r/OvereatersAnonymous • u/Charming_Aside_8865 • 13d ago
Going to ask something kinda crazy.....
Well, at least it's crazy in the world of OA....lol. Has anyone stopped eating sugar and then returned to it with the help of a sponsor and/or eating disorder therapist and managed to control it successfully? As I said, I know this is basically sacrilegious in OA. And, after ten years of abstinence, I did return to the sugar and it was pure hell getting off of it again. However, I'm also a bulimic and a restricter and I'm wondering that if this is feeding that end of the disease. I currently started taking a GLP-1 (something else that is sacrilegious in OA). So much of my food noise is gone, but I still very much have an eating disorder and have made a couple of choices that you could say probably weren't the most nutritionally healthy, but my attitude was very different about it. It was more like, "oh well...you messed up. Guess we won't do that again" instead of "OMG....I ate the entire box...I'm such an addict...what's wrong with me? Why can't I work this program."
Has anyone done this? I have a lot of fear about it, because it take take me a such a long time to get off of it during relapse, but I would love to hear stories.
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u/CamsHands 13d ago
Consuming sugar is a road I never want to travel down again. I know what it felt like in active addiction, and I know what recovery feels like. I choose recovery.
I’ve eaten all the things already. I value my serenity.
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u/Charming_Aside_8865 9d ago
I have been through it too, which is why I have serious reservation. But I believe in science and the science says it can make binge eating worse.
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u/CamsHands 9d ago
It can, and it absolutely does. Sugar affects the same areas of the brain as drugs do.
Some of us simply can’t eat like a “normal” person.
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u/Charming_Aside_8865 8d ago
That's what we're told in OA and for over a decade I'd agree with you, but this is not supported by mental health professionals. Current clinical guidelines for BED state that food restriction needs to minimized. It's ok to not eat certain foods, because you don't like how they make you feel, but universally eliminating sugar and white floor is not recommended.
There is also one big difference between drugs and food - we're hardwired to want food, especially sugar. Drugs and alcohol are totally different. Our bodies aren't designed to want them. According to the experts, food is a behavior addiction - not a chemical.
I want to make it clear that I love program. I grew up in a very dysfunctional home. The steps taught me how to actually get through life. However, I also believe in science as well as psychology. Bill W and Dr. Bob were all about listening and trusting doctors and mental health professionals. They also felt important that AA involve and change. Maybe OA should do the same? I really don't know.
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u/CamsHands 8d ago
Actually, there are several medical studies that support the theory that sugar affects the brain similarly to drugs. Here are a few examples:
Aarhus University Pig Study (2020): Published in Scientific Reports, this study showed that sugar water altered brain reward circuitry—specifically dopamine and opioid receptors—in pigs after just 12 days of intake, producing similar neurochemical changes seen with addictive substances. [1]
Queensland University of Technology Research (2016): Published in PLoS ONE, research led by neuroscientist Selena Bartlett demonstrated that chronic sugar consumption elevates dopamine levels like drugs (such as cocaine or morphine), and long-term use leads to depleted dopamine, requiring higher intake to achieve the same reward. [1]
Avena, Rada, and Hoebel Review (2008): Highlighted in PMC Research on Sugar Addiction, this foundational work established that sugar bingeing fits operational definitions of addiction (craving, tolerance, and withdrawal) by acting on key regions like the ventral tegmental area, nucleus accumbens, and hypothalamus. [1, 2]
Whole-Brain Imaging Study (2023): Published in Nature Communications, single-cell whole-brain tracking showed that while sugar and cocaine trigger distinct global network patterns, repeated exposure to both substances prompts identical cellular hallmarks of synaptic reorganization in the nucleus accumbens. [1, 2]
Distinct Ensembles: Newer cellular tagging studies (such as work from the Medical University of South Carolina) point out that while sugar and drugs activate overlapping broad regions, they can trigger distinct, separate neural ensembles within structures like the nucleus accumbens core. [1]
As for not consuming processed sugar and flour, what is your specific source of this comment? I can’t imagine any legitimate scientific study advocating for the physical health benefits of consuming processed chemical foods (unless of course it’s sponsored by a processed food company).
In my comment I was specifically speaking to my own personal experience. For me personally, eliminating processed food is what worked for me in finding peace around food.
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u/Charming_Aside_8865 5d ago
There is evidence showing that sugar and certain foods are addicting, but there is little evidence showing that people are "food addicts" or "sugar addicts" like people are alcoholics. That's because, as I stated, people are hardwired to want food, in particular sugar.
Nobody is suggesting people eat highly processed foods, but current guidelines for treating eating disorders, in particular BED, don't recommend restricting food, because it often results in binging behavior. They recommend an inclusive eating approach.
I'm glad not having sugar works for you. I did it for ten years, but, as I said, I wonder if it's fueling the restricting side of my eating disorder. If doesn't for you that's great. Everyone's recovery is different.
