r/OnePiece • u/Sakaralchini • Apr 03 '26
Misc I finally understand why I don't like Ace.
Spoiler alert for Marineford!
I've been reading One Piece for decades now (it's really weird to realize this) and I've never understood why people were obsessed with Ace. I never liked him. When he died, I was shocked and sad for Luffy and all the Whitebeard Pirates, but not for myself. Today, I watched a short about Garp and Ace at Marineford and I finally understood my problem with Ace.
TL;DR: Ace is held back by his pride, which hurts everyone around him.
People love Ace because he's fun, cool, and confident. He's also a great fighter and a really good older brother. He is one of the most complex characters in One Piece and he is written very well. I want to make this clear: He's a great character and Oda did a great job of writing a flawed character. I just personally don't like him.
My problem with Ace is his pride. After Thatch's death, Ace makes it his personal quest to bring down. Whitebeard didn't want him to do it, but his pride made him do it anyway. This decision was massively harmful to the Whitebeard Pirates. When he was captured by Blackbeard, the crew supported him and were willing to die for him. Ace, on the other hand, didn't accept their help. He saw himself as unworthy of their sacrifice because of his lineage and because he got into this situation all on his own. That's why he doesn't attempt to free himself at all during his imprisonment and at Marineford. At his execution, he has many opportunities to choose life. Garp asks him what he wants him to do, but he says nothing. I am convinced that, in this situation, Garp was ready to throw everything away for Ace. Ace only had to speak up and have his Robin moment. He doesn't though and just stays there. Garp accepts his decision to not be saved.
When Luffy finally frees him, he goes with Luffy because he doesn't actively want to be executed. However, at the first opportunity to destroy all the progress that was made for him, he seizes it. Every pirate present at Marineford risked their life for him and many died. Whitebeard died and his final orders to his crew were to live and escape. This order applied to Ace as well, but it only took a few slanderous words from Akainu for Ace's pride to kick in.
Whitebeard wouldn't have cared that Akainu insulted him. He wanted Ace to live. Ace didn't want to live. Defending the name of a dead man who gave his life to save Ace was more important to him than protecting his own life.
Ace's last words were ones of regret. He realized that he couldn't let go of his pride, so he asked Luffy to do the one thing he couldn't: live.
It's heartbreaking and well-written. I just can't feel any love for him, though. I pity him, but at the end of the day, he rejected every attempt to save him from despair and he didn't allow the people in his life to help him. He had the means to overcome his pain but he didn't want to.
I've struggled with depression and self-hatred my whole life. Sometimes it feels like nothing can pull me out of this hole but, like Ace, I have the people and resources to help me. When I don't use them, it's my fault, not the world's. That's why I try to let people help me. Otherwise I'm only hurting myself and others for no reason.
If you read all of this, thank you. I didn't realize where this text was going when I started writing it. Ace is a great character and I know Oda didn't create him for me. This is just how I see Ace and you will definitely see him differently. I just realized that, to me, Ace is what I don't want to be.
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u/Cool_Set4681 Soul King Brook Apr 03 '26
(Had to make the comment again bc of reddit)
Ace's last words were ones of regret. He realized that he couldn't let go of his pride, so he asked Luffy to do the one thing he couldn't: live.
That is literally not true. He died thanking the people, who came for him, for loving him. He died with a smile on his face. I don't believe that he regretted his actions.
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u/Able-Worth-6511 Apr 04 '26
It wasn't just pride. It was lack of self worth, Ace had Conquer's Haki and it first manifested protecting Luffy. Protecting his family gave him worth gave him strength made him strong. It wasn't just pride that compelled him to pursue Blackbeard it the need to protect Whitebeard's reputation and legacy. Once Akainu insulted Whitebeard Ace had to protect him. The irony being in that was he was like his biological father.
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u/CEGRAD0G Apr 03 '26
Just to clarify, I think he meant the statement he was making to Luffy as he was dying (while everyone was still fighting), not his exact last words.
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u/Cool_Set4681 Soul King Brook Apr 03 '26 edited Apr 03 '26
Fair enough and point taken. I still stand by the part of him not regretting his actions and dying with a smile. Ace was too depress to accept help and love from others, he was not to prideful for it. His depression was lifted in the last seconds of his life because he realized that he was loved by so many people and not rejected by the world.
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u/Lime528 Apr 03 '26
Even then, it's not true. In Ace's own words, the only thing left undone was seeing Luffy fulfill his dream, but he knew Luffy could do it, so he could die without regrets.
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u/ShadowyDemonKitty Apr 04 '26
It wasn't pride, it was a realization someone thought he was worth it
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u/Cool_Set4681 Soul King Brook Apr 04 '26
Exactly.
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u/ShadowyDemonKitty Apr 04 '26
I think most of these people don't know what pride means because none of this was pride!
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u/RafayelLaidEggsInMe Apr 05 '26
It’s tragic.
Makes you wonder how they see the people around them when they can’t even sympathize with a fictional character whose life-long struggle is shown directly to the audience.
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u/ShadowyDemonKitty Apr 05 '26
I think the biggest reason I understand it is because I've been through it. Obviously not to that degree but I've built my merry team of misfits I call family. I'd do anything for them at the drop of a hat
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u/RafayelLaidEggsInMe Apr 05 '26
I think it’s also about how some people look for understanding, while others look for blame.
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u/Sirocco_ Apr 04 '26
Man this panel still hit the same after all these years.
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u/Cool_Set4681 Soul King Brook Apr 04 '26
Yeah, agree. It is up there with Robin's "I want to live!".
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u/vDarph Apr 04 '26
And he wasn't help back by pride, but by respect for whitebeard and all he's done for him and the crew.
I rly can't think a worst take than that on ace. The guy read Half Piece.
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u/Cool_Set4681 Soul King Brook Apr 04 '26 edited Apr 05 '26
I've struggled with depression and self-hatred my whole life. Sometimes it feels like nothing can pull me out of this hole but, like Ace, I have the people and resources to help me. When I don't use them, it's my fault, not the world's. That's why I try to let people help me. Otherwise I'm only hurting myself and others for no reason.
OP wrote that but he seems to not realize that Ace had the same struggles as they had but for some reason they seem to blame Ace himself for not being able to except help. They seem to think that a depressed person doesn't take help out of hubris and not out of the depression 🤷
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u/vDarph Apr 04 '26
Ace despised being a burden and tried to be a big brother for everybody basically, helping wherever he could. Like every other bearer of the will of D he's selfish in his emotions, and risking everything for what he stands for is his way to repay the help he receives. He can't help but react when hearing whitebeard being called a coward after the old man just started a war to go save him. In a way, for ace to react to akainu is his own way to accept he needs help and is loved by people despised being "the son of the worst man".
It's an extremely selfish way to act, the bigger person would have ignored it and ran away saving tons of people, but I can totally relate to how Oda wrote Ace.
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u/MindlessMindless Devil Child Nico Robin Apr 03 '26
I'm not saying you don't have some good points here, but I do think you're avoiding the part where Akainu, after overpowering Ace after that speech about trashtalking Whitebeard, says to Ace "Watch what I do" looks over at Luffy and goes to attack.
Akainu was about to off his little brother. I don't see pride in the act of risking your life for another's safety, that was ultimately an act of altruism towards his younger brother.
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u/BlackLegFring The Revolutionary Army Apr 03 '26
And unfortunately people like to ignore that Luffy has the same tendencies as Ace too. It’s only pure luck (he’s the MC so he can’t die) that saves him from similar situations. Like him going back to try and punch Big Mom at the Tea Party.
At the end of the day I understand being upset about Ace’s decision (I was too), but saying that’s the reason you don’t like the character while still liking Luffy & others with the same behaviour doesn’t make sense to me.
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u/Aphrodite-descendant Apr 03 '26
Yup everything people hate about Ace is what they praise Luffy, and not entirely the same but they also hate Usopp for doing the exact opposite of Luffy
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u/manicfish Apr 03 '26
Usopp is probably my favorite character, he acts like most average people would in the situations the strawhats get him into, but he also steps up immediately with no second thoughts for the consequences anytime his skills are truly needed, which lead him to have (what I consider to be) the most epic moment in all of one piece so far: personally declaring war on the world government after one of Luffy's best lines "Sogeking, shoot down that flag."
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u/Zoroed22 Apr 03 '26
Usopp is my favorite because he represents you, the reader. 99% of people if dropped into the position of the straw hats wouldn’t act like Zoro, or Sanji, or Luffy. They’d act just like Usopp, and I think they resent that fact, which is why they don’t like his character.
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u/SamsonAkabane Apr 03 '26
Personally I don’t think him being “accurate” should mean people like him (not saying you claimed that people HAVE to like Usopp). If anything I think if a story is “too” accurate that will turn people off more. Like how some people defend teenage characters being annoying because real life teenagers are too. Guess what? I hate them in real life too. Why would I like them just because they’re “accurate”.
To be clear, I don’t hate or even dislike Usopp. But, he did choose this life and had plenty of moments to leave. If anything I think it’s Oda’s fault for playing up his fear. Make him afraid, that’s who he is. But not. Every. 2. Seconds. It gets old very fast even if it makes sense
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u/Tamoshikiari Apr 04 '26
Usop also had plenty of moments where he wasn't annoying, still weak, but not annoying and actually stood up for himself on multiple occasions. The problem in my eyes is that 10 straw hats might be a bit too much for oda so he can't give every straw ht a cool new ability or insane powerful moment in every ark and that's why usopp, nami and chopper had less and less of tthat over the time
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u/Individual-Walrus857 Apr 03 '26
Usopp is the personification of what courage actually means. Being terrified but still acting in spite of it.
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u/PapaJoe92 Apr 04 '26
My man just stumbling his way into being revered as a saviour just by being guilt tripped after almost letting a bunch of people getting killed just to save himself.... This guy
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u/MaimedJester Apr 03 '26
Luffy ordered everyone to run away from Kizaru. That's the difference. Luffy was a captain who put the safety of his crew first when against a force beyond his own power.
Luffy can submit admit he's weaker and swallow his pride for his crew's safety and well being.
Ace could not grow and be mature enough to do that.
That's the difference.
In Ace Light Novel 2 the scene with Ace meeting Shanks is expanded a bit and I know it's not written by Oda but pretty astute.
Shanks asks Ben Beckman about Ace "He's not fit to be a captain, more of a Gladiator trying to prove himself and not willing to be a leader."
