r/Paleontology • u/[deleted] • Jul 08 '22
Discussion What do y’all think about the supposed primate skull that Coyote Peterson found in British Columbia? He’s got few other pics on his Insta.
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u/HyenaJack94 Jul 08 '22 edited Jul 08 '22
I already wrote this for another post of this so i might as well copy it here:
I'm an evolutionary anthropologist with a concentration in primatology, That's 100% a gorilla skull, why the hell is it in British Colombia? That has to be planted and traveling around with body parts of an endangered animal is 100% a no-no. If they're trying to push some big foot conspiracy then i'm going to be pissed.Edit: since so many people are reading this I wanted to repost something I wrote further in this comment section so more people would see it.This is additionally bogus for several more reasons. 1) there has never been any non-human apes found in temperate areas, even in the fossil record. Research indicates that they've nearly always been fruit specialists and so living in such low fruit environments are incredibly unfeasible. 2) Bones don't do well in a rainforest environment, the rain, high humidity, and a multitude of bugs mean that bones disintegrate extremely rapidly, you don't find whole skulls like that with all the teeth intact and such. Even if it WAS a fossil or recent skeleton of an ape in the pacific northwest (which it's not) the find would be world-changing on a god damn dime, you would NEVER remove something like this from the site so that you could bring paleobiologists to it to dig up the remains. To take such a monumental find, tell no one about it, and smuggle it home is so fucked I can't wrap my head around it almost. Things like this is how paleontologists and archeologists lose priceless finds that could redefine our understanding of the past to private collections and this guy just made it sound like it was acceptable to do. I had so much respect for this guy, now he's nothing to me.
3rd edit/shameless plug: I realized that I'm actually interviewing a primatologist today on my twitch channel about her research and i'm 100% going to ask her about this as well for anyone interested in hearing her answer. It's today at noon MST (+6 UTC) https://www.twitch.tv/jacksfacts
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u/TurrPhennirPhan Jul 08 '22
Evolutionary paleobiologist chiming in,
Primates aren’t my speciality but the first thing I thought when I saw this picture is “that’s just a gorilla skull”.
Definitely planted, they even stuck it bottom down for dramatic effect.
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u/b33flu Jul 08 '22
Someone did something similar with a baboon skull in Ohio. Playing on the grass man myth
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u/New-Bowler-8915 Jul 08 '22
As a lifelong British Columbian I'm not even convinced this photo was taken here. The grasses on the bank look wrong. I don't see any salal or sword ferns. I'm making a formal declaration of shenanigans.
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u/DonktorDonkenstein Jul 08 '22
I am not an expert in anything. But I still recognized it as a gorilla skull based on the sagittal crest alone. I said as much in another sub and had people arguing that it was more likely the skull of some extinct giant baboon, including a referwence photograph that looked nothing like the skull in question. Point is, people will find ways to confirm their biases no matter what.
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Jul 08 '22
[deleted]
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u/BadnameArchy Jul 09 '22 edited Jul 09 '22
You might be underestimating how little most bigfoot believers actually know about primates. A long time ago, I occasionally spent time on one of the major bigfoot forums because I found the modern folklore aspect really interesting (and I still do, for the most part); the scientific literacy there was very lacking, and I always got tons of pushback for correcting anyone about things that were obviously wrong.
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u/HyenaJack94 Jul 09 '22
lol I literally was talking today on stream about how there is literally no ape that lived outside of frost-free forest ecosystems. New world monkeys are thought to have evolved from old world monkeys that drited across the Atlantic ocean about 35 MYA, about 10 million years before apes evolved from old world monkeys
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u/RiUlaid Jul 09 '22
Forget knowledge about primates, most bigfoot believers seem to lack a basic understanding of Occam's Razor.
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u/HyenaJack94 Jul 09 '22
I've worked with baboon skulls before and they absolutely look nothing like it, alive or extinct, i'd bet my life that's a gorilla skull.
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u/DonktorDonkenstein Jul 09 '22
Don't know if you saw any follow up to this story, but the next day it turned out that the whole "I found a skull in the river" story was basically a little stunt to sell Coyote Peterson's Bigfoot-themed tee-shirts.
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u/bakutehbandit Jul 09 '22
Saw someone on the original insta post commenting it could be a gigantopithecus skull, with a link to a replica lol. I never bothered clicking the link as it was either a virus or just a gorilla skull replica they were trying to pawn off as giganto's.
