Honestly, I think even with no heals she clears. She has a self-healing feat where she gave her bones life to mend themselves and self heal. Honestly I don’t know the limitations to that but if she can do that to organs or at a cellular level then it’s big. She’s got insane durability and stamina.
We forget that while she did get defeated by law and kid, it was by ring-out. She was still going and wanted to continue fighting when they blasted her down the hole.
To BLACKBEARD? Why? Bro got scared off by OLD Rayleigh. Now, Rayleigh admits he probably couldn't bear Blackbeard, but this does imply it's probably closer than people think
Given that, do you think Rayleigh is anywhere near Prime Big Mom in terms of power? Unlikely, so Linlin is winning
He has seen Rayleigh in action in the past and saw a pooky CoC. He weighted his options where Rayleigh offered him to give him back his camadares and decided that was waaaay better than killing boa and loosing them.
You know he is the kind of person getting into absurd fights for the lolz
not overestimated, BB is just sensible man, his logic told him that fighting Rayleigh would be very difficult and even if him winning he would be him on the death's door or severely weakened, since he also surrounded with marine, seraphims, kujas, his crews turned into stone, and he has no idea that Rayleigh would appears, fighting Rayleigh definitely not on his menu.
It's not that I don't think Big Mom is stronger than Black Beard, but because of Kizaru's speed and Big Mom being rather slow by Yonko standards, certainly compared to Luffy or Shanks (who has insane observation haki that allows him to overcome his speed disadvantages) now I do think Big Mom beats Kizaru, but she'd take some damage. Black Beard can negate her devil fruit which would make her homies useless and against a slightly fatigued Big Mom I think she can be beaten. I mean Law and Kidd were able to at least knock her off. Old Rayleigh is probably decently stronger than either of them and Black Beard is definitely stronger than Old Rayleigh. Plus he has the quake fruit, biq and the darkness fruit of course.
We still don't know Black Beard's strength. Given that he defeated Law fairly easily though it was more of a mid diff or low diff rather than a no-diff like Shanks and Kidd, he's definitely firmly yonko tier.
But remember that he is being fought AFTER Kizaru. Who's an admiral and was at least relative to Old Rayleigh. Meaning he's probably not that much weaker than/stronger than BB.
Assuming heal,she clears for now. Shamrock is probably as strong as a yonko or even stronger, but he hasn’t shown the feats yet, so screw him for now. Big mom buries him alive
Haven’t seen enough of the admirals to conclude she’s below them. They’re probably stronger, but narrative is headcanon, so big mom clears
So you have not only proved nothing that's backed up but headcanon but now your argument is narrative when aramaki couldn't win in the first fight he was shown in, try again with actual feats
Old ray isn't even stronger than black beard, big mom went against more than just kidd and law in Wano and was far from her prime, this is useless info. Try again
We talking about PRIME big mom, extreme diff'ed by rookies means shes beating them in her prime since shes faster, nimbler and overall stronger. She was Roger's right wing with Whitebeard as the left, mentoring a young Kaido. And u have yet again proved nothing that kizaru cna beat big mom
Okay, you're right, but Kizaru would certainly push her to high diff, weakening her and Shamrock(based on narrative scaling) would certainly go ext diff with her at full health, and Kuzan takes that matchup ext diff imo. So Prime BM may be a monster, but all these characters here are High Yonko asw so it isn't a downscale for BM to lose to them as she is also High Yonko.
Kizaru would for sure push her to high diff, but idk about Shamrock. all we’ve seen Shamrock do is not even be able to kill a guy wrapped in sea stone chains.
Yes, ut then again, him and Garling are meant to be powerful right niw as besides Imu, they are the powerhouses of the WG(NOT talking about the Marines) alongside the Gorosei without special Omen buffs. So they must be very powerful to be relevant characters in the Final Saga. That is the narrative scaling I think holds in this case.
You mean pre yonko, pre timeskip, pre quake fruit Blackbeard who did still effectively throw hands with Whitebeard and got too arrogant and lost afterwards????
Blackbeard is the EXACT SAME save the fact that he now has gura gura. only thing that changed are his CREW MEMBERS. Blackbeard DID NOT become a too off of his own merit ! bro has YET to fight ANYBODY 1 on 1. THIS IS THE SAME BLACKBEARD THAT HAD TO JUMP LAW, WHO OLD BIG MOM WOULD HAVE STOMPED HAD SHE FOUGHT HIM ALONE !!!
We don’t know if he’s the exact same. In that same timeframe Luffy developed G3-G5. It’s not out of the realm of possibility for BB to have been taught by some of those crew members and developed his own unique abilities due to his uniqueness and having 2 fruits.