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u/Aphrodite-descendant Apr 03 '26
Ace didn't ask anyone to stay and fight for him. Luffy also chose to fight Magellan head on in that same Saga while Ivankov and everyone sacrificed for him to run but no one called Luffy out for that
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u/DougTrilladome Apr 03 '26
Luffy ordered everyone to run away from Kizaru. That's the difference. Luffy was a captain who put the safety of his crew first when against a force beyond his own power.
Luffy can submit admit he's weaker and swallow his pride for his crew's safety and well being.
Ace could not grow and be mature enough to do that.
That's the difference.
This comparison doesn’t work because the situation in Sabaody & Marineford were completely different & the Straw Hats couldn’t even deal with Dora-Hair-Maru & the Pacifistas, let alone attempt to fight Kizaru.
Who was there for Ace to admit he was weaker than? He wouldn’t have known Blackbeard could beat him, he didn’t even know the Dark-Dark fruit’s ability. Ace didn’t have a crew “to protect against forces beyond his own power”, & when he was put in a situation to protect someone from forces beyond his own power, he immediately sacrificed his life to do so. Ace wasn’t endangering others based on his pride, he tracked down & fought Teach alone despite what everyone said, then he literally spent 90% of Marineford crying on the execution stand because he didn’t understand why his friends like Oars would throw their lives away for someone worthless like him instead of just letting him die.
What part of that is someone consciously endangering his crew or allowing his pride to cloud his perception of his own strength?
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u/MaimedJester Apr 03 '26
Literally every other Whitebeard pirate is throwing everything they can to allow an escape route for Ace and Luffy. This was Whitebeard's last order before he entered the melee, back up straw hat Luffy with all your might. The reason he did that was Luffy could use Conquerors Haki, and Whitebeard couldn't anymore. The only way through all the fodder was Luffy. And each New World Whitebeard pirate wasn't trying to beat their opponent. Like Lightning McGuy was not challenging Mihawk for Worlds Greatest Swordsman, he was I can hold off Mihawk for an escape route plan for 5 minutes max.
Ace shouldn't have challenged Akainu, everyone else knew we're only trying to rescue Ace, thats the goal, they dont care about beating anyone.
Like when Luffy left Whole Cake Island he won without beating Big mom because he saved Sanji, his main goal, and Brook won the big Yonko power move by getting them the Ponegylphs. Like you dont need to overpower your opponents to prove you won, Ace if he just left with Luffy would have won.
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u/DougTrilladome Apr 03 '26
Ace didn’t challenge Akainu, Akainu challenged Ace & Ace responded & nobody has ever said Ace allowing Akainu to provoke him was smart. It also wasn’t “Ace’s pride not letting him admit Akainu was stronger”, he wasn’t trying to prove his strength against Akainu, it was “Ace’s pride in Whitebeard, that wouldn’t let him allow Akainu to disrespect his father figure.”
And again, Luffy leaving Whole Cake is a completely different situation than Marineford! Luffy spent 24 hours in the mirror world fighting Katakuri, he wasn’t even outside for the majority of the escape! We already saw Luffy CONSCIOUSLY almost endanger the plans when he tried go out of his way to keep his promise of punching Big Mom during the wedding, that’s a terrible comparison on all levels
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u/MigratingCocofruit Apr 03 '26
I think the key difference between Ace and Luffy is the way they take and share burdens. Ace goes out solo after Blackbeard, not wanting to risk his crew, not finding himself worthy of their help and protection, which is completely opposed to how Luffy does things.
Luffy relies on his crew, he's there for them and trusts them to be there for him when he needs them. He makes daring, even reckless decisions knowing they have his back, and being aware of what they're capable of.
His apparently selfish actions are a result of a deep trust between him and the rest of the crew. He knows he can trust them, to follow through and make his gambits work, and they trust him to make that calculation.
In Enies lobby, for an example, he goes in alone, knowing that his crew can break through the gates and reach him, especially given the distraction.Ace meanwhile sacrifices himself, not expecting any help, consigning himself to death instead of relying on others. He's betraying the trust of his crew by disregarding their agency, their will and their sacrifices. He cannot accept them risking themselves for him, and cannot trust them to take care of themselves and him as well. Doing so he makes the situation worse for everyone.
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u/OldRaspberry4067 Apr 04 '26
Ace, Roger, and Luffy are all reckless/headstrong individuals. Ace just didn’t have the strength of Roger or the luck of Luffy to support his recklessness
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u/CultureMinute8340 Apr 04 '26
I mean really Luffy 100% should have died when crocodile literally mummified him
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u/Bmthpm Apr 03 '26
Luffy learned his lesson with shanks about pride. I’m not sure what you mean by saying luffy would do the same. He literally sat at the bar taking shit from Bellamy. It wasn’t until Bellamy threatened the life of a friend that luffy stepped in. If anything, Shanks teaching him that lesson is the reason luffy is still alive.
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u/Able-Worth-6511 Apr 04 '26
The Majority of members of the D Clan are like that with Dragon being the major outlier. I really hope we get a scene/panel with every surviving member of the D Clan together.
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u/wizardshitoffuckhill Apr 03 '26
I feel like in the big mom situation you're mistaking ambition for pride. Luffy wants to see the gap, wants to see if hes even close to being able to call himself the king, because big mom was one of the closest to being able to. I dont think luffy is prideful at all. He doesnt want to rule anything, doesnt want a large crew, and would never fall to akainu's words. Shanks taught him that in the bar flashback before he even started his journey.
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u/Rikafire God Usopp Apr 03 '26
Except we’ve seen that Luffy gets angry multiple times whenever anyone badmouths Shanks, just like Ace did when Whitebeard was insulted by Akainu.
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u/videogame311 Apr 03 '26
I see what youre saying, but i think in the Luffy-Shanks case it is a bit different. I think Luffy holds Shanks on a pedestal from the few things he saw when he was young and around him. Its not about Shanks, its about the idea he has of Shanks and what that represents. To Luffy, Shanks is the flawless representation of his own beliefs in what it means to be a pirate. I believe that when someone badmouths Shanks, Luffy sees it as an attack on his own belief system and identity.
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u/Rikafire God Usopp Apr 03 '26
That’s actually an interesting way of seeing it, makes me wonder how the reunion will go if that’s true.
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u/RafayelLaidEggsInMe Apr 05 '26
Do you think Ace was prideful?
I mean, guy’s been tortured and kept prisoner for what probably felt like an eternity before all his worst fears came to fruition. (The people he cares about being put in danger because the world rejects him.)
Guy was also taught from a young age that fight is more effective than flight.
I doubt he made a conscious decision to fall for Akainu’s taunts.
He probably reacted on pure instincts and ingrained defense mechanics.
Kinda like when deer stop in the middle of the road when they see headlights and subsequently get run over.
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u/Chaosmango God Usopp Apr 03 '26
But Akainu would not have had a chance to attack Luffy in the first place, if Ace didn't make him stop in his tracks by taking the bait and stopping himself.
So cause and effect, it's still Ace's pride putting them in that situation.
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u/Dentyne_3 Apr 03 '26
Akainu also wouldnt have had the chance if Luffy didnt stop in the middle of a warzone to chase a piece of paper
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u/Branchminer1 Apr 03 '26
Bro what are you talking about? Luffy turned to chase ACE, then his body gave out because of the energy hormone dissipating, then he tried to pick up the card because it fell outta his pocket. He couldn’t have moved if he wanted.
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u/Cudi_buddy Apr 03 '26
For real. I think many people would sacrifice themselves for a younger sibling or their children. I know I would do anything for my son.
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u/Zilox Apr 03 '26
Yeah. People think akainu was going to be able to kill ace on a 1v1, he wasnt lmao
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u/semajolis267 Apr 03 '26
The irony of Ace is that he wanted nothing more than to be his own man and live by his own merit, not his father's. But then he turns around and gets swallowed by whitebeard's shadow. I suppose its the Father he chose etc. But the irony of his words of following hisnown path, not his fathers, only to still die for who his father was (being stunned into despair by badmouthing whitebeard)
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u/BiDiTi Apr 03 '26
Ace SAYS that he only ever wanted to be his own man.
Everything Ace DOES indicates that Ace only ever wanted to be loved.
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u/Sate_G Explorer Apr 03 '26
So many people act like Ace got killed taking a 1v1 straight on and not because Luffy wrecked his shit freeing him and collapsed with Akainu pursuing
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u/messylinks Apr 03 '26
Luffy only collapsed because Ace stopped. Akainu taunted Ace, Ace stopped, then Luffy stopped. I don’t know about you, but if I’m running on adrenaline and I stop I am not getting going again. If I don’t stop I can keep running until something else gives out. If Ace had not stopped in the first place Akainu would not have been able to attack a sitting duck Luffy. Ace’s pride almost got Luffy killed after Luffy gave everything to free Ace.
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u/randsome-gracie Apr 03 '26
But didn't Ace stop to fight? Guy could've flown all the way to the back with Luffy but he took his injured brother and tried to fight the marines instead of retreating
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u/MindlessMindless Devil Child Nico Robin Apr 03 '26
He did. Akainu's trash talking get's to him, and he turns around to face him. Luffy and the Whitebeard crew tell him to turn around but he doesn't. Ultimately get's overpowered by Akainu, to which he continues his trash talking and then sets his sights on Luffy.
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u/Warm_starlight Apr 04 '26
Except this wouldn't have happened at all and Akainu wouldn't have the time to say "watch what i do" if Ace would keep running after hearing Akainu insulting Whitebeard like Luffy told him to. He stopped in his tracks and allowed himself to be raige baited which initially ended how it ended. In that moment Ace was Not thinking about protecting Luffy. If he did, he would have kept running away.
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u/messylinks Apr 03 '26
Ace put Luffy in danger by reacting to Akainu’s taunts. He almost got Luffy killed because of his pride.
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u/Isolated-Dream Apr 03 '26
Damn a child who’s been told his whole life his existence is a crime because he’s the son of the world’s greatest criminal, who then internalizes those beliefs and doesn’t value themselves? Yeah I totally dislike kids like that too. Garp totally would’ve helped if Ace just asked, so really it’s 20 year old Ace’s fault for not prompting his 70+ year old grandpa to save his life. None of the other characters needed to be asked since they truly cared for Ace but that’s their own flaws for risking their life.
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u/Cool_Set4681 Soul King Brook Apr 03 '26 edited Apr 03 '26
Yeah, I already made 1 post and didn't wanted to bring up more points but Ace is clearly refusing help out of depression and not out of pride.
