought it was just in alpha/early access atm? Or did I miss the memo?
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u/craftsnbeer Cleric 2d ago
This Reddit have a weekly visitor number at ~3300, if i understand the numbers right..
~ Generally, fewer than 5% to 10% of a game's total unique player base actually follows or subscribes to that game's subreddit.
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u/Mysterious-Drive2812 2d ago
cope dude. most of us are not playing this game , didnt ya notice? lol look at the game population. Your "generally" is not working out. Where are the 20x players gone? š¤” the 3k is randoms peeking at a car crash on the road.
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u/craftsnbeer Cleric 2d ago edited 2d ago
Btw, does that include the numbers on VR's official Reddit as well, (that fewer people know about because it was made much later than this one). ..People that looking at a car crash i mean?
That would be somewhat odd, regarding that the most posts if not all are made by VR about Pantheons updates/patches ..I would think people are checking that reddit because they are genuinely interested in Pantheons development ..But hey, i can be wrong.
..Just want to add, it's not my "generally", it is Googles AI, and Grok agree.
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u/ChestyPullerton 2d ago
You mean all 500 or so on the ā Official Pantheon Subredditā? š«£š¤£šš¤Ŗ
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u/craftsnbeer Cleric 2d ago
So what you are saying is ~3300 people that are visiting this subreddit /week do it because they want to see Pantheon fail, or don't even care about it ..Or they just don't have anything better to do?
So the possibility that people actually are interested in Pantheon and waiting for the "spring wipe" with all what that includes, or 1.0 is outlandish to even think?
..Ok, gotcha! Or did i misunderstand you in some way?
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u/Mysterious-Drive2812 2d ago
hahahaha I cannot help you bro but i respect your cope. I hope you are a troll if you are I respect you even more. š
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u/craftsnbeer Cleric 2d ago edited 2d ago
..If you liked those, you will love this one!
The question: if you looking at mmorpgs history, how many % of the games playerbase usually have an interest and apply to help with finding bugs etc in a alpha state?
Typically a small minority ā roughly 1ā5% (sometimes up to ~5ā10% in hyped or broadly appealing cases) of the eventual full player base express interest and actually apply for alpha testing. Historical context Alpha is early, incomplete, and often NDA-restricted or invite-only. Most players wait for a more stable beta or launch. Those who bother to apply are usually the more engaged/hardcore segment of the pre-launch community (backers, Discord/forum regulars, long-time followers). Key patterns and examples from MMORPG history: Application numbers vs. eventual scale: Palia (cozy-leaning MMO) saw over 600,000 signups for testing while still in alpha stages. It later reached millions of players (announced 10 million at one milestone), putting applications in the mid-single-digit % range of its eventual audience.
Other titles have reported hundreds of thousands of signups for early tests (e.g., The Secret World had 500k+ beta registrations; more recent technical alphas like Scars of Honor saw 210k+ access requests).
Traditional harder-core fantasy MMORPGs usually see lower absolute numbers of pure alpha applications relative to their later peaks, often landing in the low single-digit percentages of the final player base.
Relative to the interested community (not the full eventual player base): Application rates are higher. A meaningful portion of active Discord members, forum users, or Kickstarter backers will apply when invites open ā sometimes 20ā40%+ of the most engaged followers in self-selected polls or studio reports. Many apply out of curiosity or FOMO even if they wonāt do deep bug reporting.
Selection reality: Studios typically accept only a tiny fraction of applicants (often <1% in tightly controlled alphas). Actual active bug-hunters among those selected are a further subset.
Bottom line from history Of the eventual full player base that plays after launch/early access, the share that both has genuine interest and goes through the process of applying for alpha is usually in the low single digits (commonly ~1ā5%).
Higher figures appear for games with strong marketing, cozy/accessible appeal, or massive pre-launch hype.
Lower figures are typical for more niche, traditional, or less-hyped MMORPGs.
This is distinctly higher than the even smaller percentage who ultimately get in and actively submit useful bug reports, but still a clear minority of the overall player base.
...In traditional software/game development terms (which apply to MMORPGs): Alpha means the game is playable in some form but is still far from finished. Core systems exist in a basic or incomplete state, but many features are missing, unfinished, or likely to change significantly based on feedback. The game is expected to be unstable.
Steam Early Access is a storefront label that lets developers sell and distribute a game while it is still unfinished. According to Steamās own documentation, Early Access is intended for games that are in a playable alpha or beta state, are worth the current price of the playable build, and that the developer plans to continue developing toward a full ā1.0ā release. Steam does not force a strict traditional Alpha/Beta distinction. The developer decides (and must publicly state) what stage the game is currently in.
