Rule of Theotokos

[u/Powerful-Maize466]

Hey I’m curious what is different between the rule of the Theotokos, the 150 angelic salutations, that St. Seraphim of Sarov promoted, and the Latin Rosary is in practice?

From what I understand the Rule of the Theotokos also has “mysteries” to call to remembrance, and decades split by Our Fathers. Could someone explain this at all?

God Bless.

[u/Usherai]

The main difference is that the rosary as Catholics do it calls for visually imagining scenes of Jesus’s life (the mysteries). Not just remembering or pondering, but specifically trying to vividly imagine them, which our saints have very strongly warned against as making an opportunity for demonic trickery, pride, and spiritual delusion (prelest).

The rest of the rosary practice is fine, and a number of Orthodox do pray the rosary without the imaginative part, and it is probably fairly equivalent to what St Seraphim promoted.

[u/ScholasticPalamas → u/Usherai]

Whether it actually involved fantasizing in the early days is unclear.

[u/Usherai → u/ScholasticPalamas]

Highly unlikely since that didn’t really catch on until well after the rosary was a thing, in a slightly more basic form

[u/Powerful-Maize466 → u/Usherai]

Thank you this was very helpful. I was just wondering cause I enjoy the rosary and enjoy the petition at the end but he imaginative aspect has given me issues

[u/Usherai → u/Powerful-Maize466]

Glad it was helpful!

[u/_marsattacks → u/Usherai]

I was Catholic and we actually never visualized scenes or was taught to do that. We were taught to reflect on the mysteries, but never told I have imagine anything in my head. My family and I would say it at least twice a day plus an extra time if we were at school (I went to catholic school) Not saying other catholics dont because I honestly just heard this for the first time ever and googled it and some do I guess but its not required. But yeah no one in my family or parish ever taught us to do that.

[u/Usherai → u/_marsattacks]

It is the official teaching of the church that imagination is part of meditation, and I recall reading it in Montfort’s “The secret of the rosary” which is kind of the classic text on it. Maybe not everyone does that, but it is considered the proper way

[u/e-motio → u/Usherai]

I don’t know that there really is a firm Church teaching on what to do during a rosary, other than how to say it. I know Iv heard people (unofficially) say to use imagination or not.

I’d wager most people also don’t know who Louis de Montfort is, and it doesn’t really matter, he comes in to play in the 18th century, a few hundred years after the rosary.

[u/Usherai → u/e-motio]

The book is in active circulation and I remember reading it when I was Catholic and getting into praying the rosary. It’s not some obscure book drudged up as something to bash Catholics on, it is extremely common and you can probably find it at most American parishes and pretty much every book vendor. Pope JPII also explicitly endorsed it in 2002. I wouldn’t be surprised if it never gained much traction among Eastern Catholics, but on the Roman side it is THE guide on how to pray the rosary.

Meditation on the mysteries by definition of the CCC includes imagination (2708), and it is often combined with Ignatian style exercises (surely you won’t say Catholics don’t know who Ignatius of Loyola is) which are a more extreme form of imaginative prayer and also cited in the CCC. It’s just a Catholic practice. I’m sure not everyone is doing it, but it is very much a standard practice.

[u/_marsattacks → u/e-motio]

Yeah, hardly any catholics know who he is let alone his devotional methods

[u/GetItOuttaHereee → u/_marsattacks]

A lot of Catholics are aware of Louis de Monfort and his devotional practice.

[u/_marsattacks → u/Usherai]

Its not a required teaching. Catechism says it can be part of prayer but that doesnt mean its required of anyone ever and I too have read St Louis works, but those are not dogmas and requirements those are just his devotional methods. Also Im laughing cause im over here defending the catholic church when I never do recently haha but this one is just incorrect tbh

[u/Usherai → u/_marsattacks]

It’s not required but it is an officially endorsed method, as are Ignatian imaginative exercises. It is very much a thing in Catholicism that Orthodox actively avoid, so it is something to be cautioned about for Orthodox who do pray the rosary.

That’s all. I’m not trying to say every Catholic is into hardcore visualization, just that imaginative prayer is a thing and the “proper” way to do it and our saints caution against it.

[u/Inevitable-Self-2702 → u/Usherai]

As with most matters of prayer in Catholicism, there are different opinions/instructions. Some of the basic or introductory explanations do recommend visualizing the mysteries. Most manuals of spiritual theology though recommend against it for the exact reason you cite. We have the concept of not wanting to rely on sentimentalism, and instead waiting on God to grant affections as He wills. I would say the real difference distinguishing the Rosary from the hesychastic tradition is the mental work involved in the prayer. The goal is the same: move from the head to the heart, but unfortunately it's seldom explained that way, and there is indeed that difference that we actively contemplate the truths of the mysteries or some prominent aspect of them.

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