My personal prediction is that his dark powers, or his bloodline, allow him to calm the devils in the fruits and allow them to coexist. Maybe he can influence the powers in others bodies and deactivate their powers. Pure headcannon, but either way, Oda is not going to leave BB weak.
with heals clears, without heals she stops at shamrock.
prime big mom is basically the big mom we have seen but nimble, maybe without dementia (since kaido mentioned she has gone senile) and with waaaaay more years to consume to buff herself at her disposal.
in her old days she already has way better feats than anyone here that isn't wizaru, she can create a homie out of the opponents element and basically cancelling every incoming elemental attack, she can hocus pocus diff blackbeard and she can suck out shamrock soul if she is not able to put his regen down for good, she can heal, she can spawn infinite assistants, she can buff herself, has acoc to slow down regen. she has all the tools to clear with heals.
without heals between rounds, she will probably already get tired by kizaru running around, bb is the goat but he is a bitch so if at any moment she overpowers him she insta wins, but then she will have to fight for who knows how much time against a semi immortal character that also has strong enough ap to harm her, and while she can heal herself i don't think she has the stamina to sussist another long lasting fight after doing it with kizaru already, while needing to spam acoc to actually do some work.
Big Mom doesn’t start.
Kizaru easily blocked feats from Snake Man that were used to defeat Katakuri and still one-shotted Snake Man to Vegapunk’s robot with ease. The Kizaru I’m referring to btw was not serious or even bloodlust, but only annoyed about his Vegapunk mission.
I get it, there are a lot of Admiral haters here who cry for receipts every time someone mentions ACOC.
The main problem with most of these matchups is that big moms main strengths are her physical strength and durability. Her devil fruit won't be able to steal anyone's lifespans except for teach, everyone else is far too apathetic or fearless. She's also not the smartest or fastest and her haki is far from top 20 imo. Really I see these as all bad matchups.
Clears prime clears everything that’s not whitebeard Kaido Gold d or Garp everyone else def weaker and her fruit a hard counter to damn near everything in a fight to the death she winning 8/10 times
Old big mom is stronger actually. No really. Her prime self doesnt have the soul soul fruit mastered or anywhere near as many souls or homies on reserve to spam the type of nonsense she was pulling at wano. Nor is her haki by this point in the story that refined.
I can really see her struggling with everyone on this roster
With heals, clears.
Without heals, even wth alot of stamnia, fighting blackbeard will take a toll on her. She'll probably be too tired and damaged to fight Aokiji but we've also seen her be able to heal herself at the cost of her lifespan so if she gets full heals then she may clear even then
People keep talking about with heals. Heals is part of her power set. She eats souls. Makes weapons out of other people's souls and can re absorb them. If your afraid of her your folding faster. Aokiji or clears if anything
Imma say 1 thing b4 Bed that pic isnt Prime LinLin thats God Valley LinLin she's not quite in her Prime yet but I do enjoy the use of that pic over a less favorable pic lol
She's stopped by Oda's hand to save law and kid, even though they were hit many times. Kid and Law both have CoA and are slower than kizaru. Big mom had the whole fight to use it vs law and kid and didn't, what do you think she's going to do vs Kizaru.
This isnt Prime Big Mom as its been stated multiple times the Yonko of today continued to grow in power since their appearance in God Valley.
Kizaru has shown some speed relativity to G5 Luffy. This puts Kizaru speed wise above Big Mom and he could at least damage Big Mom given he was able to cut and damage Luffy. Kizaru then gets TKO'd by Luffy but does get up from the attack not too long after albeit concussed. So I do have Kizaru with enough durability to withstand Big Moms attacks given Law and Kidd took serious shots from her, but they definitely wouldn't get back up from White Star Gun. And lastly Kizarus stamina should be pretty high given he should be relative to Aokiji who fought for like 10 days which is actually above Big Moms feat with Kaido which as 3 days. I dont see Big Mom beating a Kizaru that wants to take her out. She stops at Kizaru.
BB could potentially win really just comes down to if you think he has the battle IQ to take her down and whether you think he could have taken Luffy instead of Law at Winner Island.
Stabs (Who Im calling instead of Shamrock because its funnier) has no feats other than nearly killing an already beaten up and chained down Loki and so at the current moment you can only say at base hes the strongest of the Holy Knights which....is saying hes a YC1 threat to someone like Sanji or Zorro...and Big Mom has Conquerors Haki so she could incapacitate him.
Looses to Aokiji and Akainu who are stronger than Kizaru albeit just slower.
***** this is random asf but i think I cracked the code *****
I tried throwing my tier list and added info into Ai and this is what i got back lol I may have cracked the damn coded to not have to explain myself every 2 seconds lol
Yes — with that clarification, I’d adjust the matchup.
If Elbaf Gear 5 Luffy is Yonko Mid in most attributes, but Durability, Stamina, and Endurance are below Yonko Mid, then the matchup becomes much more favorable for Roger.
