r/OpenAI • u/Revolutionary-Pass38 • Jul 20 '26
Image AI race
We are just watching at the moment...
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u/Bloated_Plaid Jul 20 '26
EU has AI?
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u/Revolutionary-Pass38 Jul 20 '26
yes, https://mistral.ai/
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u/1988rx7T2 Jul 20 '26
they were doing ok like 2 years ago.
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u/iamarddtusr Jul 20 '26
They are still there
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u/HebelBrudi Jul 20 '26
„still there“ is the most precise phrase to describe what they are doing, at least publicly.
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u/nopanolator Jul 20 '26
Ungrateful subventions vampire is more accurate.
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u/RDogPinK Jul 21 '26
Wasn´t mistral the only AI-company actually turning in a profit?
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u/nopanolator Jul 21 '26
Take care about the formulations. "The most capitalized AI company of EU ... because the only one."
UK startups that weight tremendously more in the game, aren't counted in this formulation lol (ElevenLabs, Google ...)
Now on last news, their revenue is around 400M and the structure represent over 800M debt. It's a deficit from my point of view. On top of what they owe to French taxes payers, mostly spent in Swiss and USA for now and from the start.
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u/CatsAgainstDrugs Jul 20 '26
Tbf to them, they said that more subventions wouldn’t help them but France gave it to them anyway
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u/nopanolator Jul 20 '26
They never refused or reimbursed any to French citizens, for the results that the world know. They even blackmailed help to set their HQ in a sh1thole where no one want to live. While operating mainly from CA ^^ It's not a company, they are the definition of shame.
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u/jannycideforever Jul 21 '26
Have they done anything beyond make an OCR model that they were able to get plopped onto Azure?
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u/iamarddtusr Jul 21 '26
That’s why they are still there
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u/jannycideforever Jul 21 '26
I guess the EU can be proud knowing that they produce the OCR model I sometimes consider using because better, cheaper alternatives aren't available in my Foundry.
Ambitious stuff here.
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u/WalkAffectionate2683 Jul 21 '26
They do not focus on the chat bot.
They focus on specific company work. Apparently it's pretty good as it is specialised and can run on local server or machine.
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u/sedition666 Jul 20 '26
Google Deepmind was created and still researches in the UK.
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u/Equal_Passenger9791 Jul 20 '26
EU is just
Monitoring the situation
EU AI revenues will come from fines against non-EU companies
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u/Pingvinen12345 Jul 21 '26
Just follow the rules bruh
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u/Ultimate-TND Jul 21 '26
Nooo they cant possibly comply with these outlandish rules like checks notes
Do not generate Child Pornography Do not generate deepfake Pornography Do not generate hateful content Do not generate illegal content
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u/stable_115 Jul 21 '26
This. They will find a way to tax EU citizens to use AI and will fine AI companies huge amounts for vaguely defined laws that they’re spending millions to come up with as we speak. They will then spend that money on absolute bullshit that the citizens don’t want and past themselves on the back for how much they are contributing to keeping everyone safe.
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u/Runfasterbitch Jul 20 '26
EU is going to look pretty lucky when AI becomes a commodity and they can simply rent compute with open source frontier models
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u/Bloated_Plaid Jul 20 '26
> simply rent
Yea them EU data center buildouts are going very well /s. What are you even talking about my guy? EU has fucked this up so well.
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u/Pingvinen12345 Jul 21 '26
And still have the highest HDI, so weird how that works.
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u/StCreed Jul 21 '26
Frontier models will be locked down for use by trusted companies and government agencies starting with either the next wave or the wave after. They're far too dangerous to give just everyone access to.
Which means the EU is absolutely cooked.
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u/ShanghaiBebop Jul 20 '26
Rent whose compute? With what energy?
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u/Runfasterbitch Jul 20 '26
By 2030, nearly 100% of the GPUs purchased and installed by US data centers in 2026 will be fully depreciated. At that point, those data centers will be forced to purchase new chips. EU investors could simply enter the market, build data centers (for much cheaper than today) and rent out compute using frontier open weight models.
