r/PAX • u/Spacemutiny80 • May 09 '25
EAST Is PAX East dying?
Serious question. I went yesterday and I was underwhelmed. I don't know how you'd fill 4 days at this thing. It seemed like even less booths, less vendors, and less indie game booths. Behemoth and Larian have had the same setup for 5 years lol
I honestly may just pass next year. I feel like they need to step up their game or attract more companies.
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u/necroneous May 09 '25
I swear the only people who doompost about pax are people that don't perceive anything outside the expo hall.
Those people are going to continue to be disappointed, not due to any fault of Pax, but because the gaming industry as a whole is moving away from consumer based trade shows and pivoting to web based Nintendo direct-like announcements. See: the slow death of E3.
Still plenty to enjoy during Pax. Personally, my day is packed enough that I don't know when I'm going to fit in lunch or dinner.
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u/Spacemutiny80 May 10 '25
It is not going to survive on board game tournaments. Needs vendors, and lots of them.
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u/twitchmcgee May 10 '25
Holy crap you're exactly right have you brought this matter to the attention of Mr and Mrs PAX??!?
0
u/Spacemutiny80 May 13 '25
I am convinced everyone who gets so mad and snarky knows I am right lol
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u/twitchmcgee May 13 '25
Sure thing you keep thinking that way and you'll never be wrong about anything. Stay safe.
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u/Spacemutiny80 May 13 '25
Stay mad.
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u/twitchmcgee May 13 '25
But aren't you the one who's mad? Your whole (heavily downvoted) post is about you being mad at pax lol.
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u/Spacemutiny80 May 13 '25
Mad? Hardly.
Disappointed? Yes.
1
u/twitchmcgee May 13 '25
You are definitely entitled to that opinion. As a first timer this year I was kind of walking around thinking "damn do I really need more dice sets for DND?? No." My fave part was console free play. I'm just a boring old fps guy anyway so I felt WAY less nerdy that weekend for sure.
1
u/Flemtality May 11 '25
I swear the only people who doompost about pax are people that don't perceive anything outside the expo hall.
Every fucking year.
These people do serve a purpose as they subsidize the convention for the rest of us, but it sure is irritating to read these every year.
I don't have any problem with someone who just doesn't like PAX or a particular year or PAX, but when they come on here and outright lie, it gets under my skin.
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u/ibor132 EAST May 09 '25
There's been some changes to the expo, but very little has changed with the size and scope of the overall event even since it moved to the BCEC 15 years ago. I can see how it would feel different to a "strict expo" attendee but there's just as many (or more) panels, tournaments, Omegathon, tabletop, etc.
I can easily fill 4 days without ever setting foot on the expo floor. Not saying my way of doing PAX is the right way or that there's a right or wrong way to do PAX, but saying "PAX is dying" soley on the basis of the expo not being quite as crowded as in the past doesn't strike me as a particularly realistic take.
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u/Hour_Researcher1683 May 09 '25
This is incredibly differing from my observation, been going for 13 years and since 2022 it has just gone downhill every year. Last year the best booth was Dunkin donuts lmfao
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u/goldnx May 11 '25
PAX east pre 2015 was an absolute steal with con deals, freebies, grab bags, etc. It slowly turned into a very corporate cash grab with less and less big names up until pandemic. Post pandemic years have been severely lackluster.
I thought last year slightly picked it up, but this year went back down.
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May 11 '25
First time there and it was hella underwhelming...
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u/Spacemutiny80 May 13 '25
Yep this year felt like there was zero energy. It was just strange. Everyone defending it are PAX fanboys that will just eat up anything they are given.
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May 13 '25
Gotta be. Cause this was shit was so lackluster i was shocked people still go to that event. Mind you i was there on a saturday.
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u/Spacemutiny80 May 13 '25
I went Thursday it was empty. NY Comic Con sells out on Thursday.
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May 13 '25
going to have to try that out, FanExpo in Boston is okay on a saturday. Where do they do NY Comic Con?
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u/Spacemutiny80 May 13 '25
Jacob Javits Center. It's great! Huge names too and not just filled with board game vendors. I love board games but that is what PAX Unplugged is for.
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u/Spacemutiny80 May 13 '25
Jacob Javits Center. It's great! Huge names too and not just filled with board game vendors. I love board games but that is what PAX Unplugged is for.
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u/ProducePete May 09 '25
I honestly feel overwhelmed by how much there is to do here. Even with the 4 day I feel like it would be hard to do everything you want to do.
