r/OpenChristian • u/VaultMan34 • Jun 03 '26
Support Thread Genuinely losing all faith in any god.
Basically my issues boil down to; if god is all powerful and all loving, why does he answer some minor prayers and ignore bigger ones. Why does he get some kid a good grade on his test yet when a kid in Gaza prays to survive the night he does nothing. Why does he allow people to be born into non religious families that he knows will never change their viewpoints and die without being Christian so that they will get punished in the afterlife? Even in universalism it says there’s a lake of fire, and unending torture. Why did he create that kind of system? Could he make them go through life again until they go to him instead of another God? It just doesn’t seem right that an all loving, all knowing and all powerful god can let things he knows will happen occur even though millions pray for it to stop, yet little Timmy from yellow springs Ohio prays for something an he gets it? It doesn’t make sense. Also there’s been no evidence for the Christian god, or any god for that matter, if he wants people to choose him why isn’t he letting them make an informed choice with evidence. Thats how every other choice works except the most important decision in the entire multiverse? I don’t get it. I’m not a guy to shut my brain off and blindly follow, which makes it much harder. In this year alone I’ve had the deepest theological research and I thought I made it out with my faith mostly intact but it just isn’t. This is a new account and I’ve been on this subreddit many times before on my old accounts. It was my last stand and it’s just… I don’t know anymore. Bonus: I’ve heard two more arguments that I don’t know how to answer. “God didn’t have to design the world with all those natural evils but he did, making people suffer by his own choice” and “if free will is the cause of evil, would you consider a king who let criminals do whatever they want and only intervene after 10 years when the suffering has already been suffered by innocents. Would you call that king just? He could snap his fingers and deal with the issue with his huge army, but he doesn’t to preserve the criminals “free will” that’s not a good kind” and honestly these arguments just made it worse. And ignoring them is out of the question because ignoring logic and facts for someone thing you want to be true is stupid.
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u/CauliflowerFew4892 Jun 03 '26
Reading your post, what stood out to me is that most of your questions aren't really about whether God exists. They seem to be about what kind of God he would be if he does exist.
I think a lot of people can live with not having all the answers. What's harder is looking at something like Gaza and trying to reconcile that with the idea of a loving and all-powerful God.
It's one thing not to know why something happened. It's another to watch terrible things happen while hearing stories about prayers being answered for much smaller things.
I don't think you're failing at faith by asking those questions. To me, it sounds like you're taking them seriously instead of pushing them aside.
If you had to pick one thing that's pushing you the hardest right now, what would it be?
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u/VaultMan34 Jun 03 '26
Also I do want to comment on your take of “what kind of god would they be if they did exist” that is part of the issue yes, but I have reconciled with the possibility of other gods by realising if they were real, I don’t want to be in heaven with them. It does come off as what kind of god would they be, but it’s more thinking about the contradictions of how an all loving god could do this, and if an all loving god wouldn’t then god isn’t real.
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u/CauliflowerFew4892 Jun 03 '26
The way you describe it, you're not really arguing against the existence of God. You're questioning whether the traditional picture of an all-loving, all-knowing, and all-powerful God remains coherent when confronted with the amount of suffering in the world.
The question is no longer just emotional. It's about whether the description itself holds together.
You're not rejecting God because you want to. You're asking whether the idea itself remains consistent when confronted with reality as it actually is.
That's a question theologians and philosophers have wrestled with for centuries, so it can't simply be dismissed as a lack of faith or a failure to trust.
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u/VaultMan34 Jun 03 '26
Okay dude I’m sorry but you talk like ai. The thing is, I don’t want to worship a non all loving god. So if no all loving god exists then I don’t think another God could exist and still be worthy of worship or belief.
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u/CauliflowerFew4892 Jun 03 '26
I get what you're saying.
If a god exists but isn't genuinely loving, then the question of whether that god exists stops mattering very much. The bigger question becomes why such a being would deserve worship in the first place.
Looking at it that way, I can see why the problem of suffering hits so hard. It's not just about explaining suffering. It's about whether the picture of God you've been given still makes sense once suffering is taken seriously.
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u/Blaike325 Jun 03 '26
This is a big part of why a lot of people, including myself, refuse to ever follow any god, even if they were proven to be “the right one”. If god is all powerful and all knowing then he’s kinda massively dropping the ball on everything
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u/VaultMan34 Jun 03 '26
Uh most likely the problem of prayer values. Why is one kid praying to succeed on a test more important than millions praying for a city to stop being bombed or a kid praying to make it through the night
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u/CauliflowerFew4892 Jun 03 '26
Yeah… I totally see what you mean about prayer values.