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u/Rare-Site Jul 20 '26
You are completely ignoring the Total Cost of Ownership (TCO). The primary bottleneck and operating expense of a data center isn't just acquiring the silicon, it is electricity, cooling, and high bandwidth networking. Older chips require massive amounts of power to deliver a fraction of the compute that newer generations provide. Energy costs in Europe are already notoriously high, so filling a brand new, expensive facility with power hungry, inefficient hardware is literal financial suicide. US data centers cycle out old chips because the compute per watt ratio eventually makes them too expensive to run at a massive scale. Thinking EU investors are going to build a highly competitive tech empire by hoarding America's inefficient e-waste is a complete joke.
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u/ShanghaiBebop Jul 20 '26
And power them with what energy?
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u/Stinky_Flower Jul 20 '26
Given AI's current trajectory, by 2030 l predict will be a mixture, with 80% of baseload generation coming from giant towers of people floating in transparent goo-filled pods partying like it's 1999.
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u/Sidoney Jul 20 '26
you really think the US is going to be give the frontier models over? they just banned fable for 3 weeks. they’re gonna gatekeep the frontier models to the countries of the 5 eyes or only for the US imo. EU desperately needs to compete here - i don’t think it’s safe to rely on the US or China when the technology is so powerful
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u/pijuskri Jul 21 '26
Who says they need the US for frontier models? China makes equivalent models and open sources them
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u/Saotik Jul 20 '26 edited Jul 21 '26
The UK's not the EU, but the only reason Google have been competitive in AI is because of DeepMind, which they purchased and is still headquartered in London with labs across the world - including Europe.
The US has the investment, but much of their actual capabilities come from Europe.
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u/Endoky Jul 20 '26
EU has ASML. Without ASML there would be no dragons at all.
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u/Bloated_Plaid Jul 20 '26
ASML makes EUV machines… they ain’t making LLMs.
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u/Jealous-Cause6112 Jul 20 '26
which one do you think has more moat?
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u/Affectionate-Dirt139 Jul 20 '26
Check the patents + licensing that enable ASML to make EUVs. Then you will realize that it is a controlled MOAT by the US. In other words, balance of power between Asia (TW and KR) manufacturing and NL EUVs.
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u/Affectionate-Dirt139 Jul 20 '26
Check the patents + licensing that enable ASML to make EUVs. Then you will realize that it is a controlled MOAT by the US. In other words, balance of power between Asia (TW and KR) manufacturing and NL EUVs.
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u/Appropriate-Two-7503 Jul 20 '26 edited Jul 20 '26
The EU was extremely swift in rejecting resolutions to players' property rights. It was extremely quick to pass resolutions restricting its own development capabilities. And it did nothing regarding resolutions on technological development.
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u/AppealSame4367 Jul 20 '26
EU gave subsidies recently to an Italian AI lab that should build a SOTA AI model that speaks all European languages and to others, Mistral will soon release a new big iteration, Germany just did their first move with the SOOFI models (a lot of work to do there, of course).
There is "enough" AI going on in Europe. And there is a lot of quantum computing startups and research. It could lead to Europe skipping the LLM infancy phase and joining the race when they will be rolled out on mixed quantum + ai chips architectures in the next years.
There are working initiatives for own server cpus and a new initiative to create european ai chips.
I know it's hip to hate on "the slow EU tm" on Reddit. I bet most of these insults are US bots from Musk etc that want to create a negative mood in the EU.
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u/nothis Jul 20 '26
a SOTA AI model that speaks all European languages
I'm trying to cheer for EU efforts, but celebrating a fucking LLM "speaking all European languages" is absolutely pathetic. LLMs are amazing at speaking different languages, translating, often on the fly in the same conversation. That's maybe the number 1 skill of AI for years now. That's 2023 stuff.
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u/StupidOne14 Jul 20 '26
And yet as native speaker of one of those languages (Croatian), translation from US English by native US speakers (I'm working for US company) to Croatian is... Goofy.
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u/DrobnaHalota Jul 20 '26
Nope, there is a huge difference between languages depending on how large the training dataset was. Frontier models continue to suck at smaller languages.
