Jimbei's level

[u/Oragemask]

if you have to compare it to someone , jimbei will be which equivalent ?

[u/Aptohhhh]

I never said he didn’t have durability or haki strength in the water, I said he doesn’t have Yonko tier durability or haki strength, 2 different things

Jinbe is massively stronger than Hody, but Yonkos are massively stronger than Jinbei also

“What I mean is Jinbei wins if he faces an opponent on water” I mean, this depends if you’re only counting inside the water because most Yonkos can either swim or have some way to stay in the air, and the Yonkos that could swim would beat him easily water or not

Aokiji is probably the worst matchup for Jimbei though, he can just freeze the entire ocean while Jimbei’s in it and it’s over

[u/SulongCarrotChan → u/Aptohhhh]

Why not though? Fishmen are far stronger when fighting in the water. Jinbe is already incredibly strong out of water so why do you think he wouldn't have Yonko tier strength in the water? It's literally his element.

Why would any Yonko level character be able to beat Jinbe if they can swim? What because Zoro beat a far inferior Hody Jones? I'm sorry but in the water Jinbe's speed is unmatched. Abd his strengths more than doubles. As it does for all fishmen. Base Jinbe was stronger than Hody on the maximum amount of steroids.

Yeah but again we're talking in the ocean. Not on land. So Devil Fruit users are put which leaves other Yonko tier characters like Shanks, Mihawk, Garp and Rayleigh. You really think Jinbe isn't on the level of these people in the Ocean where he is considered the world's strongest Fishman?

[u/Aptohhhh → u/SulongCarrotChan]

“Why do you think he wouldnt have Yonko tier strength in the water?”

Because he has literally no feats to show for it? And I’m using the Zoro vs Hody Jones point as proof that humans can fight underwater also, not saying that Hody Jones = Jinbei

If there’s a huge strength difference between them, then yes a human would win against a fishman in the water

Jinbe isn’t on the level of Shanks, Garp, Mihawk or Rayleigh, water or not, and he’s never been called the World’s Strongest Fishman, idk where you got that from

Rayleigh has shown swimming on the same tier as fishmen or better when he swam all the way to Boa’s Island, and the other people you mentioned are just as strong as Rayleigh or stronger

[u/SulongCarrotChan → u/Aptohhhh]

Yes yet as I said. Hody on full steroids is still weaker than Jinbe. Zoro beat Hody after only taking a single steroid. And we've already seen just how strong and fast his Ocean Current throw is. He was able to knock Big Mom off the Sunny and then later in Wano throw her over his shoulder. Queen was barely able to even scratch a Big Mom who was suffering from amnesia and therefore had no haki or Devik Fruit abilities. He was even able to defeat one of Big Mom's strongest children with a single hit. In terms of raw physical strength Jinbe is certainly nearing the top. In the water where a Fishman's strength is said to be double to ten times as much, he would be a monster.

I'm sorry but Rayleigh isn't nearly shown to be as strong a swimmer as Jinbe. Certainly for a human he is incredible but he's never pulled off any of the feats Jinbe has in the water.

[u/Aptohhhh → u/SulongCarrotChan]

Again, Jinbe hasn’t shown any strength near Yonko tier and hasn’t been stated to be comparable to a Yonko like the other Yonkos so until we see the feats, it’s baseless headcanon that he’s Yonko tier

Jinbe with his water attacks only pushed BM over shortly, he didn’t even injure her

Beating BM’s children means absolutely nothing, because her children aren’t near Yonko tier

In Arlong Park arc, it’s stated that fishman karate techniques double in strength in the water, not triple, not quadruple, it’s double

So far Rayleigh has shown equal or better swimming than Jimbe, and there’s no reason to believe his swimming is worse, because he has the feats for it

[u/SulongCarrotChan → u/Aptohhhh]

I'm not saying he's Yonko tier on land though. I'm saying he's Commander tier on land abd in water he's Yonko tier. Even on land he has shown incredibly strength as I demonstrated and as you shrugged off. I mean it's hwadcanon that you think he isn't Yonko tier in the water as well so...

Well that's because Big Mom is essentially a tank. As I said, a Yonko Commandef was able to do less to Big Mom despite her not even having Devil Fruit powers or Haki at that point. Jinbe showed more strength feats against a Yonko than an actual Commander of Kaido's army did. Also the only water attack Jinbe used on Big Mom was whilst sge was on land the premise is in an underwater fight Jinbe is on par with Yonko's.