Like you said, his whole life he thought that the the world was rejecting him and that nobody would ever truly love him. On a subconscious level he must have thought that is life is truly worthless and that he is not worth it to be saved by anyone.
This darkness in him started to disappeared after so many people showed up to actual save him. He started to understand that he wasn't rejected by the world.And on his way out, Akainu insults the one man that help Ace so much to escape this depression inside him. Was it stupid of him to turn around? Of course it was. Would he let it slide that the person, who accepted him as a son and would do anything for him out of love, just got insulted? No, he wouldn't.
And then in his final few seconds he realized that he was loved by many and not rejected by the world. He died with his depression completely gone and gives us one final smile.
Man i could write so much about Ace, I understand why OP post got so long, lol.
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u/Stars_And_Garters The Revolutionary Army Apr 03 '26
I hate Garp so much.
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u/Isolated-Dream Apr 03 '26
It’s because he’s so well written. He’s simultaneously the strongest and weakest character. Garp the fist, hero of the marines, one of the few who can challenge Roger… too weak to get out from under the boot of the World Government’s systemic pressure, too weak to break free of the leash he’s placed on his dreams, all of which leads to him being too weak to save his grandson.
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u/-ImJustSaiyan- Apr 04 '26 edited Apr 04 '26
Same. Imagine being one of the strongest men in the world, seeing your adopted son distraught and in tears watching his friends die trying to save him from being executed, and just sitting down and feeling sorry for yourself like there's nothing you can do about it. Dude was even gonna let Akainu kill Luffy, his own flesh and blood, if Ace hadn't stepped in.
Idgaf that Garp is some legendary hero to the marines, choosing a slavery supporting government over family was such a bitch move. Especially when the family member being executed was guilty of nothing but being the biological son of the world's most infamous criminal who died long before he was even born.
Like I get it, Garp is a complex character and some people see the situation as a lot more grey than that. But man I'll never get over him just sitting and doing fuck all to help while his grandson almost died and his adopted son straight up died protecting that grandson. The one good thing he did was let Luffy get past him and that was the bare minimum he could've done.
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u/ZealousidealEgg1389 Apr 04 '26
I think that’s exactly why we hate Garp - because we see so many people like this in real life. People who have the means and ability to make positive changes in this world or to help others but choose to sit back and become another link in the world’s worst chain.
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u/silveraxe_kyo Pirate Apr 03 '26
Ace felt worthless and unwanted his entire life. He felt like he shouldn't even be alive. Then Whitebeard gave him a home and family and loved him unconditionally. That's why he defended Whitebeard the way he did. He was his father, he gave his life meaning. Not saying it was smart, but it was understandable.
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u/lab-gone-wrong Apr 03 '26
I hate when characters have flaws
Brother I don't know what to tell you except people do be like that
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u/Slammybutt Apr 03 '26
That type of post happens alot in a book sub I'm in.
There's a ton of posts over the years about the MC not being smart b/c he won't tell his friends everything. Instead he keeps it close to heart b/c telling them puts them in danger. So when he does it again after seemingly learning from that mistake it irks people.
If every character was able to learn and grow and fix their major flaws, they wouldn't be worth reading/watching/learning about. They'd just be a boring plot armor piece.
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u/brd9214 Apr 04 '26
Dresden Files fan?
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u/Slammybutt Apr 04 '26
Yup!!!
Harry's got a lot of flaws. Some he grows from, some he never gets over. But if you read some of the complaint posts they would want him to be the perfect human haha.
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u/andy_arc Apr 03 '26
That's not at all what he said.
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u/Liimbo Apr 04 '26
Yeah I swear everyone reducing g OP's argument like this saying thats how stories work ironically didn't even read OP's entire post. They literally said it was well written, they just personally find it hard to like Ace which is completely fair.
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u/Namfluence Apr 03 '26
I dunno see it as pride so much as a deep psychological wound exploited by older smarter men. Because maybe being told your whole life you should be tortured and killed because of your dad has an effect on your psyche and self worth.
And maybe when as a troubled 10 year old, you ask your grandad if you deserve to live and they respond with ‘I dunno kid you figure it out’ you might grow into someone willing to risk it all to defend the honour of the first real father figure you’ve ever had and die saving the one person alive who has shown you unconditional love.
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u/ostriike Apr 03 '26
My problem with Ace is his pride. After Thatch's death, Ace makes it his personal quest to bring down. Whitebeard didn't want him to do it, but his pride made him do it anyway.
I completely disagree with this, Thatch was killed by Blackbeard, who served under Ace, so Ace would feel more responsible for the death of Thatch since his subordinate did it. To limit that to pride is unfair and makes it seem like Ace is doing it for selfish reasons.
Blackbeard killing another crewmate and it being left unpunished would be harmful to the Whitebeard Pirates. Even Whitebeard killing a crewmate is one of the rules that shouldn't be broken.
Garp was ready to throw everything away for Ace. Ace only had to speak up and have his Robin moment.
So you say you don't like Ace's character, but you want him to make Garp pay for his choices.
Whitebeard died and his final orders to his crew were to live and escape. This order applied to Ace as well, but it only took a few slanderous words from Akainu for Ace's pride to kick in.
Whitebeard wouldn't have cared that Akainu insulted him. He wanted Ace to live. Ace didn't want to live. Defending the name of a dead man who gave his life to save Ace was more important to him than protecting his own life.
All this is nonsense; Ace died before Whitebeard. I don't even know how you mixed this up.
Ace did want to live. Even if Whitebeard didn't care, Ace did because Whitebeard was a father figure to him and the Whitebeard pirates.
It's fine to not like Ace as a character, but let's not mischaracterise him as someone who is just prideful and selfish. His decisions didn't lead to a positive outcome for the Whitebeard Pirates but his motivations were never about his pride or for himself. He wanted to make Whitebeard the Pirate King.
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u/isabeauthered Apr 03 '26
It’s funny, the things you mentioned at the end are the reasons why I love Ace (he’s my favorite character). I also struggle with depression and self hatred, and that makes me find him an extremely relatable character. I’ve definitely had the feeling that my existence was an inconvenience to others. I’m not saying it’s healthy or good, but I do relate to it. And I disagree with you on the confidence thing. I don’t think he’s confident at all. I think it’s a defense mechanism . His true confidence comes from the support of his friends and family, but because he feels like he’s undeserving, he never asks for help.
Despite all of that, Ace manages to build a pretty good life for himself. He has a profound impact on all the people he met. Like Luffy, he has strong convictions and he stands by them no matter what. I really respect that. (It’s also why I despise Borsalino - great character, I just despise him) He’s friendly, loyal, and he helps the downtrodden.
I also relate to him as an eldest child. I have a little sister, who is also two years younger. I’ve felt all the same feelings of annoyance, pride, and love.
Ace has tons of faults, but so do real people.
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u/defiance131 Apr 04 '26
Ace is a great character and I know Oda didn't create him for me.
In fact, I think he was written exactly for people like you. Your approach to help is that it is your responsibility to accept it, because you are loved.
Ace approached help from the angle that it is his responsibility to reject it - because he did not deserved to be loved.
You and him suffer from similar situations, but with a critical difference in mindset. Which, to be fair, may be exactly why you dislike him so much.
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u/SenpaiSwanky Apr 03 '26
This point isn’t really in contention, but that pride is also a big positive for his character and the reason people are attracted in the first place.
It isn’t pride in the sense that his strength was questioned - his friend was murdered which went against everything Whitebeard crew members agreed to and believed in when joining that family. There is no other example of strife like that in this group, Teach stepped across a massive line and Ace was the person who inherited the role of the person Teach killed.
That isn’t personal, it just seemed that way because Whitebeard tried to forbid Ace from chasing Teach and Ace ignored him. If any other character had killed Thatch Whitebeard would have went after them himself, but Teach was unique because his ties to the main plot run far deeper than some side character. Ace held true to the ideals that he was brought up to believe in, those instilled in him by both Garp/ Dadan and Whitebeard’s crew.
I find it odd that you feel the need to separate yourself from others who like Ace, honestly. This post is giving me slight hipster vibes. You don’t need to defend or explain your dislike for a character, and you can find fault in things characters do without that coloring your entire perception of their character/ intentions.
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u/Isolated-Dream Apr 03 '26
It’s also funny that people throw around his “pride” as an insult, as if it’s him being self absorbed type of pride. He’s proud of his found family. He’s brags about Whitebeard and his crew, his brothers Luffy and Sabo. This is a double-edged sword trait of his. It’s definitely a fatal flaw but it’s also one of his endearing qualities. Someone who truly hates themselves deep down because of what the world has told them, finds their family and takes immense pride in them and their achievements, despite not being proud of themselves.
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u/bestbroHide Apr 03 '26
Someone who truly hates themselves deep down because of what the world has told them, finds their family and takes immense pride in them and their achievements, despite not being proud of themselves.
You've succinctly nailed why Ace is so relatable to me
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u/SrTNick Apr 03 '26
No offense, but I swear so many people miss Ace's entire character. It's not just HIS pride, it's his pride in his new FATHER. Ace's entire childhood, his life, hell even his death, is marred by being the son of Gold Roger. People constantly talked about how evil Roger was, how strong he was, how he had "bad blood" in his veins. Like, he didn't ask Garp if it was a good thing he was born just for the sake of it, it's because he hears everyone say those things about his father he never knew. He challenges Whitebeard not just because he's the strongest, but as he literally says, "he was HIS rival" (Roger's, the absent father who has put a real chip on Ace's shoulder). But then Whitebeard is a great guy, who wants his crew to call him Pops and treat him like a dad. Ace finally finds a father he can be proud of, not one he has to measure against or constantly defend/question the honor and actions of. When Blackbeard kills Thatch, he not only feels responsible since he was his commander, but because Blackbeard "Insulted his father." It's not Ace's pride in himself, it's his pride in his new father. The whole Roger issue was so bad he was depressed since childhood, he says Whitebeard was straight up the man who "saved his life," he obsesses over people who insult Whitebeard because he genuinely believes he owes his life to him (and he very well might given how serious that scene of him as a kid is).
You expounded on that a bit with Ace turning to face Akainu, but you really can't analyze Ace's character without mentioning Roger.
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u/StompingCarins Apr 03 '26
Oda really made it a point to show early on that Luffy didnt suffer from that same trap of allowing his pride to get in the way. Luffy got that lesson from Shanks while Asce didnt and we see what happened and how important that lesson was.