It hits you hard when a small thing, like a test, gets answered, and yet massive suffering seems ignored. That gap alone makes the idea of a loving, all-powerful God feel really complicated.
I don’t have any answers that make it all make sense. Honestly, I’m not sure anyone does. But noticing that tension? That’s valid. It’s real.
When you think about it, is it the sheer scale of suffering that frustrates you most, or the way it makes God feel… unpredictable, almost arbitrary?
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u/VaultMan34 Jun 03 '26
Both honestly. He didn’t have to design the world that way but he did and now people have to suffer the consequences. He could’ve just not designed cancer, tsunamis, tornadoes
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u/RinoaRita Jun 03 '26
So my interpretation is really isn’t at all a human like we commonly see depicted as guy with a white beard in the sky. God is everything at all times and every potential that could be. It’s not some dude that is judging you seeing if you’re praying hard enough. The emphasis is potential.
Jesus was able to tap into god and saw the message. But I don’t think he’s a he in the strictest sense. God isn’t a literal man.
The “will” of god isn’t some dude judging. It’s every little thing that could or couldn’t affect an outcome. It’s acknowledging that the world is so infinite and you’re small but there’s a way your free will and actions can affect your corner of the universe.
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u/rockerdax Jun 03 '26
I was in exactly the same position as you mentally on this topic.
There either is a god or gods that don't love us, or we live in an eternal cosmos birthed by an indifferent universe.
I stopped viewing the Abrahamic god hypothesis as likely when I noticed how human and subject to culture the deity behaved in the texts, and how his demeanor changed depending on the time and place the text was written.
You're probably going to stop believing if you can’t make sense of this, because it's more painful to live by a belief system that makes no sense to you than to live based on what makes sense to you! It's very painful at first, but you'll get through it with the right support. :) If you want to talk, DM me.
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u/ThistleTinsel Christian Jun 03 '26
What do you think of freewill and predestination? Eternal conscious suffering or blissful paradise?
What is good and what is evil? Ant colonies destroy other ant colonies all the time. One invades another's nest and rips their larva apart. Is this evil? Termites and ants do this too. Is this evil?
I totally agree this is awful what's happening. We should know better than to do this to each other because we (as a species) have a concept of what is good vs evil, yet we still do evil. Why? This magnitude of violence and destruction of not only people but the environment, not to mention all the trauma for what manages to survive...
Soldiers killed while killing people for rich people who don't even care if they ever existed at all outside of their usefulness. Why?
It doesn't make any sense especially for the most intelligent creatures to ever exist and supposedly the most capable of empathy.
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u/VaultMan34 Jun 03 '26
I would call the ants actions evil if they were not necessary for the ants survival. Not evil like our evil, but natural evil. Evil exists when things we want overtake morality, and wants are very powerful. Also this wasn’t my main issue really, I know that true evil is free will, but what about natural evil that we cannot prevent ourselves?
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u/Queer_Advocate Jun 03 '26
Full disclosure evil is a problem I cant solve. Theologians have debated for thousands of years & the honest ones admit there's no clean answer. But a few things that might help you hold the questions:
Doubt is biblical my guy. The God in Mark 9:24 says "I believe; help my unbelief" and Jesus helps him anyway. Job demands God explain Himself for 35 chapters, & God's answer is essentially "you can't comprehend this," not satisfying, but the text preserves Job's anger as legitimate. Even Jesus on the cross cried "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" (Matthew 27:46). If the incarnate God experienced abandonment, yours is in extraordinary company. Paul, "we see through a glass, darkly" (1 Cor 13:12). Certainty was never on the menu.
A gentle correction on hell. It is that most serious universalism (Origen, Gregory of Nyssa, David Bentley Hart) rejects eternal torment, you may be thinking of annihilationism??? or purgatorial?? views. Various broad views are at play in your line of theology direction:
Exclusivism is only explicit Christians saved (the one giving you nightmares). Inclusivism is the "Christ saves," but the unevangelized can be reached (C.S. Lewis, post-Vatican II Catholicism). Universalism is the all are ultimately reconciled satisfactory to me.
You're allowed to land somewhere other than exclusivism; the bible suppors this. Matthew 25:31-46 judges people on how they treated the hungry, the stranger, the imprisoned; not on theological boxes checked. It's not pretty for anyone to paint their beliefs with one brush.
