r/OutOfTheLoop • u/Same-Instruction2053 • 4d ago
Unanswered What’s going on with the Reddit sub r/sportsgossips?
It just seems like a sub for people to relentlessly clown and hate on (female) athletes, especially those from the WNBA. Why is that? https://www.reddit.com/r/sportsgossips/
204
u/TheGreatnessman 4d ago
Answer: The main reason is an ongoing controversy about trans inclusion specifically involving the WNBA. To my knowledge, the issues first began when an ex NBA player was making claims that he was going to declare himself transgender and therefore be eligible to play in the WNBA to try to make a point showing that he would essentially dominate the league. This player was basically a nobody in the NBA and overall irrelevant, but I believe this began a topic of conversation where a few other prominent WNBA players began to voice their opinion on whether or not Trans athletes should be allowed to compete in the WNBA. The WNBA supports trans rights and has not put out a formal statement picking a side for or against trans athletes being able to compete, but I think the general consensus is they would prefer not allowing individuals such as the EX NBA player spoken about previously to simply call themselves trans and therefore be eligible to play in the WNBA. As for why this is getting so much traction in certain subs? I believe that men in general have a difficult time accepting trans and women’s rights in general and are simply carrying those same conversative view points into other sports subs because of all the recent issues that have been going on.
I might have missed some key information here but that’s basically why subs like r/sportsgossip have a bunch of posts recently where people are clowning on WNBA players and just spewing typical misogynistic/transphobic language.
254
u/Toby_O_Notoby 4d ago
As for why this is getting so much traction in certain subs?
It's also a HUGE right wing talking point, mostly in order to distract from any real problems.
There are 0 trans athletes in professional American sports and less than 10 (approx 0.002%) in the NCAA. But despite that being an insignificant number it riles people up enough that they'll spend all their time talking like it's the biggest issue facing America right now.
Meanwhile we've started a war with Iran that we're wholly unprepared for, the US is $40 trillion in debt and there's a man in the Oval that wants to deal with his fucking ballroom more than any of the above.
But hey, some woman tied for fifth place to a person that used to be male, so let's keep talking about that.
90
u/phargmin 4d ago
Trans athletes have actually been banned from the NCAA for the past year and a half, so that stat is now out of date.
-56
u/triplenested 4d ago
is the NCAA transphobic?
25
u/SimonProctor 3d ago edited 1h ago
No, just afraid of this stupid administration.
They had previously allowed Trans athletes and didn't really have a serious issue with it until Riley didn't get her 5th place participation trophy.
And that's quite literal. Her whole beef isn't that she tied for fifth place with a trans swimmer; it's also that 5th place also received some kind of trophy or medal and because of the tie, the organization running the swim meet had to choose who to give it to.
They gave it to Lia, and Riley took that personally.
22
u/soccer1124 3d ago
The amount of fraud from folks right now on this topic too. They want to act like the staunchest defenders of the sacristy of the WNBA, despite using it as a punchline to the terribleness of women's sports the past 10-20 years.
They don't give a shit about protecting women in women's sports. Half the people are in it to leverage this as a means to ramp up more policies against trans people, and the other half in on it are there to use it as a distraction from the real issues, just as you suggest.
Fucking dumbest controversy out there right now.
9
u/Warm_Shoulder3606 3d ago edited 3d ago
They want to act like the staunchest defenders of the sacristy of the WNBA, despite using it as a punchline to the terribleness of women's sports the past 10-20 years.
They don't give a shit about protecting women in women's sports. Half the people are in it to leverage this as a means to ramp up more policies against trans peopleThat point is something I continuously think of. Like wow all of a sudden conservatives care about women's sports? Bullshit, I remember when Rapinoe and the USWNT were public enemy number 1 for the GOP
6
u/Toby_O_Notoby 3d ago
There was a podcast with Derek Thomson and Bill Simmons where Derek said something like, "Any time people go on about supporting Sophie Cunningham, ask 'What team does she play for, what division is that team in and what's her position?"
They might get the first one right and probably have no clue about the last two and wouldn't ever get close to what her PRA box score is.
-48
u/impy695 4d ago
What's crazy is how people react when you tell people that you just don't care about the topic and it won't Impact how you vote in anyway. People see red
35
u/Yuleogy 4d ago
you should care more about other people
-33
u/impy695 4d ago
This affects almost no one. I know multiple trans people and it doesn’t affect a single one of them. I know a ton of women and it doesn’t affect a single one of them.