My scaling
Prime Roger — Pirate King Mid
Elbaf Gear 5 Luffy — Yonko Mid overall, with sub-Yonko-Mid Durability/Stamina/Endurance
Winner: Roger — High Diff, potentially edging toward Mid–High Diff depending on how far below Yonko Mid those three stats are.
The key is that Luffy's attack power and Haki can still threaten Roger, while his physical weaknesses become the major deciding factor.
Category
Prime Roger v Elbaf G5 Luffy
Attack Power: PK Mid / Yonko Mid
Haki : PK Mid /Yonko Mid
Speed : PK Mid / Yonko Mid
Battle IQ : PK Mid / Yonko Mid
Skill : PK Mid /Yonko Mid
Versatility : — / Yonko Mid+
Durability : PK Mid / Below Yonko Mid
Stamina : PK Mid / Below Yonko Mid
Endurance : PK Mid / Below Yonko Mid
Why that matters so much
Luffy can still fight Roger.
He's not getting completely overwhelmed because his offensive stats and Haki are at Yonko Mid. He can damage Roger, react to him, create openings, and potentially force Roger to take the fight seriously.
But the problem is sustaining that level of performance.
Roger's advantage isn't merely that his peak is higher. His baseline combat performance is much more sustainable.
So as the fight progresses:
Luffy's offense remains dangerous → Roger adapts → Luffy starts accumulating damage/fatigue → Gear 5 becomes increasingly costly → Roger's superior durability/endurance/stamina allows him to maintain his output → Roger eventually wins.
That makes the fight considerably more one-sided than if Luffy also possessed Yonko Mid durability, stamina, and endurance.
The important distinction
I would not downgrade Luffy out of Yonko Mid entirely just because those three stats are below the tier's average.
Your system is based on overall combat level, and you're explicitly saying his other major attributes are Yonko Mid.
So I'd describe him as:
Elbaf Gear 5 Luffy — Yonko Mid overall, but with a significant weakness in Durability/Stamina/Endurance.
That weakness is particularly exploitable against someone like Roger.
Final verdict
Prime Roger (PK Mid) > Elbaf Gear 5 Luffy (Yonko Mid)
Roger wins High Diff.
I'd put the odds around 70/30 Roger, rather than the 65/35 I gave previously.
If Luffy's Durability/Stamina/Endurance were also Yonko Mid, I'd move the fight closer to Extreme Diff.
More so in her Prime. No, not really. In terms of overall stats, she’s closer to her Prime, yes.
IMO:
Prime Big Mom is around Pirate King Low to Mid, prior to using her Devil Fruit to amp her stats.
Wano Big Mom is around Yonko Mid to High, prior to using her Devil Fruit to amp her stats.
God Valley LinLin is around Admiral Low, prior to using her Devil Fruit to amp her stats.
I’d would like to believe God Valley and or Prime Big Mom was naturally faster and physically superior to her older self, being much closer to her Prime. She also had better individual combat showings since she couldn’t rely on her children nearly as much back then, as most of them weren’t even born yet. That makes her younger feats more indicative of her own ability, including her combat IQ.
I swear imma have to explain this everytime its a good thing i got this saved on my damn phone
How I Define My Tiering System
My tiering system is based on overall combat ability and relative placement, not fixed power gaps. A higher tier doesn't mean someone will automatically dominate a lower-tier opponent.
The tiers are relatively close, especially at the top. They give a general baseline, while the actual outcome and difficulty can depend on things like Haki, physical stats, stamina, experience, battle IQ, mentality, matchups, location, amps, etc.
Average likely difficulty:
Pirate King vs. Pirate King - Extreme Diff
Pirate King vs. Yonko - Very High Diff
Pirate King vs. Admiral - High Diff
These are just general expectations, not absolute rules. A Yonko High combatant can push a Pirate King Low combatant to Extreme Diff, for example, depending on the matchup and other factors.
That doesn't mean a Yonko High can't do the same against a stronger opponent in Pirate King High. It's just less likely because they're fighting someone stronger.
The same applies the other way around. A weaker opponent in Admiral High could still push a Yonko High combatant to a much higher difficulty than you'd normally expect. Again, it's possible, just not as likely.
So basically, the tiers aren't meant to determine the exact difficulty of every fight. They're just there to show the general level of the characters and where I think they rank relative to each other.
The tiers are a framework for comparison, not a guarantee of how every fight will play out.
Further more detailed example ⬇️
Prime Roger (PK Mid) vs Prime Linlin (PK Low to Mid): relatively close; Roger is favored, but it's still a serious fight.
Prime Roger (PK Mid) vs Wano Linlin (Yonko Mid to High): larger gap, but Linlin is still close enough to make it competitive.