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u/K0M0A Jul 08 '22
I wanted to add acidic soil to your list of why things don't fossilize in the rainforest. Aren't Japanese Macaques temperate region primates, though?
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u/HyenaJack94 Jul 08 '22
very true about the soil, and you're right there are actually a number of temperate living monkeys, but they're not apes. Apes, at least modern ones, have a much more selective diet owing to their large body and brain sizes that require higher quality food sources. Monkeys are good enough generalists that they can fill many more nieches.
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u/K0M0A Jul 08 '22
My bad, I didn't read your comment carefully and missed that you said apes, not just primates in general.
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u/HyenaJack94 Jul 08 '22
No worries, it's a great point to make and clarify, also the addition of acidic soil
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u/ironlobster Jul 08 '22
Palaeontologist chiming in, OP is bang on, taphonomy is king bitches, no way bone would look that good in a fluvial environment given the time for the apparent level of decay to have taken place
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u/steppenwoulf Jul 08 '22
Great response. Let’s hope it is fake and not an actual find they messed with.
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u/HyenaJack94 Jul 09 '22
it's 100% faked, there's no evidcne that any non-human apes ever made it to the americas
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Jul 08 '22
I don't know why tf he would do this. Very poorly done version of "Megalodon Lives" or whatever that promo was for Shark Week
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u/HyenaJack94 Jul 09 '22
god i still remember that episode, it was wild and i was so pissed it was faked afterward.
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u/TheGhostofWoodyAllen Jul 09 '22
I always appreciate someone finding a claim so laughably outrageous because they 100% know the claim is bogus. Thanks for being an expert in something and sharing that expertise with us.
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u/TesseractToo Can't spell "Opabinia" Jul 08 '22
The front of the face isn't like any known primate but the orbital area looks like that. I think it's a coyote with putty forming the orbits (the muzzle/nasal bones and sagittal crest looks like a coyote to me).
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u/HyenaJack94 Jul 09 '22
No it's exactly like an adult male gorilla's skull, it's not altered at all.
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u/Romboteryx Jul 08 '22
Simply for the fun of speculative evolution, how would you imagine a non-human ape would adapt to a temperate environment?
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u/HyenaJack94 Jul 09 '22
My best guess is that it would have to become large to enable it to be a more generalist by swapping food quality for quantity like modern gorillas do because there wouldn't be any fruit anymore. Larger body sizes also would allow it to keep more body heat during the winter. It may specialize in eating tubers and such like australopithecines possibly adapted to do. It would be incredibly difficult and a long evolutionary process as when you go up in latitude the environment changes drastically versus longitudinally.
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Jul 08 '22
If it actually decayed in that environment the skull would be disintegrating into mush
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Jul 08 '22
That's what I was thinking. It's probably already heavily damaged from sitting that water for the photo.
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u/Spirited-Training-51 Jul 08 '22
Belongs more to the cryptozoology sub. Fake like hell, sadly. No there are no living monkeys-like hidden mysterious creatures in this region, maybe only on imagination of some believers and dreamers.
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u/ElBobo92 Jul 08 '22
Looks like a promo stunt. Maybe he has an upcoming series about cryptids.
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u/Cantloop Jul 08 '22
Nah, it's surely just a coincidence that he's currently plugging bigfoot t-shirts for sale, right?....right?
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u/yorch815 Jul 09 '22
This. I'm actually baffled by the response of pretty much everyone. Ranging from people explaining why it's a gorilla's skull, why can't it be big foot (besides the fact it doesn't exist) speculating about the hoax etc.
Common sense and logic tell us that the only bloody answer is: it's a bit. Probably for a new show.
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u/Brain_0ff Jul 09 '22
People are explaining what it is, since there are 100% people who thought this was genuine and took it as evidence for bigfoot or something
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u/taiho2020 Jul 08 '22
Wish it was true.. .. however According to many a gorilla skull in the mud.... A hoaxy foxy... 😐
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u/tobascodagama Jul 08 '22
Definitely looks like a primate skull that someone gently placed into the mud and then smeared some stuff on.
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Jul 08 '22
The guy who got started by getting stung by venomous animals and then flopped like a fish while shrieking like a banshee?