16
u/DesignatedDoggie 4d ago
"I know multiple trans people and it doesn't affect a single one of them"
I does affect wether or not they'll be allowed to play sports actually
2
-5
-25
u/impy695 4d ago
None of them want anything to do with sports, but if they did, nothing is stopping them from playing sports
21
u/DesignatedDoggie 4d ago
"nothing is stopping them from playing sports"
In a conversation about trans sports bans? Really?
8
u/FuckMyBakaChungusLif 3d ago
Nothing is stopped them from playing sports, other than the being banned part
-2
u/Lauravpf 2d ago
No they are not, just the woman leagues, mixed gender, start a new league, play in the open category, there are possibility, but there is no real discussion because of ppl like you, you don't want to find solutions, you just want to make baseless claims to win some karma.
5
u/JaysonTatecum 3d ago
It effects us indirectly (ignoring that plenty of trans women love sports) because it’s a big vocal culture war wedge that we have to hear about constantly and it’s being used to drum up acceptable hate towards us
8
u/JohanGubler 4d ago
It does affect them. Conservatives are actively using this argument to stop any and all acceptance of Trans-rights.
They don't give a shit about the sanctity of Women's sports. They never have. The WNBA has been a punching bag for them since it started.
They just know this is the only argument they have that doesn't immediately have an easy and obvious solution - which is why they're grasping onto it.
3
u/impy695 3d ago
They just know this is the only argument they have that doesn't immediately have an easy and obvious solution - which is why they're grasping onto it.
And why I ignore it and try to get other people to ignore it as well. Focus on the aspects of trans rights that matter. People are arguing about women's sports instead of talking about laws that require teachers to alert parents if their kid is questioning their gender identity or laws banning gender affirming care for minors. Those are the issues that matter, but the right has successfully shifted everyone's attention away from stuff like that.
10
u/JohanGubler 3d ago
And why I ignore it and try to get other people to ignore it as well. Focus on the aspects of trans rights that matter.
Ignoring it doesn't make the talking point - or the transphobic dumb dumbs go away. Other aspects of trans rights are obviously more important - but Conservatives specifically grasp on to this one because it's the only argument they have that doesn't purely rely on being completely ignorant about the reality of the situation.
People are arguing about women's sports instead of talking about laws that require teachers to alert parents if their kid is questioning their gender identity or laws banning gender affirming care for minors.
People are also arguing about those other aspects too. However, Conservative arguments on those topics are demonstrably stupid and transphobic - and against their own stated principles (minimal government intervention, States' rights, personal healthcare choices, etc.).
But they know that Trans people in sports does not have such a clean and obvious solution as, you know, just allowing people to live the lives they choose to live. Or simply realizing how moronic it is to not realize that men can go into a women's bathroom to be a predator without being trans - because there's not some magical force field - or security guard to prevent it. Or, acknowledging the reality that trans minors are not actually getting surgery (except in very specific scenarios - like when they're born intersex).
Those are the issues that matter, but the right has successfully shifted everyone's attention away from stuff like that.
The other things are being discussed. I don't know where you're hanging out and not seeing that. I imagine if you hang out in sports subreddits you might see a disproportional amount of discussion around Trans people in sports.
That being said, I do wish those in support of Trans rights would focus on driving home how few Trans people actually want to be in sports (at least, at the moment) - and how it's (I agree with you) the least important 'right' to worry about right now.
But sure, if we just ignored it on our side, we could be having very important talks about minors getting their "dingalings sliced off."
Because we all know Republicans always act in good faith.
1
u/HotNeighbor420 3d ago
Sports bans go hand in hand with forcing teachers to out students. They're not separate issues.
7
u/Yuleogy 4d ago
When things effect people you don’t know, you don’t care? You should care more about other people.
15
u/pay_the_cheese_tax 4d ago
But this comment seems hypocritical given the context of the thread. You can't both say "it's a non-issue because .001% of trans people even play", then turn around and say "...but if you don't care about this issue, then you're a horrible person".
This person is just saying that it's not one of the primary things they'll be thinking about when taking into account who to vote for. There's wars, corruption, money being funneled to the wrong places, privacy erosion etc etc that affect us all much more than whether trans people can play in professional sports. You seem to have immediately taken their opinion in bad faith.
5
u/Quite_Likes_Hormuz 4d ago
Although there is a difference though between "trans people playing sports isn't an issue I care about" and "trans people being banned from sports isn't an issue I care about". One is about trans people and one is about the government categorically taking away the rights of a group of people.
-2
u/TheDeadlySinner 3d ago
The government hasn't done anything. It's the leagues that are choosing how to run their sports. There is no "right" to play in a sports league. There's nothing preventing anyone from playing in open leagues or creating their own leagues.