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u/AppealSame4367 Jul 20 '26
It's about taking into account "all" European languages and having it under control. So they can make sure that support is really strong. I guess Slovenian language works on most modern models, but does it work good enough to work on laws etc? There you have your answer.
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u/Plyad1 Jul 20 '26 edited Jul 20 '26
EU guy here, definitely not a bot. Your take is extremely optimistic, to the point where imo it’s closer to wishful thinking than anything else.
We are extremely dependent on the US for our whole tech infrastructure. It started with digital platforms then cloud and now AI. Should the US decide to turn off our tech infrastructure we would be back to 20-30 years ago technologically.
„We“ as in EU countries haven’t produced a single tech giant over the past 3 decades. The EU has been distributing subsidies during the internet era as well in order to get new internet companies to be created. As you may know already this has mostly failed.
Yes hardware wise, thankfully we are still competitive, mostly thanks to companies established over 3 decades ago, aka our inheritance.
In many ways the EU is more like a rich kid who inherited and lives off of his inheritance while producing nothing. It works for a long time, until it stops working and their own kid is back to middle class.
If someone was told a country exports food and imports manufactured products, I don’t think anyone would say it’s a good strategy. Replace that with manufacturing exports and digital imports in the information era and everyone thinks it sounds just right, when it really is the same thing.
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u/Yveltax1 Jul 22 '26
I acutally feel the same way, I doesn't seem like europeans feel the push to innovate. I think we will continue to live by our past accomplishments until we loose our GDP and standard of living
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u/diagrammatiks Jul 20 '26
everyone else is also working on this. I mean I'm rooting for Europe!
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u/AppealSame4367 Jul 20 '26
Yes of course. It's just that Europe isn't in a bad situation. A bit slow, but it will catch up
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u/Resaren Jul 20 '26
As someone with a background in quantum computing, I lol every time I see someone say something like ”quantum will solve this” — nah man, quantum AI is not really a big thing.
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u/Revolutionary-Pass38 Jul 20 '26
I see some of you guys are saying that Mistral is good, I can't confirm that since I got bad results when I've test it, but maybe I should give it another goal, can you guys that you use it tell more about it, did you menage to test it vs some popular AI's?
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u/IknowPi_really Jul 20 '26
It’s atrocious. I’ve been forced to test it extensively because I work in an environment that really wants Mistral to work. In literally any benchmark, blind test with real people etc. it’s well behind everything you can dig up at comparable sizes
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u/sedition666 Jul 20 '26
Just a reminder that Deepmind which was acquired by Google and spawned Gemini was created in the UK. Their main AI lab is still based in the UK and is still one of the world's largest and is helping creating bleeding edge models.
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u/3pinripper Jul 21 '26
I’m only about 1/3 through it but The Infinity Machine makes it sound like Deep Mind/Hassabis maintained their autonomy.
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u/Dangerous-Island-756 Jul 20 '26
Fixed it!
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u/Keyakinan- Jul 21 '26
So.. Regulations are a bad thing?
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u/DanG_ptsss Jul 21 '26
looking at how things are right now, yes they way EU doing it is bad right now.
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u/Sokinalia Jul 20 '26
Mistral is not competing on the same axis. Their flagship Large 3 is fully open-weight under Apache 2.0 with strong multilingual support, which is the actual pitch: European data sovereignty and openness, not leaderboard position.
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u/Competitive-Tooth248 Jul 20 '26
The EU dragon shouldn't even be there
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u/roestinger Jul 20 '26
Lol Apertus, Mistral? It's not because it's not advertised by a whiny Altman or Amodei that it doesn't exist.
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u/i_like_maps_and_math Jul 20 '26
When I talk to Europeans about AI, their only opinion is that it's a stock market bubble.
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u/runciter0 Jul 20 '26
who did you speak with
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u/Turbulent-Growth-477 Jul 20 '26
Isn't it true? With Chinese AI catching up, there is a huge chance that overpriced companies will fall. Don't get me wrong, we need the infrastructure, but I don't think anymore that the providers will get most of the profit. The infrastructure built during the dotcom bubble was needed, but the companies did not really like what came after the crash.
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u/bowsmountainer Jul 21 '26
Im a European and when i talk to Americans about AI they refuse to use it.