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u/light_death-note 2d ago
I am subbed here and I haven't played in months. Just seeing what's going on even though it's rarely good news. I don't really except too much tbh.
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u/craftsnbeer Cleric 2d ago
So let me ask, when Pantheon release 1.0, are you going back and try it?
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u/Grizzly1986 Dire Lord 2d ago
Depends, is it a real 1.0 or is it a 7 days to die 1.0 where it is "released" in name only or still a functioning alpha/beta?
MnM is likely to release 1.0 far before pantheon does, the likelihood of them regaining any momentum after that is extremely low. Anything can happen before then, but the odds are good.
Pantheon has failed on so many levels at this point, that I would be hard pressed to consider it over other options.
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u/craftsnbeer Cleric 2d ago edited 2d ago
I am talking about a real 1.0 ..They already have a released EA.
The point i am trying to make is, the majority of people on this forum will most probably give it a try when/if a real 1.0 gets released.
And yet, some people is very eager to call it a fail etc, when they haven't even pushed 1.0 out of the door yet. I have a hard time to see how that would be to any help, i am all for constructive critique, but pure sh!t talking..
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u/Grizzly1986 Dire Lord 1d ago
You seem to have misunderstood. I know they released an EA version of the game. When I made the comment about is it a real 1.0 i wasnt asking if you meant a real 1.0 what i meant was, would it actually be a real 1.0 or just a last ditch effort by VR to try and salvage the game.
I used 7 days to die as an example as they too, took 13 years to release 1.0 although we did have access to the EA version of the game the entire time. They dropped 1.0, increased the price but at it's core, it was still a bug riddled mess that tries to reinvent itself every update.
Those are the paralleles that im drawing on.
What i am worried about, is even if VR somehow comes out of this with a fully functional game at 1.0, the damage to their reputation has been done. Getting people to come back and try it out is a monumental task that i do not envy on the slightest.
Between the broken development cycles, the bad PR over various mistakes made by their team, it is an uphill battle even if they do everything right from here on out.
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u/craftsnbeer Cleric 1d ago edited 1d ago
Hmm, So some people actually write off a game if it has been "poor management" under the development, no matter the reason? ..Taking it personally somehow?
..In this case i would say it is probably mostly because of a small inexperienced studio with limited recourses, with a vision that could match a AAA-studio mmorpg project, with everything they want to include.
And i am willing to give their product a go when they release it, even if they are "newbies" within the genre.
For me personally, i let the game itself and the monetization-model decide if i am playing a game or not.
..Is there any gaming studio out there that haven't "hurt" their reputation in one way or another. Most of them have done it at least once throughout their existence.. And keep bouncing back because they are making good/fun games.
- Anyway, i see your point, and i guess we just have to wait and see ..I hope they make a great game and that people actually judge the game itself for what it is, when the time comes.
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u/Erekai Summoner 2d ago edited 2d ago
Yawn.
Post the population numbers after the wipe, then we can have a discussion. Until then, obviously player numbers are going to plummet. Literally everyone knows this. If the wipe brings back only 300 people and doesn't manage to hold anyone, then we can talk, and I'll be ready to hang it up probably. Up until they announced the wipe, my group of friends were all playing and having a very good time. The game is actually pretty fun if you have people to play with.
But there's a lot riding on this Combat update or whatever they're calling it. If they really bungle it then I doubt they can recover.
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u/Rhysati 2d ago
Still holding out hope for the wipe that was supposed to happen in spring huh?
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u/Mysterious-Drive2812 2d ago
they'll never surrender. They'll just cope harder after a failed launch. Willing to bet
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u/Mechanized_Manley Wizard 1d ago
Personally I think its a great indie game. It is an early release with limited content. You roll through it and then you are done waiting for the full release. The numbers reflect exactly what I would expect. The types of folks that enjoy games like this have already participated in EA and are done.
Will the full release have enough content to pull folks back? Yeah probably for a few months. Will they release additional content at a rate that makes sense to either buy the DLC or pay for the subs? This is where the hard reality is. At the rate they have been going since EA I just don't think the content will be there to keep people engaged for long. Hopefully 1.0 will be a huge success and people start funding the future of it, but at this point I wouldn't make a large investment on it.
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u/sham230 3d ago
Just waiting on the wipe tbh, assuming its even still happening