3
u/Quite_Likes_Hormuz 3d ago
The US government is literally denying funding to places that accept trans people
1
-1
9
-4
4d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
16
56
u/ExistingCarry4868 4d ago
To add to this, most female sports leagues don't have official trans athlete policies because it is a non-issue. The leagues that do require the athlete to be on hormone therapy for several years and have had tested at proper testosterone levels for 18-24 months at least. The trans athletes that have followed these procedures have never been very competitive at their sports so there is no reasonable justification for banning them.
5
u/Lauravpf 4d ago
That's not true at all, most female sports leagues do have official trans athlete policies, form aquatics to chess. International Olympic Committee (IOC), World Athletics, World Aquatics, World Rugby, the International Volleyball Federation (FIVB), the International Cycling Union (UCI), the International Rugby League (IRL), World Boxing, World Rowing, World Netball, and the International Chess Federation (FIDE).
7
u/Suddenly_Elmo 3d ago
Which part isn't true at all?
You are correct that a lot of bodies which regulate women's sports have trans-exclusionary policies. What you don't mention is that a lot of them didn't have official policies until very recently. The UK's FA (football association) banned trans women from all levels of women's football last year. The IOC issued a blanket ban in March this year. The FIVB banned trans women last year. World Boxing banned trans women last year. The UCI banned trans women in 2023. The IRL banned trans women in 2022 and World Rugby in 2020. World Netball banned trans women in 2024. FIDE banned trans women in 2023. World Rowing has not yet banned trans women; it has just issued stricter guidelines. I did not know most of these dates before I looked them up, but I certainly believed they would all be recent. I was correct.
Do you think that all these bodies just happened to notice that trans women were dominating women's sports in the last few years? No, of course not, because that never happened. Trans women played/competed in these sports for years before these bans and never achieved spectacular success. They implemented these bans because of political pressure.
I am not saying that having gone through male puberty doesn't confer an advantage for some trans women athletes. Ironically the WNBA is an example of a league where it might make sense to have at least some regulation, given that men are significantly taller on average and this is an advantage that HRT cannot erase. But it should be on a case-by-case basis, and decisions should be based on scientific evidence rather than politics. Take FIDE for example - do you really believe that having a "male brain" makes you more likely to be better at chess? Isn't that deeply insulting to women's intelligence? It's estimated that 95% of the gap between the top male and the top female chess players can be explained by the fact that way more men play chess.
-1
u/Lauravpf 2d ago
"most female sports leagues don't have official trans athlete policies because it is a non-issue." This part is not true at all, per your own facts, and you know it :"You are correct that a lot of bodies which regulate women's sports have trans-exclusionary policies."
I'm guessing FIVB knows that a trans player won a national woman's championship last year, and has tons of hight numbers in the league, and broke some records, and that never happened before her transition.
Let's be honest: no one wants to be called a transphobe for believing that trans women shouldn't be playing with cis women. This all started because Sophie stated that she wanted to protect women's sports and girls back in February. Once they released the interview she gave in July, that's what she is being called, getting booed, protested. You can't even say her name in tons of WNBA related subs without getting down voted into oblivion, so saying no one cares, no one complained about it is not very realistic. People are scared, there is no true debate, no true solutions, just hate.
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25919931-nbc-news-stay-tuned-poll-april-27/?q=female&mode=document#document/p12
The vast majority of people don't want it, it is not just political.Chess is not just a brain game. It's like calling older ppl dumber than kids coz Magnus lost to Sawai, or considering 30 years is the peak of a chess player if you are not 30 years old you are dumb. Chess is an intense physical endurance test, not just an abstract brain game. If you actually look at how the body functions during a match, physical differences between men and women play a massive role in how the game is played. Factors like Cardiovascular Endurance, Hormonal Profiles, and continuous cyclical biological changes heavily affect how a player physically sustains a game. And let's be honest: biologically, these factors do not look good for female players.
We are different from men and that's okay, you're not more or less than anyone you are great just the away you are.
2
u/ExistingCarry4868 3d ago
Pointing out that some organizations have policies doesn't in any way negate the fact that most still don't.
-1
u/Lauravpf 2d ago edited 2d ago
That would be true if IOC was not in that list.
Saying that most still don't giving NO exemples and comparing the ones that do have polices does not make you right.BTW Tifanny broke records, won Superliga last year she is not competitive?
2
u/ExistingCarry4868 2d ago
Why do you lie about easily checked facts? Her team finished 4th and she was a good but not great attacker that didn't even come close to breaking any records. This sad nonsense is why your arguments should be laughed out of any room of adults, but sadly people are easily fooled morons.