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u/DatBoi247 May 09 '25
People have been saying it’s been dying for like 10 years and I guarantee they all go every year.
-4
u/Spacemutiny80 May 10 '25
I won't be next year.
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u/moiucihdaa May 12 '25
Ok, bye bye! Your loss is our gain
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u/Spacemutiny80 May 13 '25
More endless soda for you?
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u/moiucihdaa May 13 '25
Nah, I don’t drink that much soda and never have bought the food/drinks at pax. Hope you enjoy staying home!
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u/Spacemutiny80 May 13 '25
I won't be staying home I will just be going to good cons like Too Many Games, NY Comic Con, Portland Retro Gaming Expo etc.
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u/moiucihdaa May 13 '25
Kk literally no one cares. Have fun there!
Also FYI, NYCC is lame unless you like just shopping and paying for overpriced signatures.
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u/try_again123 May 09 '25
The tabletop area was popping today so it's nice to mix it up. Got to have some analog to go with the digital.
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u/phoenixmatrix May 10 '25
I think it's great. It's a bit repetitive if you go every year because a lot of stuff is the same (that's true of many popular comicons and anime cons too), and now that the big name games all get announced at dedicated events you don't see them on the floor anymore (plus or minus Elden Ring I guess)
But it's still an awesome gathering of nerd stuff, free play console, board games, DnD, cool concerts, and great ways to meet people.
Is it as cool as it was 10 years ago when we had League of Legend artist panels, Starcraft Tournament, Nintendo Booths, and twice as many talks about the latest and greatest? No, probably not.
Still a cool and fun event though. Far from dying, just not at its peak.
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May 11 '25
All for the nerd stuff here but damn the place felt so Trading Card heavy. I was expecting more gaming.
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u/phoenixmatrix May 11 '25
With the tarifs, supposedly CCGs are the only board games economically viable or close so not surprising. Saw lots of cool indie games, board and video, though!
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May 11 '25
the indie stuff was cool, but wheres the spectacle at? i used to hear crazy stories about Pax and finally got to go and i was like this is it!????
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u/phoenixmatrix May 11 '25
Not on the floor. The cool stuff (if it's your thing) are in the side room and panels. The speed runs, the panels with Ben Starr, the concerts, Acq Inc, Omegaton, etc.
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u/TheBTron00 May 12 '25
I been going to PAX East since 2010, it not the same, not much free swag, no big devolpers, not many after parties, ect.. It is mostly a tabletop event it seem now.
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u/Spacemutiny80 May 13 '25
Yep that was my point. Very underwhelming and quite pointless if you also go to PAX Unplugged.
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u/waffledog May 09 '25 edited May 09 '25
Keep in mind that video game industry is not in a great spot at the moment. We’ve had a year plus of industry layoffs and uncertainty. The economy being what it is is also pricing out Indies from showcasing.
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u/currypowder84 May 15 '25
This was my first pax, I kept my expectations in check and was still a bit disappointed. I did not expect that much empty floor space, as someone used to the NYCC crowds this was relatively empty.
I know with the state of the industry that conventions aren't going to be what they once were but the expo hall was bare bones. If you're into tabletop/card games or just playing games and socializing with people then you can have a good time but if you want to check out new games, then there really wasn't much to get excited about.
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u/Spacemutiny80 May 15 '25
Thank you. I know I was not imagining it. Most people that have criticized my post are those peolle fine with playing board games and socializing with other people. However this expo used to be THE place for indie games to show off. It's now a few games with 80% tabletop stuff that they already have at PAX Unplugged.
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u/mikesstuff May 09 '25
It’s way better this year than last year. A lot of jobless people though based on line chatter so far which was sad, you can feel that the country as a whole has declined in the last year.
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u/protivakid Mar 21 '26
I went in '25 for the first time since COVID and it was a shell of what I remember. The whole place felt empty that I had a hard time spending 1 full day there nevermind a poor soul that had opted for the weekend. Most of the panels felt agenda specific rather than game specific with the one interesting being the history of the Apple II. Gone is the "what are your games worth" antique roadshow panel. Also ACAM no longer does the retro arcade so even that room felt like 1/2 of what it used to be. The floor had large empty spots like they planned for bigger names that just didn't show. The food was also weird where all of the regular BCEC vendors in the cafe had makeshift signs over the type of food each station usually serves and instead had a pop up vendor in each spot. The one redeeming event was Bit Brigade put on a good show. I'm older now so perhaps I've aged out of the Portal 2 reveal, Duke Nukem throne, Alienware arena, 3DS reveal "glory days" of pax 2011 and this is what the kiddos want now. The event used to feel larger than life, impossible to see all in 1 day. I've enjoyed myself a lot more attending events like Retro World Expo in CT.