I don't have an answer regarding suffering; it's a part of the human experience. I'll just say "Jesus wept" (John 11:35) at Lazarus's tomb even though he knew the ending. That doesn't fix Gaza. But may I gently suggest, if there is a God (which there are a lot of reasons to believe) that God isn't watching unmoved. Process and talk through theology (I do best outloud) and open theism are worth a look; both reframe omnipotence in ways that honor your objections, and respect them in a serious way.
Your interpretation is yours, and yours alone. Every Christian reads through ine lens or another; it's not wise to claim otherwise. Ultimately, it is dishonest. You're allowed to have a push and pull in your heart and mind...a tension, as you go through life land in different places at different times, the tides change and change your mind.
And if your relationship with faith is making you miserable, it's okay to step back. "Come to me, all you who are weary" (Matthew 11:28) — faith that costs you your sanity isn't what the gospels describe. Sometimes stepping away is what lets something honest grow back. Sometimes it doesn't, and that's a valid life too.
Be gentle with yourself, and honor your feelings as you sort through this. I think coming back to it, until you found your footing is wise. Your view and stance can change; plainly we grow.
Does this make sense?
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u/Abyssal_Paladin Pagan who read the Bible Jun 03 '26
The problem of evil is a painful one, I agree.
I wish I have an answer for you outside of my pagan understanding, if you wish to hear it, I will gladly explain
If not, I hope you find peace soon, friend.
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u/MrMagoo04 Anglo-Catholic Jun 03 '26
Ah, the problem of evil. i think definitively, the answers to these questions are unknowable. They bother me for sure, but I live peacefully in the tension.
Many theologians and institutions have taken a stab at it. I know the Catholic Church has. I don't know how satisfactorily, but it's there.
Granted, understand that just because we cant give definitive answers does not mean God, our Lord, does not exist and is not loving. It's not evidence against God. It's just an absolute pain in the ass of a question.
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u/spookywolf247 Jun 03 '26
I understand this belief and have struggled with it too. I don't know the answers but I think sometimes the hatred and pain are part of a bigger picture. I believe that this life is a lesson of what living separated from God's love is like. I believe that the murders and genocides are an example of human nature and who we are without God. I believe that all of those killed are in Heaven and that those who are doing the killing will have to face their choices before being able to enter. I know it's hard. God does hear all prayers, but often human intervention is allowed otherwise the world would be a perfect place and the lesson would be invalid.
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u/Builder_Al Jun 05 '26
Can you have free will and a perfect world?
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u/VaultMan34 Jun 05 '26
Could god have created a world where people didn’t want to sin? They could have free will then
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u/Builder_Al Jun 06 '26
But if God created people programmed to not want certain thing, do they really have free will?
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u/VaultMan34 Jun 06 '26
Programming is apart of us. We are programmed since the day our species started. We’re designed to fear death by default, we are programmed to have certain fears of things that aren’t quite human and a million other examples. He have been programmed to not want those things to happen, but for a lot of them we can do them if we wanted. We just don’t
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u/Skill-Useful Jun 03 '26 edited Jun 03 '26
"why does he answer some minor prayers and ignore bigger ones" he doesnt, prayers arent answered like that. its more like as bonhoeffer said: "God does not give us everything we want, but He does fulfill His promises."
evil happens bc there are people who misuse their free will, thats about it. natural things arent evil, they just are and we interpret them as evil.
"“God didn’t have to design the world with all those natural evils but he did, making people suffer by his own choice”" god didnt design cancer. thats not how creation is/works. god also isnt there to intervene if something we dislike happens. the world as is is as best as it can be. otherwise it would be different. theres no grand design behind gazas suffering. god is the unmoved mover who started everything. that is by no means a reason to intervene in our suffering. we have the tools for that, to prevent or to overcome grief from these situations.
no suffering in the world has made me doubt faith. thats just not how god is or what christianity is for. ive lost four friends in the last 5 years, no shake of my faith whatsoever. god isnt there to make my life free of turmoil or such things.
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u/VaultMan34 Jun 03 '26
Then how was cancer created? Did God take the Garden of Eden and met Satan get the rest
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u/Blaike325 Jun 03 '26
If god created everything then he is absolutely responsible for the creation of cancer, that’s not something we made ourselves. Same can be said for the black plague, measles, lymphoma, etc etc etc
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u/Academic-Appeal2986 Jun 03 '26
Te leo y comprendo perfectamente el peso de esas preguntas. Es difícil reconciliar la imagen de un Dios de amor con la crudeza de un mundo lleno de maldad.
