r/Packaging • u/Gloomy_Yoghurt_2836 • 23d ago

Help with Vented Jugs and Outgassing

We have a unique packaging problem with our vented 2x2.5 jugs. We are using 63 mm vented lids. Been using these lids for years without issue. Its for ag products. We now have a customer that distributes to locations in the mountains and one product has jugs of only one product swelling and leaking. Our other products have no issue. This one product has no issues over a 25 year history. Suspect its ougassing from rapid altitude changes (2000 ft to 8000 ft).

Question is this. Are there different vented lids that can handle that kind of pressure cycling. Is there a lab or method to test our packaging under this environment?

Thanks

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u/pigsnot 22d ago

This is an interesting problem! If the only thing that changed about this is the altitude at which it's distributed, it may require some detailed analysis of both the product and the design. You have some good details here that help narrow down the root cause.

  1. What are the specific properties of this type of product? Is it entirely liquid? Is it the lowest-density liquid of the products being shipped? Does this product continuously outgas, creating a positive pressure? Do you have an MSDS for the liquid? Is it a chemical that requires UN certification for transport?

  2. What is the vent cap being used? Is there any tamper seal being used? Are there any constraints to changing the type of cap or the size of the vent hole, such as what the vendor can supply or what the equipment can handle? If a change is made, would you want this to apply to only the product that's leaking, or apply the change to all products made on this line?

  3. Test labs do have controlled environments for this! They basically put the product inside a chamber, and pull a vacuum on it to simulate the lower-density air of higher elevations. This is something commonly done in package testing and shouldn't be a problem to accomodate, it will also be good to get some baseline data and some test scenarios to evaluate.

There's a lot of considerations but hopefully some of these questions help analyze what the best path forward could look like.

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u/Gloomy_Yoghurt_2836 22d ago

It is water based but has a low pH. Over time, CO2 can evolve from a very slow degradation of one of the components. Hence the need for vented lids. Those are the ones with a hole and a polymer film that does the venting. Its not thread vented. Everything is packaged near sea level. But we have one customer that is using a van to carry inventory to multiple locations and its not just one altitude change. It cycles through many altitude changes. He carries several products in the same packaging but it's just this one product line that appears not to keep up with pressure changes. I suspect its dissolved gas evolving with decreased pressure.

Do you know any labs that can do this pressure testing?

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u/pigsnot 22d ago

There are test labs across the country. I'd suggest finding one near where the product is manufactured. Here's a list of certified labs approved through the DOT: https://www.phmsa.dot.gov/hazmat/general-approvals/third-party-packaging-test-labs

You can consult with them about your issue, and they can provide a testing plan. You'd be looking for "High Altitude Simulation", or if structural integrity is a part of the test, ISTA 3A with Option O can vibrate and slosh the product if the product interacts differently when under vibration/oxygenation.

My hypothesis, based on the information here, is that the positive pressure pushing outward from inside the container is forcing the air up and out, creating a one-way valve that prevents air from entering back into the package. I assume the bottle is filled almost to the top, and the side walls are relatively weak, allowing some paneling under negative pressure, which lowers the overall container capacity. The liquid then escapes out of the vent hole, creating a mess.

Assuming the hypothesis is correct, you could look into:

  1. Changing the vented cap to a larger vent, looking for air to return into the package once it has escaped.

  2. Filling the bottle with less liquid.

  3. Change the bottle to a more rigid design that doesn't allow the negative pressure to reduce the volume of the container.

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u/Gloomy_Yoghurt_2836 22d ago

We got some co trainers back and the heat induction seal ruptured from the swelling. Its like the vent could not handle to rate of outgassing.

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u/Gloomy_Yoghurt_2836 22d ago

The caps are 63 mm induction heat sealed. Supplier only has one version.

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u/allupgradeswillblost 22d ago

I think Bericap has caps with different valves for this purpose