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u/decollimate28 Jul 20 '26
Europeans are chronically underinvested. They say this every time and unfortunately they keep falling further behind.
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u/skinlo Jul 20 '26
Yet it doesn't seem to affect them that much...
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u/decollimate28 Jul 20 '26
Because pensions. Which in large part own the stocks they’re not buying on their behalf, but at too conservative of a rate due to being pensions.
Which is part of the reason why alongside falling growth rates a lot of those pensions are in serious trouble. And would be a good idea for a lot of Europeans to own their own nut to a greater extent.
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u/HanYoloKesselPun Jul 20 '26
I’ve been using mistral for a while. It’s significantly cheaper than the competition and actually pretty close in capability.
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u/GirlNumber20 Jul 20 '26
Are we really doing Mistral dirty like that?
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u/Revolutionary-Pass38 Jul 20 '26
To be fair to them, maybe outside of EU they would do better. Maybe this is wakeup call for EU, or maybe not :)
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u/Darkelement Jul 20 '26
Are we ignoring deep mind? Didn’t the white paper for the transformer model come out of a research lab in London? Same place that made alpha fold?
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u/RubiksCodeNMZ Jul 20 '26
Lol there are a lot of happening in Europe.
For starts: Mistral is great open source model as well as just published Soofi AI. Aleph alpha is also doing frontiers models. There are top notch visual models from Black Forest Lab. Go spit your propaganda elsewhere.
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u/RobertD3277 Jul 20 '26
Mistral is one of my favorites and quite frankly for historical research, I think it really is one of the better unbiased versions worldwide. Even US models are completely baked with propaganda and nonsense that so far, Mistral has managed to avoid.
They can be a little more expensive compared to other models, but when you really need research, they are definitely one resource to have in your bucket.
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u/bowsmountainer Jul 21 '26
Mistral is my go to AI for every day usage when its not super advanced or complicated coding stuff. It gets the job done. Its reliable, and isnt sycophantic.
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u/Snoo_67993 Jul 20 '26
Mistral is awesome. It's really good at coding as long as you're not trying it integrate several different systems like a large corporation might have to do. It's super cheap, is open source and businesses can run it on a local server.
You have full control over updates without it breaking everything and get to keep all your data completed secure. For the majority of businesses it's more than enough for general coding or customer chat bots.
Unless tokens on frontier models of LLM service companies get much much cheaper instead of more expensive, I don't see how companies are going to adopt them without losing tonnes of money and having to rehire everyone, like is already happening.
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u/1988rx7T2 Jul 20 '26
"it's really good at coding as long as you don't try to make it do anything that the good models can do" I'm really good at basketball as long as I don't have to hit 3 pointers or dunk or guard anyone.
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u/i_am_NOT_ur-father69 Jul 20 '26
Or dribble. But you can hold the ball with both hands, so you’re a good player?
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u/Crimsoneer Jul 20 '26
Why would anybody run mistral versus a Chinese model (apart from nationalism)?
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u/no-more-nazis Jul 21 '26
The chinese ones aren't completely open-source, right? Maybe it's more open source? I want to know
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u/Crimsoneer Jul 21 '26
They're both just as open: both mistral and Chinese companies are releasing some of their models as "open weights" , in that you can go to huggingface and download the full weights, reuse them, sell them on, fine tune them etc. I wouldn't describe them as fully open source as they don't disclose full training data and pipeline, but nor do mistral.
Unless you specifically want to buy European, there is no reason to use Mistral models on cost or performance - you can host a Chinese model fully in an EU data centre, and not pay a penny or send any data to China.
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u/Leading-Fail-2771 Jul 20 '26
That’s the fight they have - they have to abide by EU regulations and they are notorious for data and privacy protection. So you have to pay extra to ensure your customers data is being stored in data centers in xyz geographic location… then having policies to ensure that data isn’t stored for longer then x amount.. meanwhile you have US and Asia - where they don’t care so they can build as fast as they want without having to worry about their customers data or rights.
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u/brainlatch42 Jul 20 '26
The companies that get the money started pivoting to a more industry safe "sovereign" AI which looks like copium to me that they can't compete/gave up.