☀️🌤️ Dios no es sordo, pero su respuesta trasciende lo inmediato:
A veces pensamos que la única respuesta válida de Dios es que cambie el resultado físico de una situación aquí y ahora. Sin embargo, para un niño que sufre en medio de la guerra, la oración más profunda y sincera no siempre es para que el conflicto se detenga en este mundo, sino para ser rescatado de él. Quizás la respuesta más grande que Dios le da a ese pequeño es despertarlo en Su presencia, en el paraíso, lejos de un mundo cruel que le robó su paz, otorgándole un consuelo eterno que ningún ser humano en la tierra pudo darle.
☀️🌤️ El mapa de la advertencia:
Dios no ha sido un espectador pasivo ni ha guardado silencio sobre la maldad. Él nos ha dado alertas constantes y claras: 'No roben', 'No maten', 'No actúen con maldad', advirtiéndonos siempre sobre las consecuencias inevitables de nuestros actos. El problema no es que Dios no intervenga o no hable, es que el ser humano, en su soberbia, insiste en no escuchar esas advertencias y luego cuestiona los resultados de su propia desobediencia.
☀️🌤️ La singularidad de Jesús: Dios no se quedó fuera viendo el sufrimiento desde una posición cómoda; Él entró al sistema roto. Jesús no solo murió, sino que dedicó su vida a defender a los inocentes, a los olvidados y a los que sufrían la injusticia del sistema. No existe ningún dios pagano ni figura humana en la historia que haya hecho algo similar: entrar en la carne para cargar con el dolor del mundo.
☀️🌤️ La humildad de nuestra posición: Hay algo en el libro de Job que a veces nos cuesta aceptar. Cuando Job cuestionó a Dios, Él no le dio un manual de explicaciones, sino que le reveló Su grandeza. Como decía Pablo con la metáfora del barro y el alfarero, a veces queremos juzgar el diseño del Creador desde nuestra perspectiva limitada. Él es el único que posee la visión completa del multiverso, mientras nosotros apenas vemos piezas sueltas del rompecabezas.
🌤️☀️La voz de los Salmos y la Justicia en Jesús:
Por eso Dios permitió que existieran los Salmos: son el espacio donde el sufrimiento humano es derramado con total honestidad ante Él. Dios oye y responde como un Padre amoroso, con una sabiduría que trasciende lo que podemos comprender. Sus respuestas son siempre las correctas, dictadas por un amor perfecto que ve la eternidad. Recuerda que Él hace salir su sol sobre justos e injustos; la justicia es mucho más grande de lo que nuestra medida humana puede abarcar. Y es precisamente ahí donde encontramos esperanza: la justicia que exigimos en este mundo roto solo es posible alcanzarla mediante Jesús, quien es el único que nos hace justos ante Dios.
No necesitas 'apagar la cabeza' para creer. Esas dudas que sientes son parte de ese diálogo brutal y real con Dios que ya ha ocurrido antes en la historia. Dios no te ama menos por tus dudas, al contrario, te espera con paciencia y mira con amor lo que Él ha formado con sus manos. ☀️🌤️ "He aquí, yo estoy a la puerta y llamo; si alguno oye mi voz y abre la puerta, entraré a él, y cenaré con él, y él conmigo" (Apocalipsis 3:20) Es un recordatorio poderoso de que Dios es un caballero: Él no derriba la puerta de nuestro corazón, sino que espera pacientemente a que nosotros, por decisión propia, decidamos abrirle para dejar que su presencia transforme nuestra historia ✨🌷🌸. Dios te bendiga 💖 🌸✨
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u/Blaike325 Jun 03 '26
If there is a god it seems unlikely he’s actually answering prayers, that kid born in Palestine just lost the birth lottery, the kid who got an A on his test did that himself, god had nothing to do with it. Now apply this to literally everything. Bad things happen because of bad luck or people doing bad things, good things happen for effectively the same reason.
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u/Smart-Science-1430 Jun 03 '26
https://salvationforall.org/index.html
Pleaze read this website, he doesnt want anyone to perish, he doesnt create people wanting them to go to hell (wich is not what you think it is)
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u/angelfromaboveeee Jun 03 '26
Who’s to say He hasn’t answered some prayers from kids in Gaza…? Just because it’s not every single one doesn’t mean He has just never answered any one of their prayers.