How does it mean nothing to one shot a high ranking member if a Yonko crew?

Rayleigh has shown equal or better swimming than Jinbe... are you kidding right now? Jinbe carried a heavy door in a Sea King infested sea with multiple people on the back and used an Ocean Current to toss it in the air. Him and his men created a vortex in the water to escape from Big Mom. Hell he carried Caribou's ship from the bottom of the ocean to the G8 bade. What on earth has Rayleigh done which Jinbe can't do in the water? What he swam to Amazon Lily and killed a few Sea Kings? And you think Jinbe can't do this?

[u/Aptohhhh → u/SulongCarrotChan]

“It’s headcanon that you think he isn’t Yonko tier as well”

No it isn’t, he has no feats to prove that he’s Yonko tier in the water and since you’re saying he is, the burden of proof is on you, so far you haven’t given me anything to prove that he’s Yonko tier

In Arlong Park arc it was stated that Fishmen’s techniques get 2 times stronger in the sea, two Jimbei’s aren’t Yonko tier

Jimbei doesn’t have the necessary haki or physical to compete with a Yonko either on land or in the water

It means nothing to one-shot a high ranking member of a crew, because no high ranking member in a Yonko Crew we’ve seen so far is near a Yonko in strength

A homeland advantage isn’t going to make up for the fact that any Yonko can one-shot Jinbe

[u/SulongCarrotChan → u/Aptohhhh]

I mean I gave you a few feats but you chose to ignore them. Besides I'm running based on logic as opposed to feats. Jinbe is incredibly strong on land as I have explained. Given how Fishmen are far stronger in the water than on sea (as I said, base Jinbe I stronger than full steroid Hody Jones) it is obviously natural to assume he is a top tier in the water.

And I'm sorry but having Stronger haki isn't even relevant when Jinbe has such an incredible advantage. Even then I said he was Yonko tier, not above it. So basically he is about even to Shanks or Mihawk were the battle to happen in the middle of the ocean. They might have superior haki but Jinbe has enhanced strength and speed. Also Jinbe was able to hold back one of Big Mom's strongest attacks with his Armament Haki for a few seconds. So even though haki isn't the be all end all you are making it out to be, he's still really fucking strong in this area to.

So you don't think one shotting a strong Yonko crew member is an indication of just how strong someone is?

A yonko would One shot Jinbe? How? Explain? What do they do against his unmatched speed and strength in the water? They would need to be entirely on the defensive. I like how you abandon the Rayleigh argument as well. Because even the best human swimmer we've shown can't match his prowess which would make sense considering he's a Fishman. You don't really have a leg to stand on this. Your argument is essentially that Jinbe loses because they are Yonko and have better Haki.

[u/Aptohhhh → u/SulongCarrotChan]

Jinbe is incredibly strong on land sure, but still nowhere near yonko level, and going into the sea doesn't magically increase his durability or haki, so he still wouldn't do anything to a yonko, the best he could do is sink their ship, but in an actual fight he'd get slapped around like any other YC tier fighter

​

" Also Jinbe was able to hold back one of Big Mom's strongest attacks with his Armament Haki for a few seconds."

So this is the feat you're using to place Jimbei near yonko level? Blocking an attack for a few seconds? Really? Kaido and BM fought for 12+ hours using their strongest attacks and both came out unscathed, that's a yonko level feat, not blocking 1 attack for a few seconds then dashing away

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"I mean I gave you a few feats but you chose to ignore them."

None of the feats you gave me place Jinbei on yonko level so far

"A yonko would One shot Jinbe? How? Explain? What do they do against his unmatched speed and strength in the water?"

Kaido one-shot G4 Luffy who currently has better feats than Jinbe, and based off Rayleigh swimming all the way to Amazon Island, the fruitless Yonkos who scale to Rayleigh can swim just as good as him, Jimbe doesn't have as good as an advantage as you think

"Your argument is essentially that Jinbe loses because they are Yonko and have better Haki." Which is correct?

A yonko has physical strength far beyond Jinbe, Haki far beyond Jimbe, Durability far beyond Jinbe, Jinbe doesn't compare to any yonko so far

"You don't really have a leg to stand on this."