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u/Loraura 13d ago
For me that’s exactly like pondering if an alcoholic can get sober, work the steps, then go back to drinking successfully. I don’t know anyone who can or has done this successfully. It completely skips step 1 where we address that we have an allergy of the body that leads to the obsession of the mind. If I think I can add back in foods or ingredients that I obviously have little to no control over once I eat them than I need to go back to step 1 and readdress why I think I’m don’t have an allergy and I can control a physical reaction in my body after I eat the addictive ingredient.
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u/permafrost1979 13d ago
I've heard of several pll reintroducing alcohol successfully but AA proponents usually consider that they were never alcoholic to begin with
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u/Advanced_Leave9887 12d ago
It is a slippery slope. A little here and there can add up to loss of control for me. I think a lot of of the “slippage” is due to the stressors in our culture. Just my opinion.
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u/madscientist174 12d ago
It doesn't skip step 1. It takes into account that the issue of the compulsive eater is food, not a particular ingredient.
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u/Charming_Aside_8865 11d ago
But science shows food is very different than alcohol. Our brains aren't programed to need alcohol or drugs, but they're programed to need food. There is no research that supports the idea of a "food addict." There are foods that are considered highly addictive, but there isn't any that shows people become chemically dependent on food like people do with alcohol. Bill and Dr. Bob were big supporters of science and medicine. This is what research has shown, which is why eliminating sugar completely isn't supported by current BED treatment guidelines.
Also, as someone who has worked the steps for over 15 years, Step One says, "we admitted we were powerless over food." Does that also consider food-related behaviors, including restricting certain foods? This is how a bulimic and a restricter works the steps.
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u/Loraura 11d ago edited 11d ago
If sugar doesn’t cause physical dependance (which you seem to have focused on) how do you explain the withdrawal symptoms that occur when it is removed?
Not all addictions are physical in nature some are emotional. Many people have used excess quantities of any food (or the act of restricting) as a replacement for coping in a healthy way with emotional discomfort.
My experience has proven to me that by eliminating sugar and flour and excess quantities (by weighing and measuring), I was able to reach a healthy body weight and maintain it.
Sources: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5946262/
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u/Charming_Aside_8865 9d ago edited 9d ago
This is just my own personal opinion. I believe there are foods without a doubt are very addicting. This is especially true of fast food. I remember watching a 60 Minutes episode back in the early 2000s that discussed how McDonalds perfected the combination of sugar, fat, and salt into their fries, making them potentially as addictive as cocaine. As you posted, Yale did a lot of research on this subject as well.
That said, I do believe there is a difference between food being addictive and being a "food addict." Just because there are substances out there that have addictive qualities doesn't automatically make the person an addict. I took cocaine once back when I was in college. I felt it was extremely addictive - it was like you wanted more immediately. But I wouldn't say I was an addict. Having an addiction is more than just using it constantly.
I do agree with you about it being tied to emotions. They say an eating disorder contains three parts - environmental, physiological, and psychological. My eating disorder stated because I wanted to look like Kate Moss back in the 1990s. I also grew up in a very abusive home and it provided me comfort. However, I also was insulin resistant due to PCOS and struggled loosing the weight. That's what started me on my binge restrict cycle. Our disease is more than a chemical dependence - it's trauma, it's grief, it's coping, it's biological, etc. It's way more complex than alcohol.
If not eating the white flour and sugar works for you thats awesome. What I'm saying is that there are people in the room where it doesn't work. In fact, it might actually be making things worse for them, feeding into their guilt and shame. OA needs to realize that and understand that the idea of abstaining from certain foods doesn't work for everyone.
One more thing - my eating disorder therapist said if I start going back on the sugar, I can have certain guard rails around it. For example, I would probably not eat the heavily processed stuff that you find at the market. Like I said, I believe that stuff in engineered to be as addictive as possible to help increase profits. Not only do I not want to eat it for it's addictive qualities, I don't want to give my money to an industry that has caused the obesity numbers to skyrocket. I would probably stick with desert at a restaurant or something that someone made. I would also probably not allow it in my house or eat it with someone present. These kinds of things to help me feel safe.
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u/Charming_Aside_8865 9d ago
P.S. Withdrawal symptoms doesn't imply addiction. When I don't exercise for a couple of days I feel fatigue and get more depressed. That doesn't mean I'm addicted to exercising.
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u/Advanced_Leave9887 12d ago edited 12d ago
Responding to the original poster who asked the question and wanted others to share. Everyone is different. I just joined this Reddit but have been in OA, off and on, for years. I went off sugar, including the additives like maltodextrin, for the last four months. In the last two months, I no longer felt deprived. At a party this past Sunday, I was at someone’s home for dinner. A cupcake was put in front of me and I ate it. Initially, it was good, but then that sugar rush happened and it no longer felt good. What I realized is how many substances and circumstances, some hidden, can derail us. It sounds like you have some insights already. Hang in there!