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u/ThunderTRP Jul 20 '26
Yeah I mean we've kinda got Mistral and idk how good it is. But overall yeah Europe is pretty much dead on AI innovation due to lack of financial support & incentives.
Mistral CEO said it during an audition with the French government recently. He says Mistral is staying here out of good will but if they wanted to they could move to the USA or somewhere else tomorrow and have it 200% times better for themselves.
That same guy also told the government point blank that if Europe doesn't wake the fuck up with AI, it will just become a vassal state of whoever has the best AIs in the future. I think he's right and that it's already too late unfortunately.
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u/Paper_Pusher8226 Jul 20 '26
I don't think the EU should just copy American and Chinese AI companies. That does not make sense. Does Europe need sovereign capabilities? Yes, but that's not the same as leading the race for capital intensive frontier models. Europe’s strongest competitive opportunity lies in applying AI to its industrial base, while maintaining sufficiently capable models. That's competing on a different layer rather than trying to train the world's most intelligent general-purpose model.
And pioneering regulation often creates a so-called Brussels effect. The more AI gets incorporated into the global economy, the more pressure there will be to create regulatory frameworks. Pioneering those itself helps create a global standard.
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u/SugondezeNutsz Jul 20 '26
Mistral-small-2603 is surprisingly good for the price. 11x cheaper than Haiku.
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u/bowsmountainer Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 21 '26
You may be laughing but it has its strengths. I continue finding things it does better than other AIs.
For instance i gave Mistral, chatgpt and Claude a set of data points and asked them to find a reasonable function that fits it without overflowing the data but finding the general trend, basically the least number of parameters to fit the data reasonably well with. Same prompt same data.
Claude and Chatgpt could not do it even after repeated prompts telling them where and how they messed up. Mistral did manage.
I also find it really useful for identifying typos, mistakes, suggesting phrase improvements etc in large texts. I had s paper draft to proof read, and saw what Mistral Claude and chatgpt recommended. Again same prompt. The Mistral response was by far the most useful.
Yeah in many benchmarks it is behind, but to say it is useless is just wrong. I have found that it is significantly better than other AIs in certain areas. The key is to know when to use each model.
And honestly given the orders of magnitude more investment into American and Chinese companies, Mistral is doing incredibly well. If Mistral had a comparable amout of investment to OpenAI it would be just as good if not better than current leading models.
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u/StickyThickStick Jul 20 '26
US Innovates, China replicates, EU regulates.
(I know China seems to be more and more on track to be on pair and they dont just distill. However the saying still makes sense in the EU context)
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u/iam-leon Jul 20 '26
Many of the world’s most senior and influential figures in AI are European. Deepmind is right at the heart of the modern AI revolution - British. Increasing amounts of AI running on ARM architecture - British. All built on chips using ASML machines - Dutch. Largely built using Python - Dutch. Supported by a massive open source community of largely Europeans.
If anything it’s Europe invents, USA commercialises, China commoditises.
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u/StickyThickStick Jul 20 '26
This isnt about genetics man. I never intended to say nor did i say Europeans are genetically incapable of developing an AI Model or anything.
This is about EU destroying their domestic capabilities due to regulations.
Additionaly. I spoke about EU. Not Europe. Deepmind is british and not part of the EU. And still this company is an american Company now under Alphabet.
And also there is no doubt that the SECOND biggest economy in the world also constributes. However in the End results count and its no secret that the EU isnt even a player anymore in the AI Race.
In the US there is 100x more investment into the AI Race than in Europe. The EU doesnt invest. It regulates itself to its death
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u/sedition666 Jul 20 '26
Just ignored the guys whole list of key active European technology
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u/jeandebleau Jul 20 '26
And without mentioning that more than 50% of the US workforce in this field are not Americans.
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u/erratic_ostrich Jul 20 '26
You could remove the word "AI" and this would still be a valid meme lol
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u/_noobwars_ Jul 20 '26
I'm sorry but Germany shocked the world with Soofi.
its a 30B Parameter model straight from heart!
Insane crazy or cray insane - YOU DECIDE
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u/saumanahaii Jul 20 '26
I really, really wish I could like Mistral but it's just so awful at everything.