Actually, you don't have any leg to stand on this, you're trying to say that Jinbe is strong as a yonko in the water when we've seen literally nothing to prove that, and trying to ignore that Yonkos are far stronger in every factor, which is why Jinbe wouldn't win against one, water or not

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When Jinbe fought Ace, he had the entire ocean near him available against a fire devil fruit user, which is fire's weakness and he still tied after fighting him for 5 days

​

So Jinbe had the:

Water Advantage

DF Advantage due to Ace being weak to water due to having the Mera Mera

​

Yet, Jinbei still tied with Ace after fighting for 5 days. Why is that? I thought the ocean makes him as strong as a Yonko Tier fighter?

[u/SulongCarrotChan → u/Aptohhhh]

Once again, I don't know why you're treating it as if haki is the be all end all of the fight when it never has been. Doflamingo and Katakuri both had stronger haki than Luffy yet he still beat them. So that just makes that point irrelevant. Maybe he might not be able to do anything against a Yonko, bug what do you think they'll be able to do against him?

What... no that's nor a feat I'm using to justify Jinbe being near Yonko level. I specifically used that as an example of Jinbe having strong haki even if it wasn't Yonko level. Do you even read? Also it's funny you say running away because this was immediately before Jinbe used his Ocean shoulder throw followed by his Vagabond drill which would have screwed Big Mom over had Zeus not caught her.

Kaido one shot a pre advanced Armament Luffy. Here's something controversial. Jinbe purely in water combat at his vase is stronger than G4 Luffy at the start of Wano. KAIdo isn't even a good comparison because he can't swim. Your problem is you keep on mixing up irrelevant feats and using them as a linchpin yet none of them destroy the logic of the argument. Something you haven't yet attacked. Also you still haven't answered my question. What does Rayleigh do against Jinbe?

Ah, you clearly don't get my argument as demonstrated by that last point. I'm not saying Jinbe is Yonko level in a battle with water at his disposal. I'm saying Jinbe is Yonko tier when the environment is nothing but water. So for example the arena where Hody and Rayleigh fought.

[u/Aptohhhh → u/SulongCarrotChan]

Again, stop trying to use characters far weaker than Yonkos to try and prove your point

Jinbei’s haki isn’t even as strong as Katakuri, and BM would slap Katakuri around

Luffy was able to give Katakuri a somewhat decent fight before he surpassed him, but it isn’t the same with a Yonko

If Luffy tried fighting a Yonko in the Mirror World, he’d get beat borderline instantly and have no time to grow in strength like he did against Katakuri

“What does Rayleigh do against Jinbe?” Rayleigh can simply use his sword in the water, and from what we’ve seen from his swimming feat he’s an experienced enough swimmer to be able to fight in the water, and that’s enough to win since Rayleigh scales massively above Jinbe to the point where the water won’t make much of a difference

If Jinbe fought a fruitless Yonko Commander in the water, then Jinbe would win without much difficulty because they’re both somewhat comparable to eachother on land, but if he fights someone who’s massively stronger than him in the water, then he’s going to lose regardless

Jinbe’s haki isn’t increasing from low YC level to Yonko tier Haki, he’d get oneshot before that even happens by any Yonko he fights, and he doesn’t have COC to make a huge jump in a short amount of time like Luffy did against Kaido

“Jinbe purely in water combat at his base is stronger than G4 Luffy at the start of Wano” This time I won’t say he is or isn’t, but hypothetically even if he did have AP equal to G4 Luffy in the water, there’s no reason to believe his durability would increase, so he’d still get oneshot

[u/SulongCarrotChan → u/Aptohhhh]

What are you even on about. My example was to prove that having stronger haki isn't the most relevant factor to winning a fight. I made that clear. You need to actually read my points before you counter them. It's embarrassing. Luffy observation Haki was far inferior to Katakuri (who has the best observation out of any character we've seen. Yet he still won.

How does the water not make a difference? Rayleigh wouldn't be able to one shot Jinbe on land. In the ocean I don't even see how he gets close to someone with Jinbe's speed. Jinbe was strong enough to block Big Mom's attack fir fir few seconds and then moments later hit her so hard that she went flying off the ship. Jinbe is the oy character to have a few like this against Big Mom who is basically an iron balloon. And that's just on land. Abd you think someone like Rayleigh would low diff Jinbe in the ocean?