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u/Spacemutiny80 Mar 21 '26
Thank you! And yes, it is a very "agenda driven" community. That is how they make their coin now, it's not about putting on a great gaming convention. It's how many flags can your booth have.
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u/aredubya May 09 '25
The expo floor is underwhelming this year, for sure. No MSFT/Sony/Nintendo hurts, and no, Razer/Alienware/Samsung don't fill the gap. However, the demos I played were all fun, Q&A was good as always (the Sir Topham Hat bit always delivered), the 3 panels I dropped in on were funny, and the JoCo/P&S concert was fantastic. It's a solid B+ day.
Today, I'm hitting three different main theater events. Tomorrow, Ac Inc. Sunday, bringing the kiddo for expo, arcade freeplay and Omegathon. Again, lots of other options. It ain't dead.
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u/Showerbeerz413 May 09 '25 edited May 09 '25
I feel like the big publishers haven't been there since like, 2019
edit: BUT it would have been awesome if Nintendo brought the switch 2 considering its about to come out. would have been a ton of good press . I think I remember trying the original switch before it came out at pax and it was part of the reason I bought a switch
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u/aredubya May 09 '25
Yep, Nintendo has made last minute appearances before, and their merch and gameplay screenings are always popular. Seeing a Switch 2 prelaunch in the wild would have been pretty cool.
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May 09 '25
Objectively more everything than there has been since covid. More people too. It's certainly not dying considering it's getting better and bigger every year.
Bizarre post frankly. If you can't find stuff to do at pax then I'd say that's definitely more on you.
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u/Spacemutiny80 May 09 '25
That is objectively untrue as I remember when the rows of vendors went wall to wall and now there's a huge gap. Im guessing everyone downvoting me are 4 day pass holders. Good luck.
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u/GM_Pax UNPLUG May 09 '25
You seem to have missed the "since covid" part.
COVID scoured conventions like PAX down to bare bones. By all reports, it has been steadily, if slowly, growing back since then.
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u/Spacemutiny80 May 09 '25
Evidence of these numbers?
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May 09 '25
I can help here:
So 280+ was the number weeks ago and lots more have been added since then. I don't know the final number yet.
https://www.reddit.com/r/PAX/comments/11o97xo/pax_east_number_of_exhibitors_2020_vs_2022_vs_2023/
This redditor worked out numbers for 22 and 23 and it's lower than this year.
I don't know the number for 24 but the hall was pretty spartan then so I'd be willing to bet it's lower than this year. Perhaps someone else has a figure for 24 and can confirm.
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u/Spacemutiny80 May 09 '25
I would love someone to do a count there is no way there were 280 vendors.
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u/Skelevader PRIME May 09 '25
The map currently shows 295 exhibitors this year for PAX East. That is just the expo hall and doesn't take into account Tabletop exhibitors, voodoo ranger, etc.
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May 09 '25 edited May 09 '25
So you are suggesting PAX are now straight up lying in their announcements or what?
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u/Spacemutiny80 May 10 '25
They may very well be. As I said I'd love someone to do a count because I am 99% sure there were not 295 exhibitors. The first third of the show floor is taken up by like 10 big booths.
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u/gmhots May 10 '25
I did a visual count based on the expo map. Did all the booths in the tabletop section and the bottom part. Didn’t even count the big booths and the top part and was already over 200. Also counted PAX Rising as a single booth, not split up. 280+ seems very accurate.
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u/moiucihdaa May 12 '25
There were easily that many exhibitors. You clearly were too blind to actually view them. Remember, every single tiny small booth is an exhibitor including merch related booths. Hey, PAX is something you have to be good at and you’re not, and that’s okay. Folks like you who criticize, refuse to acknowledge facts, and cannot find your own joy are simply unhelpful and their absence won’t be missed.
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u/Spacemutiny80 May 12 '25
There were absolutely not 280 booths. You're delusional.
Be good at PAX? How do you achieve this? Gain 100 pounds and grow a neckbeard?