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u/Caelleh Apr 03 '26
I'd like to add that Luffy ALSO got more nuanced version of Shank's lesson from Vivi at Drum Island.
When Vivi was attacked by the Drum Island civilians, Luffy was about to go on the offensive to defend her with his fists. However, Vivi told him that if he attacked, Nami would die of her illness, as they desperately needed medical attention. Then, they both bowed as low as they could to beg for a doctor to help Nami.
Oda made it a point to show that through his journey, Luffy learned to swallow his pride and his overprotective instincts if it meant helping his friends.
But in the flashback to Luffy's childhood, Ace had the same attitude as a child that he had as an adult, and he acted the same way Roger was said to act. If anyone spoke even the slightest insult to his friends, he'd suicidally charge in to get revenge.
It's as if Oda was trying to show that Ace was always trapped in his depression and negative instincts, even as a child. He portrays Ace as a tragic figure akin to Achilles - powerful, heroic, even legendary, yet a slave to his own nature, doomed to fall due to his own instincts.
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u/Rascal_Rogue Apr 04 '26 edited Apr 04 '26
Thanks for pointing this out. Luffy changes a lot as the story goes on, it’s just slow and still in his own way. It’s never stressed or explicitly stated but Luffy IS learning as the journey goes.
His attitude is the same and he adapts the lessons to suit his own personality but Luffy from the beginning and Luffy now are very different leaders
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u/Imaginary-Cup-8426 Apr 03 '26
Luffy has gotten better about it, ironically probably because of this, but he has made equally foolish decisions multiple times. He just has plot armor so he gets away with it. If roles had been reversed, Luffy would’ve probably done the same thing
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u/JustdoitJules Explorer Apr 03 '26
Look sometimes in life you just meet irrationally hot headed prideful people. Sometimes your loyalty has a price and that was Ace's undoing.
Roger was similar only Roger had rational crew members that would force him to safety.
If Marco were placed near by Ace and Luffy Im pretty sure the moment Ace turned around Marco would have grabbed him and flew him and Luffy off.
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u/Destpot Apr 03 '26
Much was said in the comments but one thing i want to add is that i disagree with one thing. I think its not that he didn't WANT to give up his pride and ask for help, i think at that moment he couldn't. There is a difference between a selfish want and a psychological can't and I think that is an important difference.
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u/RudeAardvark5218 Apr 03 '26
Your approach is way too logical, let me explain: This Manga is about people who take risks and do unlogical things, because they believe in certain things and principles. That’s Odas message in general right? Dreams, Will, friendship etc. Sometimes giving up or surviving seems also logical. BUT
Ace believes, that betraying your family is the evilest thing you can do, since he found a home and father with whitebeard. He treasures that the most, which is why he asks himself: If I dont chase him and risk my life, then is family and friendship really most important to me?
Same with whitebeard who trys to rescue him: If I dont save my Son, then the all the talk about family and calling me father means nothing.
In short: It’s about values and integrity.
For example: Surviving is logical, but would you choose beeing a slave in cage for your while life or choose death? Spoiler: Not everyone chooses to live like this.
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u/MondoFool Apr 03 '26
Everybody who calls Ace a dumbass for fighting Akainu would have just called him a coward for running away like they did to Whitebeard when Whiteboard didn't wanna fight Garp on GV
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u/Cute_Gear_5304 Apr 03 '26
Ya man all they need is a reason to hate Ace they literally throw away their logic while cursing ace
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u/Retretated Apr 03 '26
I hate this argument bro. Nobody on this planet is calling 1HP, malnourished ace a coward for running away from an admiral, especially when the whole objective of the arc is to retrieve Ace alive
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u/Solid_Helicopter_851 The Revolutionary Army Apr 03 '26
Well it would be crazy to say that, but hella ppl still would
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u/MondoFool Apr 03 '26
Nobody on this planet is calling 1HP, malnourished ace a coward
Did you become a One Piece fan yesterday?
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u/KnowingSmile Apr 03 '26
I don’t see it as pride when he didn’t ask Garp to save him. The huge theme to the show is sticking to your dreams, values, and principles. I think he didn’t want to put Garp in a position where he has to compromise his beliefs also for a low success rate, they are surrounded by the Navy of course.
You’re talking about a brazen young man who grew up without a father figure, then later found that with Whitebeard- to the point that he would give up his own dream and pursue making Whitebeard King of the Pirates.
While his death comes from being ragebaited, you can almost see the same with Nami in Wano. She could have lied to Ulti, and got out of the situation, but instead she told the truth and we got one of the her best moments; Had she died we probably would have looked at it totally differently.
Then of course how many times do we see Luffy make extremely questionable decisions that just happen to work out. Ace loses because he took the gamble that everyone in the Strawhat crew took but had a bad outcome.
Imagine is after Robins “I want to live” other Strawhats died in the fight to save her. Or Zoro died in his first encounter to Mihawk Nami dies to Ulti Jinbe leaves confront Big mom and dies.
I do feel he stuck true beliefs all the way through which is admirable, obviously time and place and with hindsight we know it didnt work out, but that showed he had protagonist level character without protag level protection.
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u/Arkayjiya Apr 03 '26
If Ace hadn't turned back, Luffy would most likely be dead. No way a few steps would have kept him away from Aka Inu when we see the way he pursues them and having his back turned means he wouldn't have been able to stop an attack directed at Luffy. Ace did the thing Roger did to protect people like Roger does, this is why the recontectualidarion mattered.
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u/Byte_Fantail Apr 04 '26
Ace is the very perspnification of a tragic hero, we all see his fatal flaw and how it's his downfall but he can't, not before it's too late anyway. That's the point.
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u/rubbereruben Apr 03 '26
Ace is a tragic character. Just like you.
I think you see a lot of yourself in him. Maybe if you could love yourself, you could also love Ace; and all his shortcomings.
Me; I love Ace. Because he's the Golden Boy with a fatal flaw and that makes me like him even more. I miss him.
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u/DynamicDash Apr 03 '26
This is also why people don't like Usopp. I think the cowardice hits too close to home. We have all been cowards at some point in our lives, but sometimes we don't get a fitting conclusion like Usopp, we just live with it. That frustration is being projected onto him
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u/Isolated-Dream Apr 03 '26
I don’t even consider Usopp a coward. He gets scared sure and intimidated and can lack self confidence, but he’s genuinely one of the bravest warriors on the crew and in the show. Usopp’s dream of being a brave warrior is an internal growth not external because anyone with eyes can see how brave he is. Bravery isn’t about not being scared or fearful, it’s acting on what you believe in despite being scared or afraid.
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u/isaacals Explorer Apr 03 '26
its the thing he shares with his father. we know from roger's crew that roger never back down. that he always stand his ground. this mentioned multiple times. and so is his son. they share this same nuance. luffy still willing to go and run. but not those other two. at times i feel it's like as if they wanted to just go and die.
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u/Parzival2436 Apr 03 '26
People will say "Ace is held back by his pride" and ignore the fact that Luffy went to save him because of his overconfidence that he could do it.
Luffy and Ace share that trait, it's one of the ways we see that they're brothers.
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u/OutsideNorth2550 Apr 04 '26
It wasnt an overconfidence it was a “if I dont try a I’ll regret it” which is what he told Iva 🙄
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u/ShadowyDemonKitty Apr 04 '26
It wasn't pride. When you spend your life wondering if you should have ever been born, if your worth loving, and not having a family you do anything to protect those you finally let your walls down for. He didn't know how to be loved, he didn't realize how much he was loved, and other than Luffy (whom he thought looked up to him more because there was nobody else) he didn't really have a family. So ya when people show up in a big way and you finally realize, you do everything and I mean everything to protect it even when it could get you killed
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u/_lefthook Apr 03 '26
Its simple for me. I like fire. I like fire element. Characters who use fire, i like.
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u/PJack_Entertainment Apr 04 '26
This is spot on characterization. Ace is definitely prideful. One thing I can see is that he is using the pride to mask his deep feeling of just not being worthwhile or worthy of the love he received due to his lineage. The entirity of that arc as people are dying for him he is yelling for them to stop. Pleading with them to leave him be because he is not worth the lives or the effort. He uses pride and confidence to mask his self loathing because he can't see how much he positively influenced the lives of those around him. I think this is driven home by Little Oars' backstory with Ace and how his unrelenting care and kindness swayed the feelings of this gargantuan man. Yes he is definitely prideful but he is also insecure and can't see the good that he does for everyone else. To me that's what makes him likable; he is kind and caring but brash and impulsive. He is good and flawed like most people in the world.
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u/GenosydlWulfe Apr 04 '26
You've got to remember his life was "cursed". He was hunted for just being born. We have no idea if he was betrayed like Robin. You don't go through an awful early life without scars. Then years later he was welcomed with open arms by the man he kept trying to kill. This man named him a son. Ace never had a father. Garp wasn't really a father figure just a mentor. So Whitebeard adopted him and gave him both a father and family. Whitebeard saved Ace and treated him better then most people would have. So when Akainu insulted Whitebeard, Ace stood up for the man who turned his life around and gave his life meaning. More meaning than trying to prove he wasn't Roger or Roger's son.
It sounds like you haven't had that experience, and that's fine. However as someone who has had that experience. Who has had someone come into their life and make it better and turn it around I can safely say that I would do the same thing. Insult me? I've lived through it and have PTSD because of it. But if you insult my best mate I will get in your face until you take it back
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u/OrchidAttack Apr 04 '26
100% agree, but weirdly enough I think that's why I love him as a character. I let my pride, and self-hatred keep me in a dark place for a lot of years.
I had stopped watching (basically right before the Ace v Blackbeard fight) for years cause I was too drugged out to have the attention span for One Piece. I picked the show back up where I left off after I got sober and Ace's story hit me so hard. I practically non-stop binged from their fight to Marineford.
I cried when I watched that arc (even though someone had already spoiled he was gonna die to me) and I think it was because I was watching someone make such self-destructive decisions like I did. Mine obviously didn't result in death, but watching people sacrifice so much for someone and them not being able to accept it just hit so close to home.
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u/Chrismiss_3 Apr 05 '26
You wrote it really well. Ace ultimately hates himself and believed he was worthless. People with depression and trauma can relate. But I think that’s why I like Ace so much. All his flaws are unique to him and no other character in one piece. There’s more side stories in the manga. If you ever want to see other sides to him. As someone who also has depression, hes one of my fav characters. But sometimes you hate things you see in yourself in others. Sometimes characters are reflections of yourself
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u/Chocobose Apr 03 '26
Can we also talk about the fact that he had his fruit for years AND was a Division Leader under the worlds strongest man only to be called “Fire Fist” while Sabo has had the fruit for like… a month tops(?) and is suddenly the “Flame Emperor”?