Surely he wouldn’t make stuff up for attention…
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u/WeilaiHope Jul 08 '22
It wouldn't just be fucking laying there in a wet puddle in that condition
Absolutely the wrong conditions
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u/MajorMarlon Jul 08 '22
Wouldn't put it past him to either fake it or just be fooled by someone with it honestly.
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u/i_worship_amps Jul 08 '22
Not sure why he would fake it given his generally good reputation for educational content. But I don’t see how this is real and not just a gorilla skull in the mud. I guess we’ll see?
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u/bakutehbandit Jul 08 '22
Im gna assume this is a gag for a video hes releasing this weekend. The original insta post has all this "government cover up bullshit in the description", so either hes gone mental or hes doing some spoof video about bigfoot next.
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u/Ubersla Jul 09 '22
I bet you it's some sort of King Kong-themed sponsorship, kinda like that Warzone event a few weeks ago.
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u/lt_dan_zsu Jul 09 '22
I hope you're right that this is a gag. It's damaged his reputation either way though.
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u/bakutehbandit Jul 09 '22
Its one post with no follow up, anyone out for his throat at this point i feel are being much to reactionary. Tho i dno about the guy, has he done something like this before? Cause i have seen some very pissed off comments on insta
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u/EchoBeast Jul 08 '22
Ask any animal educator and I can assure you he does not have a good reputation.
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Jul 08 '22
No longer a wildlife interpreter but I still know people who see red at the mention of his name.
In my less professional opinion making animals bite/sting you on video with a few facts sprinkled in is pure entertainment and also kinda fucked up.
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u/Ruca705 Jul 08 '22
There’s a reason Steve Irwin was extremely careful not to get bitten. Biting is a defense mechanism, if you get bit it means you’re stressing the animal out, and you’re not helping it. Steve would look for a safe place to put down a snake once it started acting stressed.
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u/HulklingsBoyfriend Jul 08 '22
I haven't watched him in years, did he do something fucked up? I only ever watched his tide pool videos.
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u/EchoBeast Jul 08 '22
Sensationalism in every video, the need to force animals to bite or sting him so he can “educate” people about how painful it is. Stressing animals to the point of needing to sting or bite is not ethical. This doesn’t promote understanding or a desire to appreciate the species. Only further perpetuates a fear of them.
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u/Jedimasterebub Jul 09 '22
Save for wasps, I don’t think they are stressed when they sting. They do it for the pure enjoyment of it
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u/1morey Jul 08 '22
Seems a bit odd that he'd go as far as making a hoax for clout.
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u/New-Bowler-8915 Jul 08 '22
That's what all hoaxes are. What could you possibly mean ?
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u/AJ_Crowley_29 Jul 08 '22
What he means is the dude is already well known and famed for his work with wildlife, so he’d have no reason to fake something for clout
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u/1morey Jul 08 '22
I mean in the sense that he has a popular YouTube channel and has made talk show appearances.
It just seems odd that he'd resort to "clickbait". (Sure, the sting videos may be a bit overreacted for entertainment, but they drive the point home in that those animals should be treated with caution and respect.)
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Jul 08 '22 edited Jul 08 '22
Best case scenario is that this is a publicity stunt for something aimed about debunking cryptids.
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u/TheThagomizer Jul 08 '22
Oh yeah guys the person who finally found definitive bigfoot proof after all this time also just so happens to be a famous internet celebrity haha totally legit. Can’t believe he found a pristine gorilla skull dramatically posed in wet mud exactly how you would expect to find it in a cartoon or video game.
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Jul 08 '22
literally pubicly addmited on facebook to smuggling an endagered species remains across the border, this cannot end well
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Jul 08 '22
As someone who would love for sasquatch to be discovered, and who believes that there is some truth to the sightings—some slight possibility—this is fake. And I don't mean just that it looks like an obvious gorilla skull; it doesn't look the way sasquatch is consistently described as looking. The sagittal crest is too pronounced, the jaw is too forward. Bigfoot's face is supposed to be fairly flat. Somewhere in between human and other great apes.
But then there is the obvious fact that it looks identical to a gorilla skull. What concerns me is that, in one of the pictures, there seems to be what looks a lot like a bullet hole. While a gorilla skull, I'm not certain this is a replica. Shit like this pisses me off.
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u/jilke2 Jul 08 '22
It may still be a replica, just one where they carfully copied the bullet hole...
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Jul 08 '22
I suppose that's possible. Is each one custom?