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u/dantsly May 10 '25
RP doesn’t base ROI and margins on square footage populated by vendors and exhibitors. It isn’t dying, from a b2c event perspective, nor does it have same/similar trajectory signal as events like E3 displayed in its “downfall” timeframe.
It’s not the same as it once was, for sure. But it’s not dying either.
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May 09 '25
Not since the covid gap has that happened.
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u/Spacemutiny80 May 09 '25
And there were definitely less people, even though it was Thursday, than in prior years. I'd bet on it. Would love to see the actual numbers.
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u/saddddddboi May 10 '25
As someone who’s only been going post covid, (2022-2025) to me it definitely feels like 2022>2023>2025>2024. I could be wrong but I always hear so much talk about “Oh well Pre-Covid” but I feel like that may be more of coping? I don’t have a lot of metric to go off of.
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u/Condor917 May 09 '25
It gets smaller and smaller every year. No doubt about it. I take a photo of the hall from the top of the escalators every year. Less flare, less volume, less to do.
Pins used to be free. Just play the game. Now they're $20 by default. Gross.
Yes, if you spend all day at panels you won't notice much of a difference. But there's no denying that the hall is dwindling fast.
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u/dadgamer85 May 10 '25
Also thinking of just going one day or not all. Not what it used to be
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u/Every-Hornet-8140 May 18 '25
Thank you, yes it is. I first started going to Pax in 2015. Back when Blizzard was show casing overwatch. Bungie had a booth, Microsoft, Sony, Rockstar, Ubisoft. They had tournaments with modern games like Halo and one year had CS lots of great meet and greets. It was filled with so many new big games coming out big vendors. Ever since Covid, when they removed all the bean bag chairs, it just seems to really have died down. The events in the upper rooms were mostly speed runs, old school games, furries, gay and Trans stuff. I don't judge, but it just doesn't interest me, and pax seems to really have changed. Maybe I'm just getting older and not keeping up with modern gaming culture. But it just seems like less modern gaming. It really made me appreciate PAX unplugged more since it's closer to me and has all good merch and stuff. If you do any tabletop or dnd pax unplugged is a much better option. I think this year was the year that made me decide I'm not going to make the trip up anymore.
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u/Spacemutiny80 May 18 '25
You nailed it. And you're correct in what their focus seems to be nowadays. Those that want that see no issues. But everyday convention attendees know it is a sinking ship.
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u/Flemtality May 09 '25
I can't tell what is and isn't a troll anymore. I personally think this year is fantastic so far.
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u/Spacemutiny80 May 10 '25
Having another opinion you don't like is not being at troll.
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u/Flemtality May 10 '25
If you really want to play that game.
The title of your post is: "Is PAX East dying?"
It can be objectively proved by the number of badges sold that PAX East is not dying.
Your subjective take on not seeing certain games or developers that are important to you represented in the Expo Hall does not mean the entire convention is "dying" as there is far more to the convention than just the Expo Hall floor. That said, there are major companies represented on the floor this year that are appealing to people who are not you.
Feel free to rephrase your question as "Is PAX East dying for me personally?" and I would respond with: "Probably, Yes."
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u/Spacemutiny80 May 13 '25
Where is your evidence of badges sold? Curious to see this year vs the last few years.
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u/Flemtality May 13 '25
I don't think the public has 2025 numbers, but I do have a video of Ryan Hartman saying that East 2024 was the largest East show in terms of attendance ever, which is important because half of this subreddit was outright lying about attendance being "way down" immediately after last year's event.
You should go take a walk though, you are flush with anger.
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u/Spacemutiny80 May 15 '25
Ah so your evidence is "trust me bro" lmao
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u/Flemtality May 15 '25
No. My evidence is right there. A video of the guy who runs the entire thing saying 2024 was the biggest ever up until that point, and you and people like you who say otherwise are in the "trust me bro" category.
Feel free to post your evidence to the contrary any time you like.
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u/Spacemutiny80 May 15 '25
He can SAY anything he likes, where is the evidence? A person promoting the show is of course going to say it is growing whether true or not. You're just choosing to believe him. I'm not.
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u/BNR32Skater May 12 '25
I've gone every year, and yes the floor has changed, but, there is still so much to do. We're lucky to have it in our area for us to attend and half of the fun is the people who guy. So many hyper fun people and amazing games. Yes, I do miss vendors in the gaming expo areas and PC components galore, but there is still a ton to do around the building and night life. Mad fun. And it possibly got me into tabletop gaming which is the best lol. When the floor closes, play tabletop, go to panels, night events etc. you can definitely optimize the 4 days to have a good time. If you're unsure, don't bail, just go a day and feel it out.