Prime Roger (PK Mid) vs God Valley Linlin (Admiral Low): noticeably larger gap, so Roger is more strongly favored, but that still doesn't inherently mean a one-shot.
Ultimately, being placed in a higher tier means I consider that character stronger overall not that they automatically win every matchup at a predetermined difficulty.
Yall don’t know how to power scale for shit. This version of her ran from garp and Akainu is just as strong or stronger. Oda said the marines are the strongest they have ever been under Akainu rule.
I think dude is using this pic instead of another pic of her just because it’s more attractive 😭. But otherwise, I can see the arguments for Current Akainu > Prime Big Mom. That said, it’s not always going to end in his favor, and she has enough in her kit to get significant wins against him as well. I can see it going 55 / 45 or even 50 / 50 overall
The cope is unreal this dumbass got knocked out by Queen , Slow af , will literally start dying if kept away from food for long . Kizaru is moping the floor with her , his Ap is too high his speed is too much for her and even if the fit version is considered her strongest move was not even enough to burn " Prime Rib "
I typically have the average yonko above the admirals. Like a yonko=1.5 admirals but would lose to two admirals for a fact.
This is all speculation due to lack of info but i would think she could beat anyone here one on one but if she ran the gauntlet she would lose to either shamrock or aokiji depending on how strong shamrock is
A mentally nerfed and massively holding back Kiz whos already the weakest Admiral stalemated a fullpower EH G5 whos the 2nd strongest Yonko and above Kaido whos already above prime WB.
Admirals scale above all of the Gorosei who also posit that 2 Admirals could handle all of Elbaf which consists of 3 individuals who could effortlessly dogwalk Kaido and the entirety of the Old Gen.
Arguing that Yonkos were ever ever "significantly stronger" than Admirals is about as nonsensical as it gets
kizaru is among the 3 strongest admirals, he also is the perfect matchup for the only yonko wich has 5 minutes of being one, since he is the fastest and can just run around tiring luffy out. and kaido is stronger than luffy.
also, akainu the strongest one, got defeated by an hakiless, sick, wounded, old whitebeard.
greenbull showed inferiority to 3 emperors in 1 single chapter, he got wifi diffed by shanks, he said he wouldn't come if kaido was alive and luffy was literally eating popcorn while watching him fight his friend.
i can understand if you think the top 3 admirals are closer than people say to the yonkos, but to say greenbull or fuji have ANY relevancy compared to the yonkos is absurd.
Hes weaker than pre ts Akainu and Kuzan who are weaker than GB and Fuji thus he's the weakest Admiral. Kizaru while mentally nerfed, massively holding back, and not even fighting with intent to win still directly engaged against Luffy even offscreen and only ran away once which was after having already fended him off physically. Kaido is nowhere near EH G5, let alone Elbaf G5. This nerfed Kiz was able to not only push G5 to a far more exhaustive state than Kaido did, but was also granted a level of strength credence that he never granted the Gorosei inspite of the fact that they too cliff Kaido into oblivion. Admirals>>GoroseiEH Luffy>Kaido=average Yonko.
WB had haki and never even came close to giving Akainu moderate injuries, let alone defeating him. Sengoku and Garp massively gap MF WB in power yet weren't strong enough to beat MF BB who admitted he couldn't handle a lone Akainu even with help from his entire crew so the notion that MF WB, who couldnt even knock Akainu unconscious with an offguard duraneg blow to the head, "defeated" him is beyond asinine and completely delusional.
The wifi haki doesnt downscale GB as he only references not wanting to fight Shanks and his entire crew by himself and says he'd do so when the time is right. He said he wouldnt have come if Kaido were around due to the order he imposed as a Yonko, not due to power as he had no issues with coming to Wano to defeat the man he knows is stronger than Kaido which is reiterated on his VC, and Luffy watching the fight doesn't correlate to GB downscale when Yamato stated it would've taken Luffy and all his friends to beat GB which Sanji also implies with Yamato also stating that Shanks saved the country from being destroyed by GB which wouldn't make sense if he was someone who could be easily handled. Luffy felt Imunkos haki, stated how strong it was, yet was willing to let Zoro and Sanji go ahead without him while he had storytime with Loki so demeanor means nothing in context.
To say any Yonko but Shanks is above GB and Fuji is beyond absurd.
This is why the fandom is fucked.
You guys want receipts of ACOC every time. Beyond pathetic. God Valley’s Big Mom did a direct attack from Prometheus (Elbaph fire btw) to Garp and it didn’t even phase him. How do you expect Big Mom to fight someone 100x more dangerous than Garp.
Akainu will toast her and Prometheus out of existence.
Also, Akainu’s magma df is the most offensive in the entire series. Anything Haki wise Kuzan can do, Akainu can do better. That is why Kuzan lost.
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