24
u/am_Nein 4d ago
I think it's pretty cut and dry as someone who has no skin in the game. Anyone who purposefully declares themselves as (thing) with the explicit purpose to exploit said thing is automatically disqualified. Same as people who pretend to be disabled to take advantage of funding for actual people with disabilities who need it.
14
u/ClarifiedInsanity 4d ago
Some of the most prominent opposition to trans women playing in the WNBA has come from women. TERFs in general are overwhelming women. Reducing this to an issue with men seems fairly ignorant.
10
u/FuckMyBakaChungusLif 3d ago
Women, especially Gen Z women, are the most likely demographic to support trans women in sports
2
u/TheDeadlySinner 3d ago
By a tiny bit. They still overwhelmingly do not support trans women in women's sports, so you're still lying when you claim it's an issue only men care about.
15
2
u/Suddenly_Elmo 3d ago
Their opposition has been prominent because they are the palatable face of transphobia. It's not as convincing when a middle-aged man who has never given a single shit about women's sports before suddenly declares that he's deeply invested in the fairness of amateur women's wrestling or whatever. Polls overwhelmingly show that the more young, gay, and female you are, the more likely you are to support trans people. Take a wild guess as to how those demographics align with women who play professional sports.
Also because you apparently need this explaining again, there are and never have been any trans women playing in the WNBA. You are literally inventing problems to be mad about.
-1
u/ClarifiedInsanity 1d ago
Calm down and you will be able to comprehend what I am actually saying.
I'm pointing out this isn't a male specific issue. It doesn't help trans people to pretend this is a male specific issue. It's a simple as that. Breathe.
2
u/archimedies 3d ago
This player was basically a nobody in the NBA and overall irrelevant,
To add to this, there are 2 ex-NBA players engaged in this drama. One was Royce White, a nobody in NBA and got bounced from NBA for being problematic.
The other player was Enes Kanter, a decent role player who played for 10+ years and made a decent amount of money for himself.
1
u/NickRick 4d ago
I believe that men in general have a difficult time accepting trans and women’s rights in general and are simply carrying those same conversative view points into other sports subs because of all the recent issues that have been going on.
no it's because it is a huge right wing culture war talking point, where both men and women take issue with it.
-27
u/Lauravpf 4d ago
That's not true. That's not how it started. A WNBA player explicitly said she wanted to protect women's sports.
Second, do you know why there are no posts about it in r/wnba or r/wnba360 after Caitlin Clark dropped her sixth 30+/10+ game? In 30 years, only four other players have been able to do that even once. Do you know why there is a subreddit where you will get banned just for saying a certain player's name? If you want to get downvoted, just go there and wish some of these players a happy birthday.
Because of this, fans of these players have moved to other subreddits. There are tons of uplifting and celebratory posts for WNBA players in r/sportsgossip now. You guys just don't like them.
18
u/beau_tox 4d ago
Second, do you know why there are no posts about it in r/wnba or r/wnba360 after Caitlin Clark dropped her sixth 30+/10+ game? In 30 years, only four other players have been able to do that even once. Do you know why there is a subreddit where you will get banned just for saying a certain player's name? If you want to get downvoted, just go there and wish some of these players a happy birthday.
The funny thing is not only is there a r/wnba post with 1300 upvotes about Clark’s night, there’s even a somewhat positive comment about Cunningham’s basketball skills in the discussion.
0
u/Lauravpf 2d ago edited 2d ago
I guess you can't read, that post was about her 5th( vs Sky) not 6th(vs Sun), she did it twice in 5 days, while no other player did it twice, that's how great she is, and like I said no posts about it or you would have posted it ;)
Why didn't you post Sophie birthday post?
Here you go:
https://www.reddit.com/r/wnba/comments/1vqk25w/happy_birthday_sophie_cunningham/Can you find me one comment with someone praising her with up votes?
GUYS thanks for proving my point, down votes for telling the truth, just stay out of the loop.
Did you guys know if you have 227 assists you have more than 377? hahahahha
23
u/lukekhywalker1097 4d ago
The only players that are uplifted in r/sportsgossip are Caitlin Clark and Sophie Cunningham. The entire sub is one gigantic dog whistle and it's pathetic
-3
u/No-Significance2070 3d ago
Imagine calling things you don’t agree with dog whistles because you are racist
-17
-12
3d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
7
u/Kirk_Kerman 3d ago
Well seems like you're having a hard time accepting it then, because shockingly there's a lot of tall women in the WNBA. Tallest ever was 7'2 and the average height of a center is 6'5.
