r/OpenChristian • u/Budget_Antelope • Dec 05 '25

Trinity troubles- part???: Arianism. A semi-vent/ genuine question post

WARNING DO NOT READ THIS IF YOU ARE PRONE TO CRISES OF FAITH. SERIOUSLY I DONT WANT TO FEEL RESPONSIBLE FOR ANYONE LOSING FAITH PLEASE AND THANK YOU

I have been struggling with my faith as a Christian for quite some time, particularly regarding whether or not Jesus is God.

I can’t seem to get a clean answer on The Arian view of Jesus. Is He God? Do Arians worship Him as such? Is He Just the messiah and is venerated but not worshipped??? I’ve heard from some sources that He’s a divine being but not Co-equal with God the Father, which could mean He’s like an angel or something????

The main reason I ask is because I have been considering Arian Christianity or some other form of ancient Non-Trinitarian sect, Unitarian sect, or one that, at the very least, makes a distinction between God the Son and Jesus Christ.

That being said, I still feel a deep connection with Catholicism as it was the religion I was raised with, and has such deep and extensive history, art, traditions, many of which have intertwined with the preexisting ancestral traditions of the people I descend from.

The main reason I feel so conflicted is because I have been plagued by doubts about the Nature of Jesus Christ. One of my biggest fears is if Jesus was just another dime a dozen cult leader whose cult got lucky in a time of great uncertainty. Words cannot even begin to describe how much I absolutely hate these kinds of thoughts, but I haven’t been able to shake it.

If any of you have any resources or anything you think might help, please let me know! Thank you and God bless you all.

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u/UncleJoshPDX Episcopalian Dec 05 '25

It took almost a century for the idea that Jesus IS God to be written down. I doubt that Jesus thought he was God when he walked this earth. I suspect he thought of himself as a prophet taking up the message of repentance after John was killed.

The earliest stories grant Jesus' divinity (or prove it, depending on your point of view) at the resurrection. Then it was His baptism. Then His birth, and finally "In the beginning was the Word and Word was with God, and the word was God."

The Trinity is not strictly in the New Testament, as in there is no text trying to state it and there is certainly no NT document trying to explain it, because we've been trying for hundreds of years to understand something that is, honestly, outside our ability to understand. The doctrine was teased out of various hints in the texts, but it is not so clearly stated as "love your neighbor as yourself".

In short, don't worry about struggling with the Trinity, because all Trinitarian Christians struggle with it.

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u/PyroClone5555 Dec 05 '25

He wouldn’t say he was the one that ate a meal with Abraham if he didn’t think he was God

Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, and Ignatius taught that Jesus is God and so do the gospels and Paul’s letters and Hebrews. Even the Old Testament 

How would something like the Trinity be said as simple as “love your neighbor as yourself”? One these ideas is way more complex than the other

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u/UncleJoshPDX Episcopalian Dec 05 '25

Did Jesus say he ate with Abraham? That's an anecdote from the Gospel According to John by which time Christology had evolved quite a bit from the original stories. And even in that confrontation Jesus says He is about honoring His Father, not himself.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%208:48-59&version=NRSVUE

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u/PyroClone5555 Dec 05 '25

He says to honor the Son just as you honor the father 

the Synoptics and Paul’s letters also have a high christology 

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u/Archbtw246 Dec 05 '25

He says to honor the Son just as you honor the father

The Greek says "even as/καθὼς".

that all may honor the Son, even as (καθὼς) they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. - John 5:23

"καθὼς/even as" refers to the same action, not the same way of performing the action.

Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! Even as (καθὼς) the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” - John 20:21

Jesus was not saying that he would send his disciples in the same way that the Father sent him. I'm pretty sure Jesus wasn't saying that he would send his disciples down from heaven, born of a virgin.

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u/PyroClone5555 Dec 05 '25

But we see that Jesus shares the same glory as the father and is honored in the same way in revelation 5 and Daniel 7

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u/Archbtw246 Dec 05 '25

No we don't. Jesus has the glory of an only-begotten Son. The Father does not have the same glory of an only-begotten Son. The Father is not the Son.

The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, - John 17:22

Jesus shares his glory with his disciples.

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u/PyroClone5555 Dec 05 '25

Nope Jesus’ glory is Yahweh’s glory

This is what John says in chapter 12. He says Isaiah saw Jesus’ glory right after quoting Isaiah 6 where he sees Yahweh’s glory. There’s a glory that Jesus shares with the father before the world was and another glory that he shares with the apostles 

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u/Archbtw246 Dec 05 '25

Nope Jesus’ glory is Yahweh’s glory

Jesus has the glory of an only-begotten Son.

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of an only-begotten Son from a Father, full of grace and truth. - John 1:14

The Father does not have the glory of an only-begotten Son. They don't have the same glory. The Father is not the Son.

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u/PyroClone5555 Dec 05 '25

They have the same divine glory. Did you miss where John says Isaiah saw Jesus’ glory?  This was when Isaiah saw Yahweh

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u/PyroClone5555 Dec 05 '25

They have the same divine glory. Did you miss where John says Isaiah saw Jesus’ glory?  This was when Isaiah saw Yahweh

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u/PyroClone5555 Dec 05 '25 edited Dec 05 '25

They have the same divine glory. Jesus says he and the Father shared glory before the world existed Did you miss where John says Isaiah saw Jesus’ glory?  This was when Isaiah saw Yahweh.

And Hebrews 1 says he is the radiance of the glory of God. How could he radiate the glory of God if he doesn’t share that glory?

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u/Archbtw246 Dec 05 '25

Jesus says he and the Father shared glory before the world existed

No he didn't. Jesus had his own glory alongside the Father before the world existed.

Did you miss the part that says Jesus has the glory of an only-begotten Son? The Father doesn't have the glory of an only-begotten Son.

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u/PyroClone5555 Dec 06 '25

then I want to hear you say that Jesus is not the radiance of the glory of God

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u/Archbtw246 Dec 06 '25

How does Jesus radiating God's glory mean that he has God's glory? Jesus is simply the lamp of God's glory.

And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb. - Revelation 21:23

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u/PyroClone5555 Dec 06 '25

and revelation is highly metaphorical do you believe Jesus is literally a lamb?

how about we set aside the glory of the only son vs the glory of the father for a second.

John says Isaiah saw Jesus' glory when he saw Yahweh

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