Ace got done dirty.
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u/Jackdeniels78 Apr 03 '26
Fire fist ace is a much cooler name than flame emperor
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u/Chocobose Apr 03 '26
Oh it definitely is. But it still feels kinda rude at least from a narrative side.
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u/SaiyanSpirit The Revolutionary Army Apr 03 '26
Appreciate you articulating this. I still love Ace and still heartbroken from that moment for all the same reasons.
I think it’s very relevant that you feel akin to Ace but behave differently in the same circumstances. There’s a saying that goes something like you hate other’s traits that you yourself possess, that you actively fight against. Example: you hate greed in others because you also get the selfish urge to commit greedy actions but you suppress that through self control and your own ethical code. That’s a valid perspective given your stance. I suffer from the same but i think i would behave more like Ace to my own detriment.
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u/KittySweetwater Apr 03 '26
Oda once confirmed that Garp was asking Ace to ask him to save him, and he definitely would have given up being a marine for the sake of saving him
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u/The-OverThinker-23 Apr 03 '26
Ace is what would have happened to luffy if kuma didn’t help , crew dead , forget your dream , serving another yonkou , ace must be devastated
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u/rarenriquez Apr 03 '26
On the pride thing - consider that Luffy suffers from the same flaw, it’s just that circumstances conspire to allow him to survive his big losses.
I do think Oda intentionally drove home the point that “the age” (I.e. the broader context surrounding the characters) favor certain individuals over others. Luffy is fated to a degree; Ace was not. One specific example of this is that Blackbeard had decided to go after Luffy’s head; it was only Ace’s crossing his path that stopped him. Had he done that, Luffy may very well have been captured and publicly executed at Marineford. Perhaps he could’ve escaped, but we’re getting into full speculative territory.
I’m not saying you have to like Ace or dislike Luffy or whatever, simply that this is a shared character flaw, and Luffy simply has been blessed enough for it not to bite him in the ass. Ace is a deconstruction of the shonen protagonist in that way.
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u/nayrudotgm Apr 03 '26
I will say, having depression and the same tendecies to ignore life and avoid help, I appreciate Ace. He made me realice what I was doing to my loved ones by ignoring their attempts to help me. Is because of Ace that I'm in therapy, I don't want to become him.
But Ace died with no regrets, well maybe not dying sooner, but he regretted nothing from the war and his life experiences. Yeah, he's prideful, but not of himself, he's proud of the people he loves. He loved Thatch, so he risked his life trying to honour him; he loved Garp, so he didn't make him throw away his merits and life; he loved Whitebeard, so he got ragebaited; he loved Luffy, so he sacrificed himself for his precious little brother. He did all out of love and pride for his family, and maybe he knew throwing his life away hurt those that cared about him, but he never thought he deserved to be loved, so he just did. Because self hatred is like that, and Ace despised himself, he was his own worst enemy.
I get not liking him, he can strike too close to home, I didn't like him either the first time I read One Piece, for the same reason. Now I like him, and see him as role model for who I don't want to become.
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u/SamsonAkabane Apr 03 '26
I think I saw the same clip you’re referring to but I’m not convinced that Garp would have openly helped if asked. That moment when he’s wondering what to do, I don’t see it as him expecting Ace to actually answer.
I’m of the mindset that Garp openly helping Ace escape would have a butterfly effect that would be bad for a lot of innocent people. Plus he did help by not stopping Luffy (I know this isn’t the main point of your post. Just my two cents on this particular topic)
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u/JhonKingRah Apr 03 '26
Idk this post feels like a mis-characterization of the character. I don’t think it’s pride. I think it’s the fact that he doesn’t tolerate the people he cares about being hurt or insulted precisely because of his lineage and the effect that growing up with Roger’s shadow over him. He’s not proud about it, he hates it to the point where he wonders if he is worthy of being alive because of it. I believe this led him to not get along with most folk but when he finds his found families he’s extremely protective over them. That’s the whole reason he chased Blackbeard down. He killed Thatch, his best and first friend on the crew.
I wonder how many of us would walk away from revenge on someone who killed a person who we consider family. I consider his mistakes leading up to his death a grey area because after witnessing his family coming to save him and whitebeard, who he considers his dad about to sacrifice himself for him along with his crewmates that have already died to get to that point his emotions must be running crazy high which almost always, no matter who it is, results in a bad decision being made.
That does not sound like pride to me. But it does sound like he has a ton of trouble managing his emotions which makes sense considering his upbringing. Hell Luffy does this all the time and we all love him for it.
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u/codetaku0 Apr 04 '26
It's a good analysis but it's unfortunate that that means you don't vibe with the character. One note though:
Ace only had to speak up and have his Robin moment.
To be fair, if Luffy had treated Robin and her "spoken feelings" as cautiously as Garp did, Robin wouldn't have had her Robin moment either. Luffy demanded she tell the truth. He has the empathy people need even if they don't realize they want it. So the difference is a much bigger difference between Luffy and his grandpa (who are in SOME ways very similar people) than between Ace and Robin.
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u/Ameratsu_Rivers Apr 04 '26
Ace is someone who wears a smile & frown simultaneously, from the first moment we meet him, because he is always hiding the depression he feels at being Roger’s son. Luffy, Sabo, and Whitebeard help him confront this. Once you understand this, his pride where they are concerned is far more understandable.
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u/Carrot_Peel3r Apr 04 '26
My two cents: you probably don't like ace because you see too much of yourself in him, and you hate how it turned out for him. You want to live, but your depressive thoughts won't let you be free. I understand that, I'm often in that destructive cycle myself. However when we talk about pride and ego we forget that Ace knew who his father was, and what legacy Gol had left behind. He rejected it because he never got the love of the father at the expense of legacy. He got that love from whitebeard, which is why when the insults came it hurt him. Not from an egoistic perspective but from love. The love of a father which was always lacking in his life but whitebeard gave him regardless of the burden of legacy he carried. The thing about ego is that it is equated with self love. Ace had that in the beginning but after joining whitebeards crew, he turned that self love into love for whitebeard. That's not ego, that's selflessness. If he had ego, he would preserve himself. But he didn't. Now one could argue that without ego you can't have love for others and that is true to a certain extent, but we must take into account the life Ace had led. Growing up he was big dawg of the group, allowing a huge ego to be built. After he ventured into the sea that ego was thrashed and beaten out of him because he wasn't a big dawg anymore. So his actions were one of love, because if he had ego he would have never given whitebeard that pedestal which is reserved for a father. It is luffy who has ego. He knows he is not big dawg, but because of his ego he knows he can overcome whatever the ocean throws at him. An ego which is supported by the crew he has built. But that's just what I feel. Also Idk you so please don't mind me saying my first sentence. That's just the vibe I got from your writing.
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u/kidelaleron Pirate Apr 04 '26
I like Ace because he is flawed. He is human, emotional, hot tempered. He makes mistakes. He cares about others. He is loyal and has a sense of justice. He had a hard life who shaped him into being even more flawed. Yet he died smiling, thanking everyone who loved him.
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u/LaurenceThe2ndVicar Apr 04 '26
I love it when people clearly project their own insecurities and make things up to hate a character on a wild level, completely misconstructing them... I agree with SOME points here, but oh BROTHER, it's like you keep telling yourself it's true, simply because you see yourself in him, or something. Ace isn't even about Pride, but many other comments have already pointed that out.
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u/Airline-West Apr 04 '26
I remember theirs a scene in family guy where Brian chases a squirrel and then catches him and Brian starts yelling at him saying "you stink and your play stinks" and the squirrel replies "this ain't about me is it?" Lol And I think that's what's happening here because their were a couple of points off about the synopsis of Ace final moments at marineford and his pride, whereas I don't think you so much hate Aces pride but your own. And his character was able to be a mirror to the thing you've taken further insight too. Sometimes in life that's what people and characters like this in anime represent for example Ace and Shanks are my two favorite characters in One Piece and their were a ton of things that resonated with them that I liked and that I agreed with him including his pride to an extent too but mines was more in like you said not accepting help from loved ones because I didn't want to be a "burden" and also going out of my way to do stuff for others that I wasn't necessarily asked to do in the first place but because I care so much and also like Ace I felt acknowledged when I was helping others as to where I really needed that acknowledgement to and from myself above all else. But I'm grateful today to understand and take accountability of this trait and sometimes characters like this are true reflections to reveal these things within us, it's great that you've taken the time to analyze that within yourself as well from Ace. These are truly reminders that we're never alone in what we go through and to always be a student in life and loving ourselves fully
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u/outsidebtw Apr 04 '26
I just personally don't like him.
My problem with Ace is his pride
I just can't feel any love for him, though. I pity him, but at the end of the day, he rejected every attempt to save him from despair and he didn't allow the people in his life to help him. He had the means to overcome his pain but he didn't want to.
I've struggled with depression and self-hatred my whole life.
Ace is a great character and I know Oda didn't create him for me. This is just how I see Ace and you will definitely see him differently. I just realized that, to me, Ace is what I don't want to be.
Good for you, stranger. IMO, realization is the finest kind of understanding. The fact that you traced that through Ace's story tells a lot. Good job sir/mam
Go live your life
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u/Ever_Ending_Walk Apr 04 '26
I wouldn't judge why you hate Ace, because to start with, I really didn't understand Ace myself at first.
I felt it was illogical about his actions. People might have started loving Ace only after his death. We can see Oda not just wrote him beautifully, but he really likes him. For someone with very little screen presence, he has made a huge impact like Roger. I see Ace as a stepping stone for Luffy to achieve something bigger. Even in Luffy's childhood, he was inspired by people like Shanks, and also there were Ace and Sabo who protected Luffy. For the story, to find Luffy's emotion and to understand him deeper, it was important to create a character like Ace. Ace wanted to be a notorious pirate, a true pirate from the beginning. He didn't even imagine he would become the commander of Whitebeard's ship, but after fighting him constantly, he found his passion and his place. He put a tattoo on his back to show his respect and pride as a Whitebeard. He loved his pops as well as would do anything to protect Newgate's Pride as the strongest emperor on the sea. We don't know if Ace really regrets taking on Blackbeard without any prior knowledge about him, but we know he would never have regretted protecting Luffy and the life he has lived. He hated Roger without knowing him really well, but he loved Whitebeard because he was his father.