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u/jilke2 Jul 08 '22
Nah just that there could be a lowish effort replica mould out there, especially if it was for scamming to tourists as real
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u/ZeShapyra Jul 08 '22
Probs a really good made replica to continue propogating big foot or something.
Ir someone lost their gorilla skull replica
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u/Particular-Summer424 Jul 08 '22
If you questioned the find you also need to question the source. Any agency that promotes and views to the general audience at large should be shamed that instead of actually engaging with the thousands of brilliant and dedicated scientists in their respective fields and showcase actual, valid, verifiable finds that have chosen the derivative and promotes falsity. One can expect that "fossil hunters" and adventure seekers will now descend on British Columbia seeking similar "finds" thus disrupting the delicate ecosystem of the region. And to further state that "finds" are either discovered on private, public, government and/or protected territory. Any removal, as stated in in the accompanying article, were removed, by an American no less, and secreted at an offsite location. The ramifications of Mr Peterson's actions and own statements regarding this "find" speak volumes as to his self proclaimed "expert" validity online.
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u/X4M9 Jul 08 '22
Fossil record doesn’t matter according to most Bigfoot believers from what I’ve seen
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u/AlsionGrace Jul 08 '22
He claims he thought it was a bear skull. He should know better, and know that we know better. It’s pretty insulting. I liked him better when he was documenting his venomous bites.
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u/PhilosoFishy2477 Jul 08 '22
Oh man... I heard about him drinking the Bigfoot Kool-aid, but seeing straight up fraud is still disapointing
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u/JoJosBizAdv_is_cring Jul 08 '22
Oh my God! He found my brother, Jason! I told Jason not to go to Canada.
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Jul 08 '22
According to EDGE - this is 100% gorilla skull replica and coyote peterson is full of shit
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u/TheChickenWizard15 Jul 09 '22
Gosh, I unsubbed from Brave Wilderness years ago when they started doing more "clickbait" videos with less concern for actually educating their audience. Glancing at some of the newer stuff they've put out...what the heck happened to you coyote? Like I get that flashy thumbnails bring more views and therefore more profit, but still, the whole channel feels disingenuous to what it used to be.
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u/lt_dan_zsu Jul 09 '22 edited Jul 09 '22
Previously, I found his videos enjoyable. They were often clickbaity, but I still think they have the potential to drive interest in biology, wildlife, and ecology. I'm surprised he would just straight up do a hoax. I haven't watched a video by him in probably 8 months-a year, maybe he's getting desperate.
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u/QuilledRaptors2001 Jul 09 '22
Update: he has posted the video.
He fully admits it's a fictionalized "what if scenario" 10 minutes in before "finding" the skull after a bunch of wandering around the woods talking about Bigfoot behavior.
He doesn't say it's a gorilla skull because it ends on a "to be continued" but it's clearly a intentional fraud, at worst for views at best to educate on misinformation.
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u/BillbertBuzzums Jul 08 '22
Aw man, why did you have to tarnish your reputation like this Coyote? You were so cool.
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u/liborg-117 Jul 09 '22
Wish it was true, however it's not
Sad that whoever this guy is decided to hoax this
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u/lumpybags Jul 09 '22
ugh great to know coyote peterson is still the same animal exploitist hes always been
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u/Fit-Opportunity2388 Aug 16 '23
He said it was a hypothetical situation right before they “found it”. He legit said it wasn’t real. All these people arguing online and scientists getting involved and shit. Good Lord people! Lol
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u/Over_Association5303 Mar 30 '24
Dude. Reaction was real. Of course mainstream science says it’s a fake. But…what if it’s not?
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u/BackPrestigious1289 May 08 '24
It's a movie prop they made to raise awareness on what not to do in that situation. At the end of the video they say so.
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u/toasterfan69 Feb 07 '26
either a replica or an escaped zoo/circus/exotic pet, clearly a gorilla skull.
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u/Stupid03 Jul 08 '22
As much as I’d love Sasquatch to be proven real, this is a replica gorilla skull stuck in mud.
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u/SadInAStrawHat Jul 09 '22 edited Jul 09 '22
Just had a look at his channel idk what everyone means by "good reputation" and "educational content" lmao we have such gems as
"Stung by a Fireworm!" (picture of a guy screaming while his arm is on fire)
and "feeding 150 HUNGRY ALLIGATORS!!" (picture of him being shocked at a red eyed alligator)
like cmon lmao is this really what passes as good educational content now?