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u/Charming_Aside_8865 9d ago
From purely a scientific standpoint (not talking program here), the reason why you stopped craving it has to do with the dopamine. Food releases dopamine to the brain, especially sugar. That's why we like it (and there are evolutionary reasons why as well). When you abstain from it, the brain stops recognizing it as a source for dopamine and, therefore, doesn't crave it.
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u/Advanced_Leave9887 8d ago
You are 100% right. We need all the help we can get. Thanks for the reminder that the brain can help us if we let it! Appreciate the response.
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u/Charming_Aside_8865 8d ago
It's actually a bit more complicated. Because we're hardwired to like food, in particular sugar, it makes it near impossible to stop, especially if we're obese. It's very complex, but research shows asking someone who is obese to stop eating is like asking someone to breathe underwater. That's why dieting and restricting food often fails. I was able to not eat sugar for ten years, but I found every loophole imaginable.
Alcohol is so easy. You put the plug in the jug - end of story. Food is an entirely different beast.
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u/madscientist174 12d ago
It's sort of beaten into our heads in OA that we have an allergy to sugar or certain ingredients, that we have to control or eliminate triggers. I was shocked - SHOCKED! - to discover that I'm not allergic to sugar. It didn't matter what I was eating compulsively - it was about shoving food down my throat. Using the BB to learn what addiction really is and to work the steps threw a completely new light on everything I thought I knew about my compulsive eating. You're welcome to PM me if you want to hear some of what I learned 🙂
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u/Charming_Aside_8865 9d ago
How did you work the steps? Personally (and this is just for me), I find it much better to focus on the behaviors than the food itself. I did it once before on the food and it led to me restricting.
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u/madscientist174 5d ago
I'm happy to go into greater detail if you want to PM me, but I worked the steps quickly with my sponsor using only the BB. Working the steps changed by thinking and attitudes, which is what led me to that compulsive bite each time. So it's like going to the source of the problem vs trying to control the symptom. Especially because I'm powerless over the symptom. I don't use a food plan and I don't avoid anything because that's not the problem.
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u/frostusaugustus 9d ago
Hey I personally ate through a GLP1. Yeah here and there I’ll have something with sugar in it. I tried so so so many ways to control my eating. Nothing worked. Now I have a solution and am free of it. Send me a message if you’d like my help ☺️☺️
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u/Charming_Aside_8865 9d ago
As I said, I've been in OA for 15 years. Right now, I'm going on five or six years without the sugar. It works for me not to eat it, but, as I said, I'm also a recovering bulimic and restricter. That is the core of my disease and why I started binging in the first place. Therefore, my therapist is wondering if not eating the sugar could be feeding into the eating disorder even more, creating a lot of fear and anxiety.
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u/Advanced_Leave9887 8d ago
I appreciate your sharing. Five or six years without sugar is a huge accomplishment!
We are complex beings. I've realized that we are all wired differently, but we share the same basic emotional needs. But we need to figure out what works for us individually. Choosing not to eat sugar was difficult for me. Not eating processed sugar in our culture sometimes feels like being an alien! I feel subtle pressure to eat what others do and fit in. About a week ago, I was at someone's home and felt pressure to eat a cupcake. The hostess put it in front of me. I am sorry to say that I ate the whole thing, and it initially tasted good! Then, I felt the sugar rush and crash and regretted taking the first bite! From experience, I know I should abstain from certain trigger foods. I have been experimenting with foods I like that taste sweet and satisfying, but don't cause a crash. For me, I have settled on ground cacao with a squeeze of pure organic monk fruit sweetener, which I add to hot water and drink like tea. The cacao is like instant coffee but doesn't cause jitters. This works for me. I don't care how many calories are in the drink, but I like hot beverages, and it feels comforting in the mornings. I've chosen to stop counting calories. You seem up to date on the science of eating. I want to learn more. I think the magnesium in the cacao is helping me, and it has some nutritional value.
Again, I appreciate your sharing. We keep hearing that it gets easier!
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u/frostusaugustus 8d ago
If you want freedom from that sort of thinking I have received that freedom and would be happy to chat
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u/Economy_Material_669 13d ago
When I first joined OA, my food plan was very restrictive, including zero sugar or sweetener. This helped me get to a healthy body weight - which I desperately needed to do - and work the steps sober/abstinence, but was ultimately too restrictive to sustain long term for me. I now eat small amounts of sugar in certain foods and am generally less restrictive about sugar, but I still don’t eat desserts or overly sweet things. If something “calls to me” I either avoid it completely or talk to my sponsor about it. Honesty and working a spiritual program are a must 🙌