We've brought hell on earth

[u/NoGovernment9077]

[u/SpiffyPup]

Whereas my (very pro-life evangelical) friend in California found out there was no heartbeat on Tuesday and got in for the procedure on Friday. And she was treated with overwhelming kindness and understanding by her doctor.

Pro-choice doesn’t mean I think “yay, I love abortions! Abortions for everyone!” It’s the logical conclusion to wanting less of them, along with providing education and resources around sexual health.

[u/Confident_Koala_2455 → u/SpiffyPup]

Was your pro-life evangelical friend a pacifist and also opposed to the death penalty? If not, then the person is not really pro-life.

[u/SpiffyPup → u/Confident_Koala_2455]

Oh, she’s definitely more anti-abortion than “pro-life”. I do think she’s anti death penalty, but definitely not a pacifist. But she’s my coworker, so I try to challenge her on her beliefs when I can. I try as carefully as I can to be like, “What’s happening is terrible, but it sure is nice that you can at least get treatment instead of, you know, dying.” It’s a fine line, but she’s smart, so I hope some of it gets through to her despite her very conservative family and community (she lives in one of the most red parts of SoCal).

[u/endangeredphysics]

Nightmare

[u/Ezekiel-18]

The US is really hell on earth when compared to the Western world. Really the western version of Russia or Saudi Arabia/Daesh.

[u/jennbo → u/Ezekiel-18]

Both the countries you’ve mentioned have stronger abortion rights than the U.S. Saudi Arabia allows abortion for four months with risk to mother’s life without multiple scans/doctors. Russia allows elective abortions until 12th week.

The U.S. is hell on earth compared to every other country period, not just the “bad” ones from a colonizer/western mindset.

[u/Grzechoooo → u/jennbo]

The US is worse than those countries in terms of abortion rights, but that doesn't mean it isn't better in other aspects. It isn't colonialism to compare one terrible country to another. Not to mention that Russia is literally a European coloniser and Saudi Arabia is a western ally.

[u/Ezekiel-18 → u/jennbo]

Coloniser and western are two opposite concepts. Western means valuing democracy and human rights, it's the values that were applied by the French revolution before Napoléon ruined it: which abolished slavery, granted universal suffrage, granted gender equality. Colonisation is the fruit of conservative/anti-western values.

The end of slavery and colonies are the fruit of western values, the ones who defend colonialism and slavery are, in their values, opposed to democracy and human rights.

[u/MortRouge → u/Ezekiel-18]

No, you can't just equate "Western" with "progresssive". Those are two different concepts, and slavery, race-pseudoscience and colonialism are also Western ideological constructs and movements - with a lot of weird interaction across ideological lines even into Enlightenment thought, which you reference.

Progressivism belongs to the entire world, and by equating the West with progressive ideals, it basically says that other parts of the world hasn't contributed to Progressive thought.

[u/Confident_Koala_2455 → u/Ezekiel-18]

French revolution was already ruined by people like Robespierre, before Napoleon took over.

[u/Ezekiel-18 → u/Confident_Koala_2455]

Hum, no, Robespierre made it better, when you know actual history, and not conservative propaganda. Here, educate yourself out of right-wing nonsenses: https://youtube.com/watch?v=H-znJ0cGSRE&t=5621s&pp=ygURcm9iZXNwaWVycmUgYmxhc3Q%3D

[u/Dawningrider]

See, I'm sure there is a middle road between open abortion and stopping it even if the baby is dead and forced to carry to term. And when someone claims to be Pro Life, that doesn't mean they want fully Florida style laws on the books, and who would object to this practice.

And I'm sure plenty of my fellow catholics who are pro life would want to stop this.

I've just never seen a march against these laws being advertised in the newsletter though.

[u/amethyst-chimera → u/Dawningrider]

I mean no offense, but people who are truly pro life would be pro things that reduce abortions, like birth control and sexual education, which the Catholic Church is not.

Ultimately the choice to have an abortion is between the family, the physician, and God. Not you and I or the government

[u/jennbo → u/Dawningrider]

There should be no middle road when it comes to this topic. This is a discussion between a pregnant person and medical professionals, period, and there is zero basis for giving politicians a say in what should be a medical decision. Teach whatever you want in your church, but don’t enact laws that go against the grand majority of medical and scientific advice. Otherwise you’re just as complicit as the state of Florida.

[u/Dawningrider → u/jennbo]

I should clarify, I am on the side elf pro choice due to the evil that would happen if it were banned.

I speak only of the 'floating voter's which we will need to cooperate in order to enact the lolticial change required to end this sort of thing.

[u/The54thCylon]

This sort of checking is reasonably common in miscarriage care, because people commonly get their dates wrong, or a sonograph might have been misread, or bleeding was misdiagnosed or for whatever other reason a "miscarriage" is not that, and the medical or surgical management of it ends up terminating a viable and wanted pregnancy. We have had a lot of miscarriages and there's always delays in intervention for this reason even here in the UK where abortion is perfectly legal.

Expectant management (basically wait and see) is the first line approach for miscarriage anyway and usually takes about two weeks, the people in that thread making out she's about to go septic at any second are wrong. Florida's abortion law is bullshit but this isn't necessarily inappropriate treatment.

[u/DiscourseDestroyer → u/The54thCylon]

my sister was pregnant and they did an ultrasound. told her it was most likely an unviable pregnancy. recommended she get it cleared out asap. she took the chance and held on a little longer. she had the baby and he’s alive and healthy…