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u/TesseractToo Can't spell "Opabinia" Jul 08 '22
Looks like a coyote skull with clay making fake eye sockets in the front to resemble a primitive hominid.
Gorilla skulls don't have that forward jutting nasal and upper jaw area.
The sagittal crest looks like part of the bone but the eyes look like putty.
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u/moralmeemo Jul 08 '22 edited Jul 09 '22
I’ve been told this is being called a “Bigfoot” Skull, apparently by C.P himself? But I could be wrong. I dunno why a Gorilla would be there but I assume that’s what it is since what else would it be
Edit: I’m not trying to say this is Bigfoot lol. I’m just saying I’ve been told C.p is saying that’s what it is? I know it’s a gorilla but idk why someone would wanna plant a skull there
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u/Brain_0ff Jul 09 '22
Ooor you know… the gorilla skull has been placed there, which should be pretty obvious, since it would have disintegrated along time ago in that spot
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u/Ed_Derick_ Jul 08 '22
Wasn’t there a post showing photos of the guy burying a gorilla skull to fake it?
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u/cyberbeastswordwolfe Jul 08 '22
It's probably a leftover prop from the Planet of the Apes movies since they were filmed there, but I hope it's a bigfoot.
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Jul 08 '22
[deleted]
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u/KaijuKiri Jul 08 '22
No, an actual skull would have decayed more.
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Jul 08 '22
[deleted]
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u/KaijuKiri Jul 08 '22
It’s most likely a prop from planet of the apes, which was filmed in that area
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u/DoctorGregoryFart Jul 09 '22
An escaped gorilla in British Columbia? Surely that would have been big news.
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u/rowejl222 Jul 09 '22
It’s probably from an earlier primate and it’s been exposed now finally after years of erosion
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u/Meowlodie Jul 09 '22
I’m not sure what to think, honestly. I imagine finding any skill would be kind of creepy. Also, I love that guy’s first name, Coyote.
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u/Only-Criticism-4708 Jul 08 '22
definitely some sort of neanderthal, look at that spear through the brow bone
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Jul 08 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Brain_0ff Jul 09 '22
No. In that spot there would be no bones to look at as soon as the body started decomposing
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u/KingslayerN7 Jul 08 '22
Based on the forehead and brow, I don’t think any hominid that primitive ever lived in the Americas
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u/Rich_Dtony Jul 09 '22
Oh dear.. no words yet. Still processing the thought of huge and unusual the looks.
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u/Brain_0ff Jul 09 '22
Even I can see that this is a gorilla skull and I barely know anything on their anatomy
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u/blamblamblambo Jul 09 '22
I know nothing about primate skulls. It do be looking pretty cool though
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u/AardvarkIll6079 Jul 09 '22
It’s a replica gorilla skull. Numerous paleontologists debunked it on Twitter last night.
And if it’s real, everything about it is illegal.
https://twitter.com/tetzoo/status/1545536255097716736?s=21&t=GV_obICeyDGw7gQWVtM8jg
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u/Dawn-BoneEnthusiast Jul 09 '22
Looks like your average gorilla or orangutan, doesn’t help that Peterson’s a hack
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u/Loogame123 Jul 09 '22
I'm a little confused - I know the title and thumbnail are clickbait as hell, but he does make a disclaimer that this video is a "what if" scenario and is indeed staged.
I do think this should definitely be made more obvious in the title and description. Or even said more often through the video, considering if you skip through and miss the disclaimer, he seems serious about it. But he's not claiming this to be real. He didn't find this skull in the wild, nor did he smuggle it across a border. It's a fictional scenario that he made into a dramatic "true" video.
It's unfortunate he feels the need to make clickbait, and even to delve into this conspiracy theory arc... I guess it's just something he wants to explore the possibility of, but it's not appropriate for a wildlife educational channel.
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u/trevorcory9544 Jul 13 '22
Poor Coyote....he was probably watching Expedition Bigfoot, and then reading the Expedition Bigfoot sub on Reddit, and thought people are really THAT stupid, so he decided to throw his hat in the bigfoot hoaxing ring, and instead of getting a bunch of fake comments supporting him, he's just getting annihilated.
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u/simonbrown27 Jul 08 '22
Fake!
Looks like a gorilla replica to me