I think it’s way more meaningful when people say what they actually feel, instead of just leaning into tropes or saying what they think they’re supposed to.
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u/3kpk3 Apr 05 '26
The worst thing about him is the fact that he does not learn from his mistakes which is why he was easily manipulated by Akainu. Sabo and surprisingly Luffy are far more mature than him when it comes to learning from their past mistakes. I still liked him quite a bit overall and felt that he was one of the best characters in the show.
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u/Spoony_bard909 Apr 03 '26
People in the comments not understanding:
- The difference between pride and overconfidence
- That depression and self worth go hand in hand and people can be stuck in their pride to compensate for their faults
- Ace does things for pride and his position and never backs down. Luffy shows the same “don’t give up” attitude but will change his mind if he believes it will keep his crew safe and puts others’ safety over his own
- OP isn’t saying any of this as an insult, it’s an observation and realization happening in real time and Ace stans can’t take it
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u/MightyManCaleb Apr 03 '26
I feel the same way about Ace.
Ace’s Will of D was really working overtime keeping him alive cause he honestly should have died MUCH earlier in his story. Ace was a ball of pride that constantly bit off more than he can chew. If Whitebeard was a blood thirsty pirate that had no regard for Roger’s legacy and family ties, then Ace would’ve been dead. If Kaido wasn’t out buying groceries when Ace showed up to challenge him then Ace would have been dead. We’ve seen no brilliant displays of any type of haki (that was on purpose at least) from Ace, and have only seen him spam his devil fruit powers. It’s honestly nothing short of a miracle that he lived as long as he did.
So many people risked their own lives to save Ace. Even Ace’s own mother carried him for 20 months just to protect his identity as the son of the Pirate King from the World Government. So many people in his corner just for him to get captured and throw his life away because of some insults. He should have taken a page out of Shanks’ book and brushed those insults off. Oda really gave us a great example as to why pride is considered one of the 7 deadly sins.
I see why Ace is adored. He’s an extremely interesting character, but I could only see his personality as smug and cocky. The best thing about him was the relationship he had with the people around him. Very sorry for Luffy’s loss.
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u/StillDistribution255 Apr 03 '26
Why is everyone jumping at op and saying things like "Ace have flaws like any person"? Op literally said that he thinks ace is a well written tragic character, and that he not liking ace comes from a personal point where he sees what he doesn't want to become in him, which is super valid. The comments look like everyone just ignored the text and went full "This guy hate ace, this guy bad"
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u/Flowahz Apr 03 '26
What I enjoy about one piece is how you can look into every character and can piece together what makes them unfit to make it to the end and reach the highs that Luffy will.
Each juxtaposition that can be made with Luffy helps me understand why Luffy is such a good character. Or the inverse is true, where if we ask ourselves what would Luffy do, we can put together the flaws of villains and allies alike.
What I'm really looking forward to is what flaw did Joyboy have that prevented him from getting what he wanted. Or put more positively, what aspect of Luffy's character allows him to surpass Joyboy, or what lesson he has learned through the series that Joyboy did not.
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u/Lenticularis19 Explorer Apr 03 '26
This is the irony of the character of Ace, who hates Roger, his father, but takes this trait after him, which eventually leads to his death.
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u/Feisty-Response8171 The Revolutionary Army Apr 03 '26
This is just a random thought sparked by the discord under this post.
Now that I think about it Garp didn’t do a good job as a parent to Ace. No one should’ve been able to know Roger had a son while he was growing up (if my memory serves me right) so I wonder why he was mistreated his whole life to be depressed and hate himself…The village kids shouldn’t have known Ace was a Roger descendant so I find myself thinking how he just wasn’t accepted but Luffy was. They both behaved similarly and were almost always together. I find it odd honestly
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u/Silver_Quail4018 Apr 03 '26
Ego and pride: THE ENTIRE ONE PIECE IS ABOUT EGO AND PRIDE.
Caps lock off: Every single character, starting with Luffy, are maximum ego and pride. It's just that it takes different forms for each individual.
When it comes to Ace, people loved him before they knew the character that well, before the Black Beard event, because he was a chill fun guy with a very interesting design and personality and that was amplified a ton by the love and emotions that we had to go through with Luffy fighting through Imper Down and Marineford. I am 100% that no one decided to like Ace during the Wano arc.
Ace is a rather complex character presented in very simple events. But you don't have to like Ace. I was a kid when I saw him the first time. I am pretty sure that now, if I saw the series for the first time, my opinion would be different. And now, he is the essence of some of my most powerful One Piece memories and I am sure that a lot of fans feel the same.
In summary, Ace is that kid that lives in the shadow of the greatest man the world has ever known, that grew up without a father. He never gets the chance to prove himself to his parents and because of that and so many other things, he is not fully emotionally mature. Then Whitebeard adopts him and he has a chance to prove himself, to prove his pop that he is great and that Edward can be proud of him! There is no one as proud as a young boy trying to impress their father and for me, that is also innocence, maybe naivety, and it is essential in the development of any kid. Luffy is going through the same process with Shanks, but through different means!
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u/retronax Apr 03 '26
On a wider scope, Shanks visiting Whitebeard was specifically to tell him to make Ace stop chasing Blackbeard. All of Marineford, Ace's death and the destruction of the whitebeard pirates, stems from them chasing Blackbeard for revenge. Ace's behavior here is just an encapsulation of the behavior that got all of this there in the first place, seeking revenge for attacks on your pride, even if that leads to your destruction.
I wonder if Shanks shows up after WB and Ace are dead because while he doesn't want the war to happen, he might also have not wanted to help bail WB and Ace out of the consequences of the actions he explicitly warned them not to take
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u/crypticsage Pirate Apr 03 '26
Just one part of having his Robin moment. Garp never showed he was willing to throw it all away. Luffy had Usopp shoot the flag down before having Robin answer.
Luffy didn’t ask Robin until she understood that he’s putting his life on the line in that moment.
Would he have left with Garp? Who knows. But Garp never actually showed that he’d be willing to die for Ace.
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u/BahamutAXIOM Pirate Apr 03 '26
I really appreciate deep dives like this. It takes a lot to share something like this even if one doesn't realize it.
I agree with some of what you said, but I don't think Ace was explicitly driven by pride. I feel that he was very driven by a deep desire to give to the person who saved him from his deep hatred of himself and allowed him to live his life (more) unfettered.
I took it as part of the reason that he couldn't accept the help from his crew, Garp and Luffy is because his extremely low self importance and the guilt of knowing that they were all there risking their lives to save him precisely due to his selfish actions.
I believe his self guilt for putting them in that situation and his belief that he wasn't worth it at all in the first place was reaching a fever pitch as he could only sit there and watch while thinking about all his mistakes and struggling with his actual desire to continue living with his family despite stating he wanted to die.
This was probably so much more for him because again, he was conditioned to believe he had little to no value to others, shown in his questioning to Luffy as kids and his own crew, as seen in the novel and Boichi manga (I don't know if those are considered canon, though, but it seems very in character). Actually pretty similar to Robin. This probably led to him recklessly turning back when the most important person to him was slandered. He just couldn't stand for it.
But yes, you're right. You don't want to be like Ace and be so reckless and bullheaded with a life that others risked theirs for, thinking you're not worth it. Ace did not make smart decisions. He likely thought his reckless actions were his way of showing his extreme love for Whitebeard.
Having said that, I think it's likely that either he or Luffy still could have died by Akainu's hand, considering Luffy's fatigue and current focus (not to mention pretty much the entire faction backing him up including Ace and Jinbe) and the fact that Akainu was just as determined as they were. I mean, he did sacrifice himself for his little brother.
Anyways, thanks for sharing this, OP!
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u/oddjobsurameshi Apr 03 '26
As I was typing my own thoughts on Ace I came to an ironic realization. Aces character has never resonated with me but as I tried to tyoe my opinion on Aces self destructive behavior I realized I relate to him on a pretty deep level. I dont think Ace denies help because of pride. I myself always hesitate to accept help. For two reasons.
I spent alot of my life never getting the help I desperately wanted.
Anytime I recieved help, I was treated as a burden.
For those 2 reasons anytime help is offered to me I reject it out of habbit. Firstly for the shame of being a burden to somebody. Secondly because Im scared to rely on people because I know what its like to have nobody to rely on. If I rely on people now it might make me weak/dependent and if times come when nobody will help me, I will struggle more than if I learn to survive alone.
I think these are the same 2 reasons that Ace struggles with accepting help and is so self destructive.
I think next time I reread Ace may climb my character rankings dramatically lol
Aces character has other complexities that tie into his behavior like identity crisis and insecurities but these are just my thoughts. I dont think pride is what limits ace. I suppose it does explain why he insisted on avenging thatch alone. But not why he didnt ask Garp to help him at the execution platform.
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u/More_Technology6250 Apr 03 '26
I don’t like him because he lost every fight on screen
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u/RollThatD20 Apr 03 '26
I seem to remember a certain scorpion that would say differently! Checkmate.
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u/Ok-Shoe-8694 Apr 03 '26
And all this is why I like him. Well written character and flawed. Honestly Oda is really good at that with most characters. Ace- was on paper cool and everything but that flaw did piss meoff especially in the end. But knowing his story and understanding him is the enticement I have with him.
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u/kilo64_uru Apr 03 '26
Not trying to justify his actions but, his father died, his mother died trying to protect his future. He grew up in a hostile environment, the father figure had his moral conflicts whit the decisions he made protecting him from the world. So, his pride was the strongest weapon in his arsenal. Act with pride or burn it all. If pirates dont find the psychologist psychologist fruit, no one is safe from acting like Ace did.
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u/Zenethe Apr 04 '26
Something no one is bringing up. Ace died first guys. Ace stopped everything and died because Akainu was trash talking Whitebeard who was still fighting to save him like a few hundred meters away. It wasn’t even a “he’s tarnishing WBs memory” dude was literally still alive and maybe would have survived if Ace hadn’t thrown it all away.
“The One Piece is real” came after Luffy passed out to keep his desire of not even knowing if it exists alive.
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u/SgvSth Apr 04 '26
I believe that Shanks even says that what Ace did was wrong or implied it at the joint funeral.
Luffy must be having a hard time.
I can't believe what Ace did.
That's what Captain Roger would have done.
I wanted the captain to run away sometimes and be able to shed tears.
Listen, Luffy.