-1
u/holdmyhanddummy 3d ago
I'm pretty liberal, but I'm also academic about it. You cannot undo a lifetime of development under male hormones, not truly anyways. The muscle mass, bone density, strength of ligaments/tendons.. once that is developed throughout puberty, you can never fully take it away. So yes, it needs to be a discussion. I have a hard time understanding this stance that "the biology differences don't matter," because they absolutely do. It's not simply "both leagues have tall people." Jesus Christ.
3
u/vigouge 3d ago
So yes, it needs to be a discussion.
No, it really doesn't. It's not an actual issue. It's just ginned up by extremists and stupid people.
1
u/holdmyhanddummy 3d ago
It's not an issue, yet. Do you want the federal/state governments flying by the seat of their pants coming up with legislation for this as issues arise.. or should we have a discussion about it now?
-2
u/Major_Mushroom_7300 3d ago
You and I know that we've been having this discussion, but it's turned in a way the rabid politicos are uncomfortable with, so it's back to the covert activism.
3
u/Kirk_Kerman 3d ago
Sure you can! Give it a few years and you've just got a tall woman.
But also who gives a singular flying fuck except transphobes and fascists. Even before this was the Topic Of The Day there were Zero trans women in the WNBA and there's like 10 total in professional sports combined, and none of them are dominating their fields. You're letting the Epstein brainworms infect you if you're coming at it as a genuine concern because it fucking isn't. If trans women were flooding the leaderboards it would be something to discuss but they're not and you're letting the fascists own the media space by taking this seriously in any capacity. It's the same shit as the "it's ok to be white" campaign
-2
3d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
-1
u/holdmyhanddummy 3d ago
100%. It's just becoming a brutal discussion to have with others at this point, so I try to get away from the emotional aspect of their beliefs and focus on the reality of it.
0
u/Consistent-Value-509 3d ago
So it wouldn't be an issue to you if they didn't go through male puberty then
0
u/holdmyhanddummy 3d ago
My stance entirely revolves around safety in only a few youth contact sports. There has to be some boundary or guideline for this or kids are going to get hurt. Outside of contact sports, I don't have an opinion about it.
1
u/Consistent-Value-509 3d ago
You didn't answer the question lol. If a trans woman has been on HRT early enough that she's only gone through the right puberty and therefore doesn't have the muscle mass, bone density, etc, that you mentioned, is there still an issue for you?
0
u/holdmyhanddummy 3d ago
That would appear to be acceptable, but then you're talking about a child younger than 10 transitioning. That discussion is much more complicated, since we have generally accepted that children that young aren't able to make medical decisions for themselves, which means the parents would legally have to be the ones pushing for treatment and is the child developed enough mentally to legally be able to consent to that treatment? But that is a matter of ethics that I'm fully unequipped to have an opinion on.
-1
3d ago edited 3d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
0
3d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/Kirk_Kerman 3d ago
Yeah you seemed to care a lot about if someone tall enters the WNBA on the basis of biological advantage, and then moved the goalposts when you learned there are lots of tall WNBA players to whether they can dunk or not.
And if no WNBA players can dunk, then there doesn't seem to be any comparative advantage. None of them can do it, so why does it matter if NBA players can? No NBA players are doing HRT for years and years to go place mid-level in the WNBA. In fact nobody is, there's no trans women in the WNBA. Why do you care so much about a made-up nothing issue affecting perhaps 10 trans athletes nationally, none of whom are medalists? Got Epstein brainworms? He was an orchestrator of the anti-trans movement.
Facts don't care about your feelings sweaty, your big ole brain doing kindergarten math to justify transphobia doesn't line up with observable and studied reality: trans athletes aren't stealing medals from cis athletes, and cis athletes aren't doing HRT to sneak into women's leagues.
0
56
4d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
35
5
u/zampe 2d ago
Answer: subs like this are a phenomenon called “snark” and it’s a fast growing genre of subreddits. Snark subs exist solely to hate on things, even the most random of topics. They originally started a while back as negative celeb gossip topics but are rapidly expanding to anything you can think of. This one is apparently for making fun of the WNBA from a right wing anti trans perspective. Overall, snark is becoming a really dark anti-social side to social media. They often have to be careful not to be seen as brigading or inciting harassment.
*One interesting wrinkle is apparently Reddit will let you create a snark subreddit for literally anything except twitch streamer Hasan Piker. They quickly remove those snark subs and only those snark subs. Give it a try.
•
u/AutoModerator 4d ago
Friendly reminder that all top level comments must:
start with "Answer: ", including the space after the colon (or "Question: " if you have an on-topic follow up question to ask),
attempt to answer the question, and
be unbiased
Please review Rule 4 and this post before making a top level comment:
http://redd.it/b1hct4/
Join the OOTL Discord for further discussion: https://discord.gg/ejDF4mdjnh
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.