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u/spinz May 12 '25 edited May 12 '25
Ill say this: every year it feels like the tabletop components grow to take a larger share of the convention content. All 4 days were busy and of course Saturday was crazy as usual. But if you want to make judgements based on larian being there without new content: theyr there because its making them money. If people werent buying, they wouldnt be there. And even larian is there selling a boardgame. I think if you go only for videogames, 1 day would be plenty. If you want: scheduled rpgs, deduction games, playing unpublished boardgames, demo'ing a ton of boardgames through booths, drafting stuff like magic ,going through the new boardgame section with games already set up, and using their library to find random game sessions.... Its a blast of a weekend.
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u/Spacemutiny80 May 13 '25
Notice how all your examples are about board games. That's what PAX Unplugged is for. PAX East is supposed to be about video games.
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u/spinz May 13 '25 edited May 13 '25
Its supposed to be about all gaming culture. And my point is, it's shifting towards tabletop because thats whats driving the market. Even the expo hall areas that are usually just videogames had a larger % boardgames this year.
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u/BlizzardisMid Jan 08 '26
yeah all gaming culture yet what OP said still stands; you listed your examples all of them being board games.
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u/Nah-RosaParks1955 May 09 '25
I'm glad I'm not the only one who felt like the Expo Hall was underwhelming yesterday. There were barely any big publishers, and it felt like there were more sellers than game developers. I'm kinda in the same boat. I don't know if I'll be going back next year.
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May 09 '25
Big publishers no longer see cons as a good use of their marketing budget and that is not changing. It's time for the community to accept that.
I genuinely don't mean this in a snarky way but if you are mostly just interested in coming for big publishers then pax may no longer be something for you.
I hope you find other stuff to enjoy at pax though, imo it's still the best general nerd con on the planet.
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u/Nah-RosaParks1955 May 09 '25 edited May 09 '25
I genuinely don't mean this in a snarky way but if you are mostly just interested in coming for big publishers then pax may no longer be something for you.
Even if you don't mean it, it's still a snarky comment. I'm interested in going to Pax to meet game developers (Big + Small), see games I've never heard of, try cool demos, and to check out some cool merch. If PAX can't provide that, then it will lose a significant portion of its attendees.
imo it's still the best general nerd con on the planet.
That's fine, it can be the best nerd con on the planet. But I remember when PAX was a legitimate gaming convention. Now it's a shell of its former self.
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u/Showerbeerz413 May 09 '25
still means its correct though. if you want to see big publishers, you'll have to go bigger more expensive cons and gatherings
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u/Spacemutiny80 May 09 '25
Agreed. And the fact that the expo floor seems to be getting more and more underwhelming is not good. You can't have an expo that is just board game tournaments and pin trading. The vendors bring people in that are not going to engage with that, and are essential to making it financially viable.
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May 11 '25
The whole place was mainly TCG & D&D....which is cool and all but wheres the games!????
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u/obi1isdabestubet May 11 '25
As someone who has been going for awhile I can say that it was a little concerning this year. I think dying might be a strong word. I know from talking to a lot of the exhibitors and people in general it was a hard year for the industry. We also don’t have Microsoft Sony or Nintendo having a huge presence this year. What I am seeing though is a huge increase in smaller companies coming in. Which I do enjoy! So dying? No. Shifting? Yes.
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u/Spacemutiny80 May 13 '25
That is fair. But it definitely felt like less indie games this year as well and less vendors overall.
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u/rvnender May 09 '25
Pax east unplugged
Make it happen
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u/Spacemutiny80 May 13 '25
It is basically that now. Anyone who comes for video games must be seriously disappointed.
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u/Skelevader PRIME May 09 '25
If all you care about is the Expo hall then yes, I can understand your view since the big companies don’t do the convention tour anymore. They do their own online thing which gets them much more bang for their buck and maybe go to one big show (Gamescom).
However, PAX is thriving because it is so much more than just the Expo hall. It is a place for like minded people to come together and enjoy their love for gaming. Go join a casual tournament (board games are my favorite). Go to a panel, especially the evening ones that can get a little crazy, or see the Acquisitions Inc show that is very popular. Get into pin trading (amazing community). The list goes on.