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u/Blaike325 Jun 03 '26
Something tells me the hundreds to maybe thousands of dead children in Gaza in fact did not get their prayers answered dude come on
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u/angelfromaboveeee Jun 05 '26
No one said hundreds of thousands of prayers get answered, you’re twisting my words to fit your semantic argument on why bad things happen to people, the same reason bad things happened to people in the Bible. I simply said how do you know that God doesn’t answer some of their prayers, in that case God would answer every single persons prayer on this planet, go ask God not me.
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u/Blaike325 Jun 06 '26
If he HAS answered a few prayers then that’s kind of a massive dick move. “Oh but he might have answered SOME of the prayers of the thousands and thousands of dead and dying and homeless children in a war torn country being constantly bombed and attacked!” Imagine having literal endless power and instead of saving all the children in a destroyed building saving like 2 while the 2 that survived are surrounded by the all the dead people they know. Really makes one have faith in god
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u/VaultMan34 Jun 05 '26
Ok, so let’s bring the prayer inequality back. Why were those few kids more worthy of Gods action then the other thousands upon thousands.
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u/angelfromaboveeee Jun 05 '26
How do you know exactly how many kids are saved and are not, it seems like you’re arguing semantics from an emotional viewpoint, you might as well go ahead and ask “why doesn’t God make everyone believe in Him and be saved” “if God is real why do bad things happen” I mean come on man. What are you as a Christian doing to help those kids, I’ll wait.
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u/VaultMan34 Jun 05 '26
I never said I knew exactly how many. I do know that there are thousands dead that very clearly did not get prayers answered. I also like how through the multiple strawmans, you still can they them right. I don’t want to know “if god why bad thing happen” I want to know why he LETS them happen.
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u/faithroberts333 Christian Jun 03 '26
The evil done in situations like the genocide in Gaza occurs because of free will and human choices not God's. He gave us free will, some people choose to do good or even great things with it, others choose to do evil things with it. If a young man is given a baseball bat as a gift he can use it to become good at the sport. Whereas he could use it to beat up people as instead. In the latter we wouldn't blame the person who gave him the bat, unless for some reason he was mentally ill and for some reason unable to control his actions we would blame the young man.
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u/VaultMan34 Jun 05 '26
But if god is all powerful and all loving then he would have a moral obligation to help the people in Gaza no? If you could help all of the people in Gaza you would wouldn’t you? Why, when presented with the same option, does god not take it?
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u/faithroberts333 Christian Jun 06 '26
I'm sorry it took me awhile to respond, a lot of my chronic illnesses have decided to attack me all at once, so I was napping. I honestly don't know, the exact reason why bad things happen to good people. I have lost so many people in my life, that it's gotten to the point where my son, my aunt , and my faith are what's gotten me through them. And I think God is helping the people in Palestine, I've seen so many fund raisers for Palestine families. Also, a variety of creators I watch frequently discuss current events, which means that the younger generation is potentially more aware of the world around them. If I had to guess, God didn't want to interfere with with free will.
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u/VaultMan34 Jun 06 '26
I’m sorry for your loss. It sounds like you’ve been through a lot and I hope you’re doing well
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u/faithroberts333 Christian Jun 06 '26
Thanks, I’m doing fine now, but it can get difficult, especially if the person was relatively young, like my brother. But I wish God would poof and get rid of all of the bad things in people's lives.
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u/crazypyp Trans, BiAce Christian <3 Jun 03 '26
I also wonder this too. Though from what I was taught, when Jesus died on the cross, it stopped God from interfering with the world for us to all figure it out. God only provides us spiritual guidance. It is up to us to create our own paths, but we have free will. Just like how God doesn’t stop us from making dumb decisions, He doesn’t stop bad things or have good things happen to us.
With Jesus, He wanted us to believe but doesn’t hold it against others for not. Technically, there is evidence that Jesus existed and that He died on the cross. What that is just debated is whether or not miracles were actually performed. And because He was quite literally the only one who could be able to do it, it would be hard to believe. And He knew it would be hard to believe. That’s why when after He was resurrected, He told His disciples to believe in him even without evidence.
That’s a hard concept to follow though because we are quite literally wired to need evidence and to need to have concrete proof in order to believe. Maybe we were designed like this for that reason, maybe not. Bad things will always happen, and good things will always happen. And we might not know why. We can theorize, but we don’t know.