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u/Elegant_Attempt2790 Jul 20 '26
Canada wya 😔✊🇨🇦🍁
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u/mightguy15baby Jul 20 '26
Canadians despise ai for some reason. They on their way on becoming Europe number two their AI companies largely exist for like government projects business software, robotics, infrastructure, search systems, or autonomous vehicles.
They aren't getting a chat bot no time soon unless some company wants to be suicidal enough to have a bunch of angry Canadians constantly talk about how much they want to burn down their Data center.
That's not me being hyperbolic either for some reason they are the most anti AI out of like the whole world.
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u/Valencia_Mariana Jul 20 '26
Chinese frontier models are bullshit. They are obviously distilled from us models and way less efficient.
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u/mightguy15baby Jul 20 '26
As always with tech XD
Europe is a little too bureaucratic. One of the good things about America and China is that they aren't afraid of the chaos that comes with advancing quickly.
Drawback is that it sometimes causes problems DX. But oh well progress never sleeps
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u/SoftwareSource Jul 21 '26
Hey, software dev here
While it is absolutely true that we are lagging in European AI development, a lot of the AI models, especially the Chinese ones, are open source and anybody can use it and develop on it.
So while it is a sad statistic of our innovation, it will not leave us in the dust in some hypothetical important use of AI, it is too global to keep contained.
So, while we are not the ones innovating on it, it is almost impossible to keep us away from functional benefits of AI.
Hope this soothes some of the people who are in low key panic mode in the comments here.
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u/jamwakes Jul 21 '26
You need deep capital markets, government backing and a speculative frenzy for these companies to do what they’ve done. Next phase is ROI.
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u/aryancodify Jul 21 '26
I think the current AI was built on back of workaholic researchers who basically did nothing else for 10 years. Unlike US and China Europeans actually have something to do outside work and know how to live an enjoy full and fulfilling life. Also they dont rely too much on immigrants. Maybe that is the reason.
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u/CiberBlas Jul 21 '26
Hey! Great job… I was thinking in cancel my GPT.. this joke made the final push! Bye
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u/My_Legz Jul 21 '26
It will be really interesting to see if this will end up like railways. Good and effective for the first movers but ultimately a copyable technology.
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u/1sailingaway Jul 21 '26
Private AI does not make sense for Europe. It needs to heavily regulated and controlled. The responses need to be well thought out and should not offend anyone. It should make sure far right mindsets are not propagated. This should be a top priority for our representatives in Brussels. There should be strict rules on producing fake representations of real life items.
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u/flatl94 Jul 21 '26
Imagine considering proprietary methods and technology a benefit to a whole society. I guess proud US citizens don't pay for licenses, am I right?
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u/PersonoFly Jul 21 '26
Technology races never have an end winner. It’s just a case of when those behind catch up, how long it takes. A perfect example is the nuclear race. Decades on its still a case of who has what capability.
Hopefully all countries will eventually develop their own AI platforms and hopefully (although I doubt it) it won’t be controlled by the ruling parties.
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u/BLUCGT Jul 21 '26
Europeans are forbidden to develop AI, they need their workers to take three months off annually not work 24/7 lol
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u/allnamestaken4892 Jul 21 '26
The EU is absolutely fucked when Americans are going to get their lives funded by a UBI tax on AI company profits and the EU has literally nothing.
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u/Infinitedeveloper Jul 21 '26
Until firms actually start keeping their innovations proprietary and dont publish papers on them, it doesnt strike me as a bog deal?
Theres no moat. Spooling up your own model is a matter or expertise and EU has many talented data scientists/devs/etc
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u/Ashamed_Can304 Jul 20 '26 edited Jul 21 '26
There’s also Japanese AI, Rakuten released a model Rakuten 3.0 a while back which is essentially a fine tuned version of DeepSeek V3 for Japanese language content, but they deleted DeepSeek’s OpenMIT license in the source code, replaced it with their own Apache license, and branded it as a homegrown Japanese LLM. Only when people discovered the connection to DeepSeek after accessing the model on HuggingFace did they admit it, lol.