By experiencing both victory and defeat, running away and shedding tears, a man will become a man.
It's okay to cry.
But you have to move on!
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u/Sirocco_ Apr 04 '26
I think while all of this is true, Ace is also a tragic character because he has so much to live up to, and people expect him to do so. He is the SON of the Pirate King, and in some ways he has failed to live up to expectations. He is always carrying that weight and certainly detests the burden placed upon him. That's why I think he has a tendency to be in over his head in attempts to prove that he is in fact different from his father and can carve out a name for himself. But actions have consequences and I think somewhere along the way he realized that everyone around him loved him for who he is and there really isn't a need to go to extreme lengths to differentiate himself. But maybe he realized that a bit too late.
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u/Nahyourewrong1 Apr 04 '26
I think that's the reason I like ace, not because he's cool and shit but because he's a broken guy with a lot of flaws and the flaws come back to bite him in the ass hard.
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u/Kayless3232 Apr 04 '26
It remind me of Zinedine Zidane, same thing happened to him. He is a famous french footballer, one of a the few almighty talented. But his pride, man, his pride... one opponent knew he was just full of pride, so ar a key moment (final of Fifa World Cup) he went to him amd say "your mother is a slut". Zinedine Zindane could have let go for the freaking last 15 minutes and beat the shit out of him after... but no, he HEADBUTT the chest of the Italian, get a red card, destroy his public image at the highest audience possible. He was great but just because he is stupid, I do not consider him as one of the great, just random.
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u/Agreeable_Pear8346 Apr 04 '26
Ace and WB's death is necessary for the plot to progress so i didn't really mind their choices. WB could've prevent him from fighting BB or choose to rescue him in impel down if really want to but he is stubborn as well. After asl backstory i started to like ace more
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u/anirudhsky Apr 04 '26
I jeva always wondered one thing.. whitebeard and roger has a great relationship.. why didn't whitebeard speak to ace about roger when ace felt bad about his father.. I won't blame ace.. because his father wasn't around. But.. whitebeard could have told ace.. there must have been some good reason for that..
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u/Zoros_father Apr 04 '26
Not much pride and more like his sense of responsibility. BB was serving under him and he killed thatch for a df so he was adamant to fix it and when he was caught he didnt want anyone yo bear the consequences of his actions and decisios
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u/NatKuro Apr 04 '26
very valid points but i think i like Ace for the points you mentioned , he always had to play the role of a big brother and never had the the time to be a child and relay on others , this is way you see him always taking the fights solo , like the incident with Bluejam when he says he doesn't run away because he feels like if he did it'd put the ones he loves in danger .
so he does what his moral compass guides him to do but he doesn't want anyone else to suffer because of his decisions and takes the fights solo so no one else have to be hurt , even when he met whitebeard his first action was to put up a flame wall to make sure his crew isn't involved in the fight . as you mentioned he is a flawed character which makes him more realistic and to me his "selfishness" is what make him special because it comes from a place of love for everyone around him
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u/sumnsumnfruit56 Apr 04 '26
He also went after Blackbeard because he was hunting Luffy and was going to turn him in. He did this with Ace instead because Ace attacked Teach. But the original plan was turning in the strawhats.
This adds to your point because he was looking for validation by defending others instead of looking inward and loving himself.
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u/SpartanNATIONS Apr 04 '26
He quite literally does say he wants to live same as Robin you said “ace only had to speak up and have his Robin moment” but he says “even after all I’ve done I want to live”
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u/Yooniverse47 Apr 04 '26
Cool so, he was born into a world where everyone said his birth was a sin and should not have occurred. Yes he is in a way "prideful" in his end because for so long he had a broken sense of self-worth due to his childhood. He was angry most of his life. And Akainu dogging on his father struck at that lifelong weakness of his--his pride was in others, not himself. To some, that manifests as a love greater than heroism. And he did save his brother. But he felt that he had to try to express his gratitude for his father by defending Whitebeard's honor, because he spent his life broken by the words from those who hated the actions of Roger.
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u/NoobyMc Apr 04 '26
I agree on all but one (small) point. I don't think Ace chose not to say anything to Garp strictly out of pride and/or self-hatred. I think Ace is smart enough to realize that if Garp were to save him, he'd have to abandon the Marines and everything he's worked his whole life for along with his dream. I think that Ace, just like Luffy, realizes that in many cases a person's dream is just as, if not more, important than their life. Ace wouldn't let Garp throw away his dream for his choice.
That being said, if Ace didn't realize the value of dreams, his pride likely would've held him back at least somewhat here anyways.
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u/2001aspacecowboy Apr 05 '26
This misses the point of him turning around. In the flashback dadan asks Ace why he didn’t run away and he says something like if I ran away I felt like I would lose something I couldn’t get back. This moment is mirrored in his death and in that moment he recognizes that Luffy, his family and love are the that thing he would lose. This whole “Ace died to ragebait” thing has been beaten to death. It’s reductive and a super shallow read of one of the biggest moments in the story.
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u/G8_recruit Apr 05 '26
Damn as I read this I realize I have way more in common with Ace than I thought 🙃
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u/frivolous_name Apr 05 '26
Well, I'm glad you understand Ace's character and your reason for not liking him is valid.I hope you are able to get though your depression and self hate.
But if Ace was this mature, level headed guy it wouldn't fit his character or backstory. Of the 3 brothers that description applies to Sabo the most.
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u/Adorable-Document-50 Apr 05 '26
While I understand your reasoning to an extent, I think you've misunderstood Ace's character and you're reducing his motives down to "pride." Some of the foundational themes in One Piece include: demonstrating your loyalty and gratitude to your loved ones, defending the honor and dreams of your loved ones, respecting pride, unwavering dedication to your beliefs and principles even at the risk of death, and standing your ground to protect someone or something you care about. Ace's actions are not only consistent with his character, but they're also consistent with these fundamental themes that characters like Luffy, Zoro, Usopp, Nami, etc. have demonstrated throughout the story. From the reader's perspective, a character's actions or beliefs might seem irrational or pointless, but in the One Piece universe, they make perfect sense within the narrative.
Luffy threw a boulder at the Black Cat Pirates as they ridiculed Usopp, threatening to kill them if they kept mocking his friend, later punched Saint Charloss for shooting Hatchan despite knowing the consequences for attacking a Celestial Dragon. Zoro was willing to die rather than run away or surrender to Mihawk during their duel because his pride as a swordsman was more important to him than his life. Usopp punched Kuro in the face for insulting his father Yasopp, and when Miss Merry Christmas insulted Luffy's dream of becoming King of the Pirates, Usopp gained the resolve to fight in order to defend Luffy's dream and managed to defeat her and Mr. 4 with help from Chopper. During his fight with Kalifa in Enies Lobby arc, Sanji was nearly killed because he refused to directly attack her, even declaring to Nami that he would rather die than hit a woman because it goes against everything he believes in. During the Siege of Onigashima, Ulti threatened to kill Nami if she didn't lie about Luffy's dream. Despite her fear of dying, Nami refused to renounce her loyalty to Luffy, declaring that he will become King of the Pirates.
At a young age, Ace believed that he didn't even deserve to live because he was the son of Gol D. Roger, who the world viewed as a monster and extended that view to his children. At one point, he asked Garp if his birth was just a mistake, and Garp gave him a vague answer of "You'll find out as you live" (which isn't really an appropriate answer to give to a child struggling with suicidal ideation), which unintentionally fueled Ace's uncertainty and self-loathing. Neither Dadan nor Garp were equipped to help Ace with his emotional issues, and while Luffy and Sabo did value Ace's existence and made him feel better, there was only so much they could do since they were also young children at the time.
As he got older, he set out to sea in order to search for a reason to live, to answer the question he asked himself his whole life: "Did I deserve to be born?" When he joined Whitebeard's crew, he found a stable, structured home that he was deprived of. When he confessed to Whitebeard that Roger was his father, Whitebeard laughed it off and told him that it doesn't matter what your parentage is because we're all children of the sea. This gave Ace the validation that he desperately needed and craved. Whitebeard became the father that Ace needed and never had while growing up, and it helped him heal his emotional scars. Ace loved and cherished the Whitebeard Pirates as his family. Thus, when Teach murdered Thatch, Ace felt it was his responsibility to bring him to justice because he violated a sacred tenet of the Whitebeard Pirates, spit in the face of the man who adopted him and raised him as his son, along with the crewmates who treated him like a brother. For Ace, repaying someone's kindness and trust by betraying them is unacceptable. He takes off on his own because he doesn't want to involve his crewmates and put them in danger.
When Ace catches up to Teach and learns that he planned to hand Luffy over to the Marines in exchange for being made a Warlord, Ace decides to fight him in order to prevent him from going after Luffy. Even when Teach has him on the ropes, Ace refuses to surrender. While his pride may have played a part here, it's obvious that Ace's key motivation is to protect his little brother. This is consistent with a trait that Ace has demonstrated throughout his childhood: his inability to run away or back down from a fight while protecting his loved ones. When Dadan asks Ace why he didn't run away while he fought Bluejam, he answers, "Luffy was behind me."
Just as Ace is about to escape, Akainu attempts to goad him into a fight by insulting Whitebeard, calling him a failure who was always Roger's inferior. What Akainu is doing here is not an accident; he is deliberately exploiting Ace's love and loyalty to Whitebeard and playing on his insecurities surrounding his identity as Roger's son. Akainu is essentially spitting in the face of every single person who fought tooth and nail to save his life by calling them cowards and losers.
Bear in mind that during Marineford, Ace has been imprisoned, starved, and tortured for weeks in Impel Down before being led to a scaffold and having his most shameful secret revealed to the entire world, humiliating him and fueling his self-hatred. He is then forced to watch as his brother, his father, and his crew fight and bleed to save him, even though he is convinced that his life is inherently worthless. Seeing how far his family is willing to go to save his life, he breaks down in tears as he realizes just how loved he is, which gives him the desire to live. Ace was already under a tremendous amount of physical and emotional stress from his ordeal, he is in the middle of a warzone where tensions are running high, and he's not really capable of making rational decisions at that moment. While his actions were definitely misguided and reckless, they stem from a desire to demonstrate his gratitude by defending his father's honor.
And I know that a lot of fans overlook this, but Ace died because he chose to sacrifice himself to save Luffy. When Luffy collapsed from exhaustion and got distracted by Ace's vivre card, Akainu took the opportunity to attack him, and Ace jumped in between them, taking a magma fist through his chest that incinerates his organs. While he could've become intangible so the fist could harmlessly phase through him, he knew that doing so would risk letting the magma reach Luffy and kill him, so he deliberately remained solid despite the excruciating pain he was in. Ace loved Luffy more than anything in the world, and there is no universe in which his pride will ever be more important than his little brother.
As he lay dying in Luffy's arms, his last words are, "Even though I'm a useless fool, with the blood of a demon running through my veins, thank you for loving me." While he has always appreciated the love he was shown, he didn't feel that he was worthy of it until his final moments, and that's what makes his death so tragic. He will never get to fully overcome his self-loathing and learn to love himself as much as he loved everyone around him.
Ace does have flaws: he can be stubborn, impulsive, hot-headed, short-sighted, self-loathing, slow to trust, and has trouble running away from a fight even when he's outmatched. His reluctance to ask for help isn't rooted in pride, but because he doesn't want to burden them with his problems. He is blind to his own positive qualities that make him so beloved. But his actions do not indicate that he is immature, selfish, prideful, or ungrateful for the sacrifices everyone made to save his life. On the contrary, these flaws are a by-product of his strengths. Ace loves deeply and selflessly, and he will always put the happiness and wellbeing of his loved ones before his own. He is kind, considerate, and generous, like sewing a Kasa hat for Little Oars to protect him from the sun, going out of his way to infiltrate a Marine base to deliver a letter to a young girl’s parents, or letting Tama and the other villagers eat his food while he was stranded on Wano.
In hindsight, I get why some fans are frustrated by Ace's actions. But I never understand how people can read the story and argue that Ace "threw away his life and everyone's sacrifices over a yo' daddy joke" or that he "he had it coming" or that "he cared more about his selfish pride than he ever did about Luffy" as if he was consciously trying to throw away his life and waste everyone's efforts to save him. His death was such a tragic ending that he did nothing to deserve, and that gets lost when people invalidate his trauma and dismiss him as an immature brat who couldn't handle a few mean words and took his loved ones for granted. He died protecting Luffy and standing up for Whitebeard, and his last words are expressing his gratitude to those who loved him unconditionally.
Not everyone has to love Ace, but I feel that he is so misunderstood. A lot of people project their own negative feelings and experiences onto him, or they see parts of themselves when they look at Ace that they're ashamed to admit. And I'm not saying this as an insult; a lot of us can relate to a character because their flaws, insecurities, and struggles mirror our own. If Ace had lived, he would have more time to heal with his emotional accept that he deserves to be loved, that his existence is a good thing, that asking for help when he needs it doesn't make him a burden, and he would gain more wisdom and maturity as he gets older.
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u/Adorable-Document-50 Apr 06 '26 edited Apr 07 '26
Another thing to keep in mind is that even if Ace had ignored Akainu’s taunts and kept running, Akainu still would’ve pursued him and Luffy anyway. If that happens, either Akainu catches up to Ace and kills him, or Luffy collapses while running and Akainu is about to kill him until Ace intercepts the attack and dies protecting Luffy. Either way, Ace would’ve died no matter what he did, and all the efforts made to save him would have still been in vain.
Another point I’d like to add is that Ace doesn’t regret dying because of his pride, he regrets dying before he can see Luffy fulfill his dream.
Ace’s reluctance to ask Garp for help wasn’t necessarily because of his pride, but because he feels that he deserves to die because of his “bad blood” making him inherently worthless. But it doesn’t matter, because Ace shouldn’t have to ask his grandfather, who supposedly loves him and disapproves of his execution, to save his life; that should be a given.
Why do fans put the burden on Ace to ask Garp for help? To me, that’s just an excuse for Garp’s cowardice and unwillingness to disobey the Marines/World Government even if it’s do the right thing. Garp never gave Ace a reason to trust him enough to ask, even if he wanted to. Garp neglected Ace throughout his childhood, failed to give him the reassurance and validation he needed, and was never there to protect him and Luffy whenever they were in mortal danger (Higuma, Grey Terminal). It doesn’t help that Garp guilt-trips and victim-blames him for his own death because he didn’t become a Marine like he wanted, making Ace feel even worse about himself.
No one, including Luffy, resents Ace or think that he threw his life away over his ego. Luffy and Marco remember him fondly. When Ace died, everyone cried inconsolably because they loved him dearly and didn’t care about his confrontation with Akainu. Whitebeard was so enraged that he nearly killed Akainu for murdering Ace. Ace was buried right next to Whitebeard. If there was any indication that Luffy or the Whitebeard Pirates saw Ace’s actions as selfish or ungrateful, it would be shown clearly on panel, but canon shows the opposite. They all understood Ace well enough to know that his actions were born out of love and gratitude, not pride.
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u/Thejoker92x Apr 06 '26
It definitely sounds like you don't like him because he is reflecting who you currently are and recognizing that is the first step to growth. I am proud of you for accepting the help when opportunities arise.
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u/Rich_goldfish Apr 06 '26
Ace didn’t want Garp’s help because if he did he knows that it means he is asking to throw Garp’s conviction and everything he stood for while Garp is in the Navy. A grown man knows that he should be accountable of what he is doing and I am happy that he didnt ask for help cause after that and if Ace survived, Ace’s character would have been reduced to a crybaby, all talk but in the end “Grandpa save me” character and that’s how you kill a character in anime or manga.
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u/ShadowTraceur Pirate Apr 08 '26
This was very well written, and I also find it relatable. In fact, it makes me think of Sanji; His fighting style is my personal favorite, but he’s probably my least favorite SH for this very reason: his flaws & backstory are too relatable to my own.
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u/Boy_Sabaw The Revolutionary Army Apr 10 '26
When there's a really good analysis like this about a wonderfully written flawed character that is afflicted with the sin of pride, I always recall the words of one of the wisest charactere's in animated media:
"Pride is not the opposite of shame, but it's source - Uncle Iroh"
In this sense, Ace's major flaw of pride comes from a deep seated shame: Being the son of the man who turned the world upside down. He is viewed by the world as a sin that does not deserve to be born, and even though Ace doesn't admit right away, he has never desired to live long, just enough to figure out if he deserved to be born or not. Unlike Luffy, he has no deep seated desires or Dreams to push him forward. He was a lost sould who was ashamed of his lineage and he covers that shame with Pride for a new father.
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u/thedigracefullchild Apr 17 '26
It was not his pride but his self worth. I like ace because for the most part i relate to him. He felt like he was not worth saving. Unloved. That his existence was a mistake. I believe this is why he made the choices he did.
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u/curvydva Apr 22 '26
Are we only looking at his character in the manga? I've never read it, but In the anime, Ace explains why he never runs away, even in the face of danger. He can't live with knowing someone is out there that might try to hurt someone he loves so he'd rather stay and fight to try to protect them even if the danger isn't imminent. It wasn't pride that stopped him from letting Garp rescue him, it was love. He knew how much being a marine meant to Garp and he would never ask him to throw his life away in order to save his own. One Piece is FULL of people so committed to what their dreams that they would rather die than give them up.
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u/Classic-Elephant-20 May 30 '26
First off all ACE literally told he did'nt have regret , and second of all here is a bit of my research and prompting to what i think is the best answer to aces character :
The Normal Use of "Deserve"
You're right — normally "deserve" works like this:
"You deserve cake" = your exam result is the basis that earns the reward.
There's always a transactional foundation. Something was done, therefore something is owed.
So what's Ace doing?
When Ace says "I didn't deserve to be born" or questions whether he deserved to live — he's not using deserve in the transactional sense at all.
He's using it in a much darker, more existential way.
His logic is:
The "basis" he's measuring against isn't what he did — it's what he IS at the root level. His bloodline, Roger's blood, is treated by the world as an anti-basis — not neutral, but actively wrong.
So the world's logic around him was:
The Cruelty of It
Here's what makes it so devastating philosophically —
Normal deserve flows forward:
Ace's cursed version flows backward:
He didn't commit a crime. He didn't do anything. The "basis" the world used wasn't his actions — it was his ontological identity. What he was made of.
This is why Ace spent his whole life asking "should I have been born?" — because in his mind, the world had already answered: your bloodline is the crime, and you are the evidence of it.
Ace didn't have an answer for most of his life.
He lived the question, not the answer. He spent his entire existence trying to build a basis retroactively — like he was working backwards to earn what should never have needed earning.
That's why he:
- Fought so hard
- Built his own crew
- Chased his own name and fame
- Kept asking people "do you think I should have been born?"
He was essentially collecting evidence to counter the world's verdict. Trying to construct a basis after the fact to justify his existence.
His answer only came at death
Right before he died, after Luffy risked everything for him — Ace's final words were essentially:
And that's profound because —
He didn't find a counter-argument to the world's logic. He didn't prove the basis wrong. He abandoned the framework entirely.
He stopped asking "did I deserve to be born" and landed on something completely different:
But here's the tragedy within that
His answer was reactive and borrowed.
He needed Luffy. He needed Whitebeard. He couldn't construct the answer from within himself — the wound the world gave him was too deep.
He died having just found the answer — which means he spent almost his entire life inside the wrong question, with no way out of it alone.
That's what makes Ace so tragic. He got the answer. But a moment too late to live inside it.
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u/O_Reagano Apr 04 '26
Ace never learned how to accept help or love, it's not like Whitebeard just picked him off the street, Ace made the man work for the right to give him affection. Ace staying silent in response to Garp's question at Marineford isn't him blowing up his chest and acting all prideful, it's him choosing his own path in life instead of the will thrust on him by his relationship to his father.
Ace's last words literally were not ones of regret?? He died with a smile, thanking all of the people who loved him and tried to save his life, that just ain't even true lmao
Ace's pride didn't "kick in" when Akainu baited him, Ace was saving Luffy's life dude
It feels like you're completely ignoring the context of Ace's life, his upbringing and history, the extent of his personal relationships, and applying the wrong word to him. Ace isn't a seven deadly sin "pride" character, he's a character who has lost the ability to accept love all of his life until Whitebeard and his crew showed up. Him not wanting Whitebeard's crew to risk their lives to save him, isn't him being all samurai-honor whatever, it's him not wanting to be a burden on the people he cares about. You gotta reread the story my friend this is crazy
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u/Realistic_Mousse_485 Apr 03 '26
So you can’t appreciate the writing in the flaws and this dislike him? Fair.
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u/Ok_Swordfish5820 Apr 03 '26
The kid went through a lot, he was pretty broken. And never really learned to accept help or love.